Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[ruilin96]

A lot of you brought up Dale Tallon always nailing his top 3 picks, that is not true. He nailed with Toews (3rd OA) and Kane (1st OA), however, he also drafted Cam Barker (3rd OA) and Erik Gudbranson (3rd OA) as well.

 

Edit: just checked, Cam Barker was not his pick, he was an assistant GM then.

Edited October 17, 2019 by ruilin96

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Duodenum said:

I tend to agree with the poster. Juolevi is skating in quicksand right now. His turning, especially, is below average at best. 

No surprise with tearing his ACL, but his skating needs to improve leaps and bounds before he's even ready for an NHL call-up. 

As I said in the summer/preseason, it's going to take a couple months, not weeks, for him to get his legs back under him.

Edited October 17, 2019 by aGENT

[ItTakesAnArmy]

So it is agreed then Garth Snow did a bad job. Since he and the entire Edmonton staff are the one's most commonly mentioned I take it there is consensus.

So the multitude found 2, TWO examples as bad as or worse than Benning over the 4 year period out of a possible 30+ opportunities.

Since Garth Snow got fired and the entire Edmonton staff has been fired and re-tooled that leaves Benning as what?

 

The play by play account, interesting.

 

Why is Benning the GM? Is it because he is supposed to be better than a fan? Other GM's? Is he supposed to be an exceptional evaluator of talent? Why is he paid millions? To be AVERAGE? And average isn't missing or taking the wrong player in the top 6 of the draft.

BTW on a lot of lists Sergachev over took Julievi in the final standings.

 

Mikhail Sergachev not only made a smooth transition to the OHL with the Spitfires, he was voted the best defenceman in the entire league. He excels in every single area of the game. He can skate, pass, shoot, has a physical element and very well may be the most complete blueliner available in the draft.

 

What makes this pick so bad is that there were so many after that excelled, that and how much JB insisted that OJ was going to be the cornerstone of the PP. JB missed that OJ's performance was a product of the rest of the team and that he had already reached his "mature" body.

 

I don't think he can even be traded now.

Edited October 17, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Gurn]

 

6 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

So the multitude found 2, TWO examples

dude, you asked for one other gm and people gave you two, now you want to change the goalposts. And you think you have proved something?

[ItTakesAnArmy]

1 hour ago, khay said:

We made exact same post but you did it 23 hours before me

 

I think getting the right player with 5th or 6th overall is difficult due to there being many quality candidates. You really need to do a good job of scouting. And history shows that getting 5th or 6th overall is no easy task. 

 

2018: Zadina over Hughes. Detroit may have made a mistake there for Canucks gain.

2017: Glass vs Pettersson. Looking back, it took some guts from the Canucks to select EP because he was anything but a sure thing. A scrawny kid that only weighed 160 pounds and back then, he didn't quite have the shot that he has now. If anything, Glass looked like a sure thing. I'm the first to admit that I thought we were getting Glass.

2016: Juolevi over Tkachuk. This one hurts us. Tkachuk was a ahead of Juolevi in most rankings but we needed a defence and went with Olli. I think Olli can still have a good career but Tkachuk is already a quality NHLer. It doesn't help that OJ had so many injuries to contend with.

2015: Hanifin and Zacha were picked with 5th and 6th overall picks. Provorov, Werenski, Meier, and Raantanen were picked with 7 to 10th overall picks. Zacha is not even in the NHL anymore I think.

2014: Dal Colle (probably going to bust) and Virtanen over Ehlers and Nylander.

2013: The teams picking got the right player with Lindholm and Monahan.

2012: Same as 2012 (Rielly and Lindholm with 5th and 6th overall picks).

2011: Ryan Strome over Zibanejad and Scheifele. I remember Scheifele was actually a bit of a gamble pick by the Jets (could be wrong with this).

2010: Niederreiter and Connolly over Skinner.

2009: B. Schenn and OEL. Good picks.

2008: L. Schenn and Nikita Filatov. It wasn't a great draft but those two were picked ahead of Erik Karlsson, Tyler Myers, and Jordan Eberle. 

2007: Alzner and Gagner over Voracek (7th overall) and Couture (9th overall).

2006: Kessel and Brassard. Good picks.

 

 So 2006, 2009, 2012, 2013, and 2017, the GMs made good decisions but otherwise, they left a better talent on the board due to poor scouting or poor decision making. 5th or 6th overall picks are anything but a sure thing.

There are good draft years and then the others, not so deep.

 

THAT IS WHY TRADING AWAY A 1rst round pick this year, even if it ends up in the 20's is such a bad decision. This year there is a good chance the Canucks squeak in because other teams WILL tank for better chances around the TDL, but Benning's job is still on the line, he is trading away the future to keep HIS job, how many other GM's traded away two draft picks let alone a 1rst and 3rd?

IMO the best that can happen for the team is they don't make it this year, select in the top ten and next year they will be a shoe in.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

1 hour ago, ruilin96 said:

A lot of you brought up Dale Tallon always nailing his top 3 picks, that is not true. He nailed with Toews (3rd OA) and Kane (1st OA), however, he also drafted Cam Barker (3rd OA) and Erik Gudbranson (3rd OA) as well.

 

Edit: just checked, Cam Barker was not his pick, he was an assistant GM then.

He had just traded for two additional 1rst round picks so Gudbranson was not an all or nothing. But again it was a relatively poor draft year, quite muddled. That happens in weaker years.

But Yaaa, got one.

[UticaHockey]

14 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

Strange how much this contrasts to this Utica fans perspective. He's been posting clips and consistent updates game to game about Juolevi's shortcomings.

 

 

A correction and some comments.  For clarification the writer of the Comets game recaps is not a Utica fan but rather a Canucks fan in Vancouver that watches Comets games on AHL TV and writes a blog about them.  I follow him on Twitter  @CodySevertson

 

My comments...I thought Juolevi played a very strong defensive game last night but with one major area of concern.  He blocked a ton of shots, played much more physical than last year and did a great job of taking away the passing and shooting lanes with his stick and overall good positioning.  It looked to me anyway that he thinks the game at a high level.

 

Now the concerning part....He is so slow and gets beat on the rush.  This may be a result of his knee surgery and his skating will improve over time but it is also the exact same thing that I saw a year ago well before his season ended with knee surgery.  If he was playing hurt last October then there is an explanation for his skating issues but if he was healthy a year ago and that was his skating baseline then there is reason to be concerned.  The GIF from the recap above is something I've seen over and over from Juolevi both this year and last.

https://streamable.com/u4hsv

 

 

[higgyfan]

26 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

There are good draft years and then the others, not so deep.

True

26 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

THAT IS WHY TRADING AWAY A 1rst round pick this year, even if it ends up in the 20's is such a bad decision.

 

Not really.  Looking at the Lightening's history of #20-30 picks uninspiring at best. 

26 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

 

This year there is a good chance the Canucks squeak in because other teams WILL tank for better chances around the TDL, but Benning's job is still on the line, he is trading away the future to keep HIS job, how many other GM's traded away two draft picks let alone a 1rst and 3rd?

Speculation.

 

26 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

IMO the best that can happen for the team is they don't make it this year, select in the top ten and next year they will be a shoe in.

Speculation. 

 

 

 

Virtanen is Bennings first draft pick as the new Canuck GM.  Hometown boy, usually scouted in the top 10 in a questionably weak draft. https://thehockeywriters.com/2014-nhl-draft-rankings-the-next-ones-final-top-210/

 

Joulevi was usually scouted in top 6, ahead of other dmen. 2016 NHL Draft Final Consensus Rankings.  It's hard to figure out Olli's true capacity, due to the injuries.  Most would agree that Tketchup would have been a better pick.

 

Nobody can argue against his other 1st rounders; Brock, Pete, Quinn and we'll see about Podk.

 

[Fred65]

Here's the thing. Just stick to facts rather than fill the forum with speculation and wild dreams. Right now OJ sucks despite being a high high pick. Good teams can't afford to have bad picks

[Darius]

1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

There are good draft years and then the others, not so deep.

 

THAT IS WHY TRADING AWAY A 1rst round pick this year, even if it ends up in the 20's is such a bad decision. This year there is a good chance the Canucks squeak in because other teams WILL tank for better chances around the TDL, but Benning's job is still on the line, he is trading away the future to keep HIS job, how many other GM's traded away two draft picks let alone a 1rst and 3rd?

IMO the best that can happen for the team is they don't make it this year, select in the top ten and next year they will be a shoe in.

 

Calgary Flames traded a first rounder and 2 second rounders for Dougie Hamilton, then they basically did the same, a first and two seconds for Hamonic.

 

I find it hard to believe that Calgary had a better core than the Canucks do when they made that initial trade for Hamilton.  They had missed the playoffs 5 out of the previous 6 years too. 

 

Sometimes instead of mopping the floor of the basement, year after year, you have to take a risk and trade some good asset(s) to fill team holes.  

 

Calgary has put together a pretty good team by making some high cost trades.

 

 

[Snapshot85]

16 hours ago, The_Rocket said:

Yeah I wouldn’t either. What I’m saying is if joulevi was taken 23rd overall and boeser was taken 6th overall, no one would be complaining. Ditto Jake and Demko. 
 

I really like jake and joulevi. While they may not be full value for their draft positioning, JB has found players later on in the draft who more than make up for the lost valur

You know when you go to the casino.... you see all those people crowded around the roulette table... putting diffrent amount of chips on diffrent numbers

... in truth..... That's the NHL draft.... some win some lose....the kids are 18 years old......its just a best  guess.

But dont kid yourself it's all a gamble...

[Snapshot85]

3 hours ago, khay said:

We made exact same post but you did it 23 hours before me

 

I think getting the right player with 5th or 6th overall is difficult due to there being many quality candidates. You really need to do a good job of scouting. And history shows that getting 5th or 6th overall is no easy task. 

 

2018: Zadina over Hughes. Detroit may have made a mistake there for Canucks gain.

2017: Glass vs Pettersson. Looking back, it took some guts from the Canucks to select EP because he was anything but a sure thing. A scrawny kid that only weighed 160 pounds and back then, he didn't quite have the shot that he has now. If anything, Glass looked like a sure thing. I'm the first to admit that I thought we were getting Glass.

2016: Juolevi over Tkachuk. This one hurts us. Tkachuk was a ahead of Juolevi in most rankings but we needed a defence and went with Olli. I think Olli can still have a good career but Tkachuk is already a quality NHLer. It doesn't help that OJ had so many injuries to contend with.

2015: Hanifin and Zacha were picked with 5th and 6th overall picks. Provorov, Werenski, Meier, and Raantanen were picked with 7 to 10th overall picks. Zacha is not even in the NHL anymore I think.

2014: Dal Colle (probably going to bust) and Virtanen over Ehlers and Nylander.

2013: The teams picking got the right player with Lindholm and Monahan.

2012: Same as 2012 (Rielly and Lindholm with 5th and 6th overall picks).

2011: Ryan Strome over Zibanejad and Scheifele. I remember Scheifele was actually a bit of a gamble pick by the Jets (could be wrong with this).

2010: Niederreiter and Connolly over Skinner.

2009: B. Schenn and OEL. Good picks.

2008: L. Schenn and Nikita Filatov. It wasn't a great draft but those two were picked ahead of Erik Karlsson, Tyler Myers, and Jordan Eberle. 

2007: Alzner and Gagner over Voracek (7th overall) and Couture (9th overall).

2006: Kessel and Brassard. Good picks.

 

 So 2006, 2009, 2012, 2013, and 2017, the GMs made good decisions but otherwise, they left a better talent on the board due to poor scouting or poor decision making. 5th or 6th overall picks are anything but a sure thing.

I totally agree with your point. 

 

 

Just wanted to say though that although I love EP40 and I think hes the better player.... Glass is going to be a stud aswell.... I think hes got a legit shot at the Calder himself this year 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Snapshot85

[Camel Toe Drag]

25 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Here's the thing. Just stick to facts rather than fill the forum with speculation and wild dreams. Right now OJ sucks despite being a high high pick. Good teams can't afford to have bad picks

Being injured is not synonymous with sucking. Do you injure eggs in your spare time?

[Hairy Kneel]

Wow he got beat wide on that goal. (Posted just above) looks like he's only pushing off hard on one leg. Hopefully he strengthens out and pushes off better as the year goes on.

[khay]

49 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said:

I totally agree with your point. 

 

 

Just wanted to say though that although I love EP40 qnd I think hes the better player.... Glass is going to be a stud aswell.... I think hes got a legit shot at the Calder himself this year 

I don't disagree. Glass is going to be good. And that's why JB should be praised for making the call to go with EP. EP's ceiling was so unclear at the time whereas people knew Glass as he played in the WHL. Glass looked like as sure a thing as there is to becoming an NHLer at that time and he will become a very good one. EP didn't look like a sure thing at all but now he has potential to become a perennial 100 pt scorer and potential to be an MVP of the league at some point.

 

 

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, khay said:

I don't disagree. Glass is going to be good. And that's why JB should be praised for making the call to go with EP. EP's ceiling was so unclear at the time whereas people knew Glass as he played in the WHL. Glass looked like as sure a thing as there is to becoming an NHLer at that time and he will become a very good one. EP didn't look like a sure thing at all but now he has potential to become a perennial 100 pt scorer and potential to be an MVP of the league at some point.

 

 

I see a lot of Kyle Turris in Glass. 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Here's the thing. Just stick to facts rather than fill the forum with speculation and wild dreams. Right now OJ sucks despite being a high high pick. Good teams can't afford to have bad picks

Fact: Right now, Juolevi has had to spend his last two offseasons rehabbing from injuries and due to those injuries he has only played 59 games since Jrs. 

 

Fact:  Athletes that suffer injuries which take away huge portions of training, practice and game time, usually regress.  Depending on the severity of the injuries and the amount of time away from the game, it can take a long while before the athlete returns to his prior level of play. 

 

Fact:  All NHL teams have had bad picks. 

 

IMO, given Olli's injury history, it is too early to consider him a bad pick; although he certainly is a pick with bad luck.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Fact: Right now, Juolevi has had to spend his last two offseasons rehabbing from injuries and due to those injuries he has only played 59 games since Jrs. 

 

Fact:  Athletes that suffer injuries which take away huge portions of training, practice and game time, usually regress.  Depending on the severity of the injuries and the amount of time away from the game, it can take a long while before the athlete returns to his prior level of play. 

 

Fact:  All NHL teams have had bad picks. 

 

IMO, given Olli's injury history, it is too early to consider him a bad pick; although he certainly is a pick with bad luck.

Excellent post.  I’d say OJ is still physically maturing too.  He might need a full season or more to develop.  He’s still very young.  It’s nice we don’t have the need to rush our young guys now.  Hoglander and Podz would be playing on some other NHL teams.  Let our young guys, unless they’re phenomenal like Petey and Hughes, mature into men before throwing them into the deep end.  

[mll]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I see a lot of Kyle Turris in Glass. 

His WHL coach Mike Johnston compares him to Johansen who he also had in Portland.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, mll said:

His WHL coach Mike Johnston compares him to Johansen who he also had in Portland.

Turris and Johansen are both solid NHL players.