Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[WeneedLumme]

13 minutes ago, gttxc said:

I hate to be contentions but there are very few who have actually written him off.  In fact, I can’t think of any at the moment.  

 

For some reason, criticizing or expressing disappointment means they are writing off the player.  This is obviously bullocks and creates a self perpetuating, magnified by the media, myth of insane and unreasonable fans.

 

 

You must be new to CDC. Quite a few posters have been determined to call OJ a bust, a wasted draft pick, proof positive of JB's incompetence. Over and over and over again.

[gttxc]

6 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

You must be new to CDC. Quite a few posters have been determined to call OJ a bust, a wasted draft pick, proof positive of JB's incompetence. Over and over and over again.

I usually see-picked too soon or should have taken someone else, which isn’t writing him off.

[WeneedLumme]

1 minute ago, gttxc said:

I usually see-picked too soon or should have taken someone else, which isn’t writing him off.

Calling him a bust or a wasted pick, is.

[BCNate]

33 minutes ago, gttxc said:

I hate to be contentions but there are very few who have actually written him off.  In fact, I can’t think of any at the moment.  

 

For some reason, criticizing or expressing disappointment means they are writing off the player.  This is obviously bullocks and creates a self perpetuating, magnified by the media, myth of insane and unreasonable fans.

 

 

My original response was referencing a post about how JB blew 2 top 10 picks.  

 

Read through some of this thread, the amount of times OJ is called a bust or wasted pick is crazy.  

[gttxc]

1 minute ago, BCNate said:

My original response was referencing a post about how JB blew 2 top 10 picks.  

 

Read through some of this thread, the amount of times OJ is called a bust or wasted pick is crazy.  

I don’t feel saying JB wasted 2 top 10 picks either is writing them off.  Maybe it’s just a difference in intreptation and I can leave it at that.  I wanted to make a point of people’s opinions being terribly misrepresented.  

 

As as far as reading through the thread- Do you know it there is a way the search a thread?  I want to actually figure this out haha.  I feel it’s very few who actually call him a bust and most of the reaction is to a few specific people or run away over reaction/gang mentality due to a misunderstanding.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

5 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

The same Garth Snow that most fans ridicule as having done such a bad job?

And Strome has played over 450 games at .5 pt per game rate so while not up to the standard, not really a bomb. They just shoved him into the league too soon and put too much pressure on him to "be the scoring threat", sound familiar? Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes maybe?

Well, to be fair, I just answered your question straight up.
 

You asked to name another GM from the past 10 years who’s blown 2 top-6 picks, and I gave you a guy with 3 blown picks in 4 drafts, who one who also was employed by the same team for a dozen years, including 4 more years as GM following his most recent blown pick.

 

And if we want to start splitting hairs about “blown picks,” like you’re doing with Strome, then Virtanen and Juolevi deserve the same benefit. 

[BCNate]

19 minutes ago, gttxc said:

I don’t feel saying JB wasted 2 top 10 picks either is writing them off.  Maybe it’s just a difference in intreptation and I can leave it at that.  I wanted to make a point of people’s opinions being terribly misrepresented.  

 

As as far as reading through the thread- Do you know it there is a way the search a thread?  I want to actually figure this out haha.  I feel it’s very few who actually call him a bust and most of the reaction is to a few specific people or run away over reaction/gang mentality due to a misunderstanding.

However you want to take it is up to you.  

 

In my eyes if you are calling OJ a wasted pick, yes, you are writing him off.  

[Westcoasting]

7 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

"You have to get bad before you can be good"

Tallon was hired as GM in 2005 - demoted in 2009

He had only three top ten picks, those named, so he was 100% on top ten picks, like most GM's are. Benning has had 5 top 7 picks, all could have been and should have been sure things, especially with all the data out there available to be looked at.

 

Name one other GM over the last 10 years that has blown two top 6 picks.

The data that showed Juolevi to be the best d prospect? Yeah i think Benning seen all that...that is why he was the highest pick.

[gttxc]

44 minutes ago, BCNate said:

However you want to take it is up to you.  

 

In my eyes if you are calling OJ a wasted pick, yes, you are writing him off.  

You mean “JB blowing 2 top 10 picks” right?  You’re doing exactly what I was talking about.  You’re changing what was said to suit your argument and making it sound more like “Joulevi is a bust” to the next guy.

[Iron_Gland]

When is a realistic timeframe for Olli to make the big team as a regular? I haven't been able to follow the farm team very closely the past few years (Work, Marriage, kid incoming, etc) but I'm hoping he can atleast be a poor mans Erhoff or something similar. Not top 10 pick good, but still very valuable to this team

[Kanukfanatic]

7 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Ya I guess so, he is way behind his peers though.

Be clear though, it is not his fault he was drafted WAY TOO high, Benning had all the information that most scouts, the one's paid to do the job, were high on Sergachev, he was up coming and Chyrchun had lost a little of his shine but was still highly skilled, it was attitude that soured him.

The thing Benning should do, if possible now, is package him to make the team better, maybe with Eriksson or something. He has reached the point where his potential has plateaued and been measured. If lucky he ends up like Gudbranson or Barker.

But all this is BECAUSE there was a mistake, a multimillion dollar mistake. One very good player can earn the team untold amount of money or at the very least assets which will help the future.

Your takes have been hillarious!!

 

Hahaha.....god I was laughing so loud.  Needed that after a hard day at work.  Thanks champ!  Some posters won't know you were just dycking around....so put a  next time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[Warhippy]

6 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

People take the wrong guy at the wrong time all the time.

 

Aaron Ekblad

Taylor Hall - EDM

Ryan Murray

Valerie Nichushkin

Nail Yakupov - EDM

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - EDM

Erik Johnson

Derrick Pouliot

Jesse Pulujarvi -EDM

Eric Gudbranson

 

 

And the list goes on...and on, and on....

If you want a REAL eye opener about poor drafting and bad management.

 

Go back to 2006.  Look at ONLY the top 10 drafting teams.  from 2006 to 2016 look who is consistently in the top 10 and look how many dead names there are.  it's actually unreal how 4-6 teams drafted that high for that long yet still did so poorly.

 

Here actually.  I'll run it down for everyone.  Since we're back to "blown picks" or potential misses.

 

2006:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

2007:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html

2008:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html

2009:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html

2010:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2010e.html

2011:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2011e.html

2012:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

2013:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2013e.html

2014:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2014e.html

2015:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2015e.html

2016:  http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2016e.html

 

If you look at that list.  You see teams like the leafs, Oilers, Columbus, Islanders, Phoenix and Florida as well as (Atlanta/Winnipeg) in the top ten no less than 5 times in a decade with almost all of them drafting top 5 or better at some point in time or another, in some cases numerous times.  While the Canucks drafted top 5 twice, top ten 4 times over their 4 years in/out of the playoffs.

 

It's incredibly shocking to see how many players just barely even approach Virtanen status let alone how many misses those teams had on such a consistent basis

Edited October 17, 2019 by Warhippy

[redhdlois]

 

[Canucks Curse]

juolevi's draft was actually  a very weak draft outside the top 15, one impact 2nd rounder (debrincat, maybe Girard) and really nothing to write home about from the entire rest of the draft at all, victor "meh" mete

 

My pick was tkachuk, I was surprised how Benning down played his aggressive style because he us essentially what we hoped Jake would be. 

[The_Rocket]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

I probably wouldn't call a solid two way, full time NHL player a miss, nor would I call a dman who had one of the best 20 year old seasons in Liiga history and who was one of the top rookie scorers in the ahl before injury a miss either.

Yeah I wouldn’t either. What I’m saying is if joulevi was taken 23rd overall and boeser was taken 6th overall, no one would be complaining. Ditto Jake and Demko. 
 

I really like jake and joulevi. While they may not be full value for their draft positioning, JB has found players later on in the draft who more than make up for the lost valur

[Mathew Barzal]

1 hour ago, redhdlois said:

 

Strange how much this contrasts to this Utica fans perspective. He's been posting clips and consistent updates game to game about Juolevi's shortcomings.

 

 

[Duodenum]

12 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

Strange how much this contrasts to this Utica fans perspective. He's been posting clips and consistent updates game to game about Juolevi's shortcomings

I tend to agree with the poster. Juolevi is skating in quicksand right now. His turning, especially, is below average at best. 

No surprise with tearing his ACL, but his skating needs to improve leaps and bounds before he's even ready for an NHL call-up. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Duodenum

[khay]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:43 PM, ItTakesAnArmy said:

"You have to get bad before you can be good"

Tallon was hired as GM in 2005 - demoted in 2009

He had only three top ten picks, those named, so he was 100% on top ten picks, like most GM's are. Benning has had 5 top 7 picks, all could have been and should have been sure things, especially with all the data out there available to be looked at.

 

Name one other GM over the last 10 years that has blown two top 6 picks.

Two of three top ten picks Tallon had were first and third overall picks. The other one was 7th overall, Jack Skille. So Tallon is 2-for-3 on top 7 picks. Hitting a homerun for a 1st overall pick is easy. Hitting a homerun on a 3rd overall pick is not too hard. Hitting a homerun on 23rd overall pick, 5th overall pick, or 7th overall pick is harder.

 

Easy. Garth Snow.

 

2014: Michael Dal Colle (5th overall)

2012: Griffin Reinhart (4th overall)

2011: Ryan Strome (5th overall)

 

Top 7 picks are nothing but a sure thing. JB may have missed on 2014 and 2016 drafts but he made up for it in the other drafts and picking well in the later rounds.

 

[higgyfan]

People need to be more realistic in their expectations for this young man.  His injury record and lack of playing in actual games in the past couple of years have hindered all aspects of his game.  I think he will take most of the season to regain his form.  Utica fans may not like what they're seeing (I do understand the frustration), but the only way for Olli to improve is by playing a lot of games with + TOI.

 

 

[khay]

23 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Garth Snow comes to mind:

 

2011: Ryan Strome 5th overall

2012: Griffin Reinhart 4th overall

2014: Michael Dal Colle 5th overall 

We made exact same post but you did it 23 hours before me

 

I think getting the right player with 5th or 6th overall is difficult due to there being many quality candidates. You really need to do a good job of scouting. And history shows that getting 5th or 6th overall is no easy task. 

 

2018: Zadina over Hughes. Detroit may have made a mistake there for Canucks gain.

2017: Glass vs Pettersson. Looking back, it took some guts from the Canucks to select EP because he was anything but a sure thing. A scrawny kid that only weighed 160 pounds and back then, he didn't quite have the shot that he has now. If anything, Glass looked like a sure thing. I'm the first to admit that I thought we were getting Glass.

2016: Juolevi over Tkachuk. This one hurts us. Tkachuk was a ahead of Juolevi in most rankings but we needed a defence and went with Olli. I think Olli can still have a good career but Tkachuk is already a quality NHLer. It doesn't help that OJ had so many injuries to contend with.

2015: Hanifin and Zacha were picked with 5th and 6th overall picks. Provorov, Werenski, Meier, and Raantanen were picked with 7 to 10th overall picks. Zacha is not even in the NHL anymore I think.

2014: Dal Colle (probably going to bust) and Virtanen over Ehlers and Nylander.

2013: The teams picking got the right player with Lindholm and Monahan.

2012: Same as 2012 (Rielly and Lindholm with 5th and 6th overall picks).

2011: Ryan Strome over Zibanejad and Scheifele. I remember Scheifele was actually a bit of a gamble pick by the Jets (could be wrong with this).

2010: Niederreiter and Connolly over Skinner.

2009: B. Schenn and OEL. Good picks.

2008: L. Schenn and Nikita Filatov. It wasn't a great draft but those two were picked ahead of Erik Karlsson, Tyler Myers, and Jordan Eberle. 

2007: Alzner and Gagner over Voracek (7th overall) and Couture (9th overall).

2006: Kessel and Brassard. Good picks.

 

 So 2006, 2009, 2012, 2013, and 2017, the GMs made good decisions but otherwise, they left a better talent on the board due to poor scouting or poor decision making. 5th or 6th overall picks are anything but a sure thing.