Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[HorvatToBaertschi]

On 10/20/2019 at 8:40 AM, Fred65 said:

Before he was injured last season OJ  had the worse +/- in the AHL for a defenseman. I understand the argument about +/- but taken over a course of time ( useless game to game) it shows a tendency and in this case it's not good. I'm fascinated by way folks choose to ignore facts and cling to dreams. On Canuck Way, there was a bunch who couldn't grasp  Virtanen's failure, seems  like on this forum it's OJ. Every one wants him to do well ( including me ) but if you're a GM for instance, you need to plan and cover the spot for the future. I hope Rafferty, Teves, Woo or Rathbone can come through

Before he got injured last season, OJ did not play a single game with Demko. Hard to assess somebody’s defensive game (with a terrible stat btw), when they play behind some terrible goalies. 

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Before he got injured last season, OJ did not play a single game with Demko. Hard to assess somebody’s defensive game (with a terrible stat btw), when they play behind some terrible goalies. 

Plus minus is a team stat in many ways.  18 games into a season, playing injured in front of the back up goalies on a weak team while being a league rookie at 20 years old.  

 

Let's not look at his good offensive production in that span (team leading during those games) and only look at whatever negative evidence that supports a more conceived narrative that OJ is bad and JB was dumb to draft him. 

 

 

[Standing_Tall#37]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Plus minus is a team stat in many ways.  18 games into a season, playing injured in front of the back up goalies on a weak team while being a league rookie at 20 years old.  

 

Let's not look at his good offensive production in that span (team leading during those games) and only look at whatever negative evidence that supports a more conceived narrative that OJ is bad and JB was dumb to draft him. 

 

 

I don’t know why people are so hard on him. He’s gonna make the NHL and have a solid 300+ game career.... not to shabby for a 5th rd pick.

[Kootenay Gold]

14 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I don’t know why people are so hard on him. He’s gonna make the NHL and have a solid 300+ game career.... not to shabby for a 5th rd pick.

1st round pick... 5th overall.

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I don’t know why people are so hard on him. He’s gonna make the NHL and have a solid 300+ game career.... not to shabby for a 5th rd pick.

Exactly.  

 

Getting a solid top 4 d man at 5 is a decent draft.  Especially when you consider the team need.  OJ was the first d man drafted in the top 2 rounds by Vancouver since Yann Sauve. 

 

Had he been healthy last year, he would already be a fixture on our roster.  

[Fred65]

On 10/18/2019 at 1:16 PM, Ferlands_Head said:

I do not agree with McCann

 

At the time he was drafted McCann was ranked in the middle of the first round by most scouting services and as high as 12 he "fell" to us at 24. 

You must've had a crystal ball at the time if you thought Pastrnak was going to be a better prospect 

 

Well he's been traded twice and played with 3 teams in his short NHL career …… so far some one agrees with me 

[Fred65]

For those that throw out the +/- stat so flippantly …… Rafferty is a PLUS 8  so is that bad ?? 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

K I'm just reading through this last page here yesterday you said you "I'm not saying he's a success" "it could go either way".  Now today you are saying with an odd amount of certainty that he is a top 4 d-man etc etc.  I say odd just cause the way you worded it makes it seem like it has already happened....just chill.

 

And just FYI, not that it's super important but are you aware that Ville Heinola put up basically the same numbers as OJ in Liga as a 17 year old and now plays in the NHL as an 18 year old.  5"11 drafted 20th OA.  How does that work?  

The fact that you ignored Juolevi's injury says a lot about your objectivity of "facts"

 

Who's really to say that Juolevi wouldn't have made the Canucks team if he was healthy? Definitely not you. You've ALWAYS been against the Juolevi pick, and your bias still shines through.

[Fred65]

33 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

The fact that you ignored Juolevi's injury says a lot about your objectivity of "facts"

 

Who's really to say that Juolevi wouldn't have made the Canucks team if he was healthy? Definitely not you. You've ALWAYS been against the Juolevi pick, and your bias still shines through.

Yep, never liked the pick. Selected 5th O/A in the world and deplorable defensive skills and doesn't exactly shine as an offensive star either. This was a 5th O/A pick world wide … are you graspining that fact!, Servachek or McEvoy were far better choices then and now IMO to name but a couple. Good teams can't afford tp throw away top picks. A prime selection wasted. He might yet play but he's not going to be a dominant player. Think if we had chosen Servachek or McEvoy the difference this would make to this current team.

 

I'd argue Rafferty is ahead of Juolevi already and from the reports I've read maybe Rathbone too

Edited October 21, 2019 by Fred65

[Silky mitts]

58 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Yep, never liked the pick. Selected 5th O/A in the world and deplorable defensive skills and doesn't exactly shine as an offensive star either. This was a 5th O/A pick world wide … are you graspining that fact!, Servachek or McEvoy were far better choices then and now IMO to name but a couple. Good teams can't afford tp throw away top picks. A prime selection wasted. He might yet play but he's not going to be a dominant player. Think if we had chosen Servachek or McEvoy the difference this would make to this current team.

 

I'd argue Rafferty is ahead of Juolevi already and from the reports I've read maybe Rathbone too

People would probably take you a lot more seriously if you spelt McAvoy and Sergachev right .

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, Silky mitts said:

People would probably take you a lot more seriously if you spelt McAvoy and Sergachev right .

OK  Genuine mistake I thought his name was McEvoy. But in todays Politically correct world I suppose that's a death sentence. I'm guessing you're an elementary school teacher, can't step away from the job 

[joe-max]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Yep, never liked the pick. Selected 5th O/A in the world and deplorable defensive skills and doesn't exactly shine as an offensive star either. This was a 5th O/A pick world wide … are you graspining that fact!, Servachek or McEvoy were far better choices then and now IMO to name but a couple. Good teams can't afford tp throw away top picks. A prime selection wasted. He might yet play but he's not going to be a dominant player.

 

That's a myth that has been debunked a couple of times. I guess mainly in this and the Virtanen thread.

 

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Think if we had chosen Servachek or McEvoy the difference this would make to this current team.

 

I'd argue Rafferty is ahead of Juolevi already and from the reports I've read maybe Rathbone too

 

...but possibly no EP nor QH...

 

24 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

OK  Genuine mistake I thought his name was McEvoy. But in todays Politically correct world I suppose that's a death sentence. I'm guessing you're an elementary school teacher, can't step away from the job 

Not sure what this has got to do with anything...  but, generally speaking, more accuracy and less arbitrariness in a discussion certainly doesn't hurt your credibility and persuasiveness.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Yep, never liked the pick. Selected 5th O/A in the world and deplorable defensive skills and doesn't exactly shine as an offensive star either. This was a 5th O/A pick world wide … are you graspining that fact!, Servachek or McEvoy were far better choices then and now IMO to name but a couple. Good teams can't afford tp throw away top picks. A prime selection wasted. He might yet play but he's not going to be a dominant player. Think if we had chosen Servachek or McEvoy the difference this would make to this current team.

 

I'd argue Rafferty is ahead of Juolevi already and from the reports I've read maybe Rathbone too

The most successful team of the last decade, the Hawks, drafted Skille at 8 and a D man (I can't remember his name) at 3 while they were rebuilding.  It's okay to have misses, providing the hits compensate for those misses.  I think our hits are really good (Hughe's, Petey, Bess, Demko, etc.)  The core of elite young players is drafted (or traded for, but mostly drafted).  Ours looks really quite good, and we have a lot of young guys coming up soon too, who will supplement that young core.  We are in a good spot for now and the next decade.  

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm just trying to figure out,  is Ville Heinola a Liga legend, considering he put up the same points as Juolevi at 17 as opposed to 20.  It seems to be the go-to any time someone says something bad about OJ's game. 

 

And no I haven't always been against the pick.  I thought PLD was gonna be our guy and was happy with that.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Man I really liked Heinola at the draft. Would've been happy if we took him at 10th overall and I would've rather had him than Podkolzin. 

 

His season was incredible and he got no real love from scouts, although a knee injury could have played a part in that. 

[theo5789]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The most successful team of the last decade, the Hawks, drafted Skille at 8 and a D man (I can't remember his name) at 3 while they were rebuilding.  It's okay to have misses, providing the hits compensate for those misses.  I think our hits are really good (Hughe's, Petey, Bess, Demko, etc.)  The core of elite young players is drafted (or traded for, but mostly drafted).  Ours looks really quite good, and we have a lot of young guys coming up soon too, who will supplement that young core.  We are in a good spot for now and the next decade.  

Cam Barker

[J-P]

As long as OJ is healthy, plays most games and gets better for each game I for one am happy 

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm just trying to figure out,  is Ville Heinola a Liga legend, considering he put up the same points as Juolevi at 17 as opposed to 20.  It seems to be the go-to any time someone says something bad about OJ's game. 

 

And no I haven't always been against the pick.  I thought PLD was gonna be our guy and was happy with that.    

 

 

 

 

 

5th, close but not accurate.  Ville had 14 points in 34 games and OJ had 19 points in 38 games.  

 

Also, Ville could be a legend.  He is on the Jets and they know their Finnish players.  

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

Juolevi wouldn't be in the minus for +/- if the other team didn't score just as he was coming out of the penalty box...he couldn't be blamed for that one.

 

It was a bit surprising to see he wasn't ready to go for pre-season games, that was 6-7 months of rehab...I suppose he is going to take a bit to get up to speed.

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

5th, close but not accurate.  Ville had 14 points in 34 games and OJ had 19 points in 38 games.  

 

Also, Ville could be a legend.  He is on the Jets and they know their Finnish players.  

 

Heinola was 2 years younger than Juolevi was when he posted those number (draft year vs. draft +2 year).

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Heinola was 2 years younger than Juolevi was when he posted those number (draft year vs. draft +2 year).

Heinola playing in the NHL right after his draft year is amazing. He's going to be an awesome dman for the jets.  Even if OJ had never had a single injury, he probably wouldn't have made the NHL until d+3.