WD is out of his depth

[alfstonker]

11 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Lucky Willie Penguin's just fired their head coach.

No it's lucky Canucks.

Is Johnston not the guy half of CDC wanted here? 

Luckily TL and JB "out coached and out managed" CDC again. If Johnston couldn't get the Penguins moving there is absolutely no chance he would have got what Willie has got out of this team, not in our stage of transition. (not to mention the horrendous injuries)

[ice orca]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

No it's lucky Canucks.

Is Johnston not the guy half of CDC wanted here? 

Luckily TL and JB "out coached and out managed" CDC again. If Johnston couldn't get the Penguins moving there is absolutely no chance he would have got what Willie has got out of this team, not in our stage of transition. (not to mention the horrendous injuries)

Willie would have suffered the same fate as Johnston if he was in Pitsburgh. Johnston was a scape goat to cover up the crap, he is a very good coach that had them playing a good d-game. Rutherford is the sole blame for how that team is performing with the moves he made, Kessel being the main culprit. That guy is the biggest coach killer in the league s well as destroying the room.

[alfstonker]

10 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Willie would have suffered the same fate as Johnston if he was in Pitsburgh. Johnston was a scape goat to cover up the crap, he is a very good coach that had them playing a good d-game. Rutherford is the sole blame for how that team is performing with the moves he made, Kessel being the main culprit. That guy is the biggest coach killer in the league s well as destroying the room.

It's funny how convenient it is to blame the GM for Johnston's performance and yet few here, saw how Gillis was ruining the fine coach we had in AV.

I'm not saying you haven't got a point (not so much of a scapegoat as a stop gap) but let's not forget who he had to work with. Kessel by the way is a good player if used to his strengths. Willie could only dream about the Pens roster.

Bennet, Bonino Cole Crosby Cullen, Fluery, Hornqvist, Kessel, Kunitz, Letang, Maatta, Malkin, Perron, Scuderi, Sprong. That is a hell of a roster.

[RUPERTKBD]

14 hours ago, BUCKFIFTY said:

As for Edler and Hamhuis - if they've been injured in past - they still may rely on pain relief meds.

When you take those meds may effect how consistent a player appears on ice.

Maybe they want to look at timing of any pain relief if they require it.

Lucid beats injured anyday. End the turnovers and increase reaction time.

 

Something to keep in mind. May explain Edlers dazzling intelligence mixed with WTF?

And Hamhuis knows hockey better than he's been playing it.

 

It's a possibility I suppose, but I've played well over 1000 games in my lifetime and I can tell you for a fact: Some nights you're feeling it and some nights you just can't seem to do anything right.

What tends to happen with the CDC whipping boys is that when they have a great night, people will wonder "why can't he play like that all the time". Then they'll watch the remainder of his games with a jaundiced eye, noticing only the negative aspects of his play and before you know it, the consensus is that the player has been "brutal" all season, with the exception of those few nights where he played exceptionally.

1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

No it's lucky Canucks.

Is Johnston not the guy half of CDC wanted here? 

Luckily TL and JB "out coached and out managed" CDC again. If Johnston couldn't get the Penguins moving there is absolutely no chance he would have got what Willie has got out of this team, not in our stage of transition. (not to mention the horrendous injuries)

It was John Stevens for me, but I wasn't one of those who were disappointed with Willie then and I am not now.

What I didn't want was another recycled, old school coach like Torts. I think Willie is doing fine with the lineup he has to work with.

[lmm]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It's a possibility I suppose, but I've played well over 1000 games in my lifetime and I can tell you for a fact: Some nights you're feeling it and some nights you just can't seem to do anything right.

What tends to happen with the CDC whipping boys is that when they have a great night, people will wonder "why can't he play like that all the time". Then they'll watch the remainder of his games with a jaundiced eye, noticing only the negative aspects of his play and before you know it, the consensus is that the player has been "brutal" all season, with the exception of those few nights where he played exceptionally.

It was John Stevens for me, but I wasn't one of those who were disappointed with Willie then and I am not now.

What I didn't want was another recycled, old school coach like Torts. I think Willie is doing fine with the lineup he has to work with.

I agree with your assessment of the Canuck whipping boy. It has been like that for a long time.

But I wonder how far from an Recycled Old School Coach Willie really is.  I looked at Stanley cup coaches, both winners and losers over the last 20 years. Willie is currently older than all but 2. Scotty, lets not compare, and Bryan Murray.  Willie is just getting started in the NHL when many of his contemporaries already have cups and are getting out of coaching.

While I don't want this to be an agist rant, there are some similarities between Willie and Torts. Three times in the last 2 1/2 seasons the Canucks have started a goalie 20 straight games, once by Torts and twice by Willie, Torts over-played the Sedins and Willie is doing the same. It worked well for him last game but we know come January they will tire.

Then there is his slow learning curve, as seen in OT. Again Willie relies on his older players while younger coaches rely on younger players. There is no reason an older coach can't do well in the NHL but recent history says they don't.

[Salmonberries]

Why can't Willie D turn **** into gold with this rag tag group like he did for us last year? Where's that old 2014-2015 Willie D magic gone? Fire Willie D!

[MJDDawg]

Willie can't turn chicken sh#t into chicken salad.

[SuperReverb2]

39 minutes ago, MJDDawg said:

Willie can't turn chicken sh#t into chicken salad.

Yeah but he can bloody well play who's supposed to be the future of this team instead of relying on who are the "has beens"of this team. Boring, predictable, and so old. It's just crap hockey when you're trying to coach your team not to loose instead of trying to coach them to win. 

[oldnews]

I see this has floated to the top of the bowl again.

 

[aqua59]

10 hours ago, SuperReverb2 said:

Yeah but he can bloody well play who's supposed to be the future of this team instead of relying on who are the "has beens"of this team. Boring, predictable, and so old. It's just crap hockey when you're trying to coach your team not to loose instead of trying to coach them to win. 

I agree with you but we also have to remember the huge injection of youth into this line up, they can't be blamed for the "has bins" of this team. I know you're not blaming them. You are right about the team being boring, predictable and old but lets qualify that as the  old core.

I think the notion of keeping older players around to disciple the young up and comers is a great idea but has fallen short in Vancouver because they kept too many of the old core. Partly by choice and partly by contractual circumstance. Gills made some great moves but his unforgiving NTCs will haunt his legacy. Meanwhile it haunts this present management group.

How can the future players get better if they're not aloud to play more minutes?  You along with many others point that obvious trait of WD out. It concerns me too.

No one has ever stated that WD is a poor coach, but coaching poorly. He too has had to make an adjustment to the NHL level as some of his players have and he like his players are not adjusting too well in my eyes. 

I can see his frustrating body language every time there's a goal or bad penalty. He's frustrated because they're not getting his message and employing it. Doesn't make him a bad coach but it does show me some disconnect between the coach and the message. Not so much the players turning on the coach.  I don't think Vancouver has that kind of room to let that happen.

Management is in tough right now too. How long do you keep a coach in charge of your future players when as  pointed out when they're not being played enough to take learning strides?

As mentioned so many times fans will understand losing with youth but not accept losing with the same old stale core. Simply stated there's too many old guys on this team. Not only that this group of old core members lack jam. Yet the coach reverts back to the old guys. He's starting to show he's an old guy by doing that making him part of the problem.

WD can't commit to keeping a group of young players then not play them. We can all see it and it's failing. It looks like he can't see it.

When was the last time a core older player has been benched? With what I call inert players like Higgens and Burrows still playing regularly and producing nothing it makes me wonder what WD is thinking?

I think that management knows they won't get much for either player, maybe a pittance from a playoff run team but little else. They have become close to worthless players on the trading block and here in Vancouver. WD needs to sit these guys. What happens to them is management's problem. WD has to show some jam himself and bench this pair in favor of youth.

[WHL rocks]

On 11/12/2015 at 1:46 PM, alfstonker said:

I read them, they were bollocks!  - happy?

You are the typical bandwaggoner imo. When things go wrong you don't allow yourself to see ANY mitigating circumstances. We are blooding rookies, our two second season rookies are going through a slump, we have had injuries to virtually every one of our key players except the Twins and Edler. Now when we are getting some guys back. 

Bo and Baertschi are playing better, McCann is getting more used to the physical side of the NHL and Biega seems to have filled a big hole in the D we look like we still might achieve something this season ( Hammer gets hurt) - and all you can say is "Plan the parade 2-0"

Come on, try at least to see the big picture, or are you just interested in tanking so that you can fantasise on what I top 3 pick MIGHT or might not do for us 2 years down the line. That way lies madness of the Oiler kind.

Which part of my post was bullocks?  Please quote thx.

Bo has what, 2 goals in 30 games? McCann looks like he's overwhelmed physically and has 1 goal in his last 20 games. He told the media that he can't sleep at night cus he keeps thinking about his play.

 If u think Baer and Biega are the saviours of this teams playoff chances then I really gotta stop paying attentions to your nonsensical posts.  

[Fred65]

Back to WD and the Canucks. First of all I don't think it's maybe quite as bad as it seems. Vcr has had a lot of road games in fact by the time they return from this jaunt they'll have taken care of almost half their road games for the season, a lot of time chnage road games too. Roughly speaking they will have travelled around 20-25,000 Km Some teams only do that in a year. It should provide dividends in the second half of the season ( hope any way ) The youngster will absorb small nuances of the game as time passes ie they should be better in the second half.

As to WD he's unfortunatley either a very stuborn man, arrogant, or simply too set in his ways. He's coached for I'm guessing 25+ years and has success all the way...regretfully his scheme of how the game is played, how you treat vets or rookies is not working at this level. He won't chnage just like a zebra will not chnage it's stripes...he is what he is

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

Which part of my post was bullocks?  Please quote thx.

Bo has what, 2 goals in 30 games? McCann looks like he's overwhelmed physically and has 1 goal in his last 20 games. He told the media that he can't sleep at night cus he keeps thinking about his play.

 If u think Baer and Biega are the saviours of this teams playoff chances then I really gotta stop paying attentions to your nonsensical posts.  

You need to come back sooner bud that was about Friday was it not? I'm too busy to backtrack through posts. As far as I can recall I said they were playing better, ideally that would include scoring lots of goals but not necessarily. 

I too think McCann struggles physically but he is definitely improving and he's a pretty slippery customer on the puck. That is what I meant. The longer we can hold our s---t together in the face of these injuries the likelier we will be to break out when the likes of Suter and Sbisa finally come back and we get some home games. I've not given up yet.

If Baertschi continues to bed in and improve I think he may start scoring soon and that could really get him going. I make no apologies for whatever I may have said about Biega, to quote Willie "he's not just good, he's making a difference"

Why are so many of you people always looking for the downside?

[WHL rocks]

NO WD is not out of his depth.

He's lost his damn mind, 6-1 and Millsy still in the game. Get him out you dumb frack WD.....

Seriously I don't think WD lasts the road trip if things don't drastically change here..... It's Xmas and all so JB being the meat and potatoes type of guy might not want to do it before years end but I think he's going to have a hard time from ownership if he doesn't pull the trigger. 

The roster is not playoff caliber and we all know that but,

 There is no structure to this team's play. They should be playing the neutral zone trap at this point. This team has NO IDENTITY right now. When you have lemons you make lemonade. This team should be playing zone D, trap system and cover your part of the ice sheet. They can't kill penalties, they can't score on PP, they can't play team defense, WD doesn't know how to line match, he doesn't know when to pull the goalie,,,,,, what's left?

He seems like a good guy but some guys are meant to be Robin, not Batman.

I think Gulutzan takes over or they bring up Green soon. 

[King Heffy]

This guy has Weber playing the penalty kill.  Playing Weber when you have a healthy alternative alone should be grounds for immediate dismissal, but throwing him out on the PK?  Benning should fire him in the intermission.

 

I feel bad for Miller.

[24K PureCool]

At this point when it comes to Weber, I blame JB more than WD. JB's fault for not waiving the guy so that option is off the table.

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

At this point when it comes to Weber, I blame JB more than WD. JB's fault for not waiving the guy so that option is off the table.

WD could also stand up and say "I'm not playing that plug".  He has a healthy Pedan scratched and he still allows Weber to kill penalties.  This makes AV's affair with Rome seem tame by comparison.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

He won't get canned before Christmas. If Canucks don't finish the road trip off strong I wouldn't be surprised if mid jan he gone.

Currently Canucks sit 3 points up on the ducks. For last place in the west. but the ducks have 3 games in hand.

I'm think he's atleast here till season end. But it depends on how's my blow out games continue. 

In wd defense our d is horrible. Not just weber but everyone. We can't win a battle below the hash marks if our lives depended on it. 

[WTG]

Firing the coach would give this team a great excuse for the $&!# season.

 

But the problem comes from the top. Benning's acquired pieces just aren't good enough.

 

Dorsett was extended instead of Richardson (this move kills the PK). The Garrison for a 2nd killed our defensive depth. Instead of using that cap space to get another top 4 defenseman Benning decides to sign Sbisa. Makes no sense to give that guy a raise after a horrible season. When you think about it too, is Stanton really that much worse than Sbisa or Bartkowski. Sbisa and Bartkowski are equally bad. Stanton could come in and do what they do at half the price or more than half the price. We could have saved some major bucks if we just retained him instead of getting Bartkowski and resigning Sbisa.

 

The losing of Corrado really hurt. I mean is he really that much worse than Bartkowski, Weber, Sbisa? If he joins the team he would probably instantly be our 2nd best RHD after Tanev. He's only 22 too. Plenty of upside still. But we lost him because we are a cap team. And we are a cap team because Benning made dumb moves and overpaid for fringe assets instead of retaining cheap assets.

 

Change has to start at the top and Benning needs to go. Weisbrod too, that idiot can talk his way into any job even though he is absolutely $&!# at his job. Demote Benning to head scout. Fire Weisbrod out of a cannon. Hire competent people to figure out how to GM.

[WHL rocks]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

He won't get canned before Christmas. If Canucks don't finish the road trip off strong I wouldn't be surprised if mid jan he gone.

Currently Canucks sit 3 points up on the ducks. For last place in the west. but the ducks have 3 games in hand.

I'm think he's atleast here till season end. But it depends on how's my blow out games continue. 

In wd defense our d is horrible. Not just weber but everyone. We can't win a battle below the hash marks if our lives depended on it. 

 

Yes our D is horrible, I respect your hockey knowledge so I'll ask you, don't you think this team should have a defined system which concentrates on team defense? I feel we should be playing a wing lock or 1-2-2 system so this team gets an identity. What do you think.