Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[McBackup]

It sucks that Juolevi is going to be forever connected to Tkachuk no matter how good he turns out to be, some fans can't let go. I'm still pretty convinced the reason they didn't take Tkachuk is the extremely high emphasis scouting has placed on character. I'm still okay with not picking him, as every time I watch him play I'm hoping someone runs him through the boards into the 15th row. Its really hard to cheer for a guy like that.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Bitter Melon said:

It sucks that Juolevi is going to be forever connected to Tkachuk no matter how good he turns out to be, some fans can't let go. I'm still pretty convinced the reason they didn't take Tkachuk is the extremely high emphasis scouting has placed on character. I'm still okay with not picking him, as every time I watch him play I'm hoping someone runs him through the boards into the 15th row. Its really hard to cheer for a guy like that.

OJ has the elite offence to be a 40 plus point D man, who plays 20 plus minutes.  That’s more valuable than Tkatchuk IMO

[MoneypuckOverlord]

2 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Oh, man.  
 

I don’t read hockey articles like I used to because of that exact reason.  

 

Thoughtless espousing of “the numbers” is a whole lot better at explaining what  happened than what is going to happen. 

Same

 

5 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Most prognosticaters  in 2017 had Middlestad ranked higher than Pettersson. Even JB described Middlestad as a very skilled centre. The difference was as I understand Ron Delorme really advocated for Pettersson. Vcr made out like bandits when they chose EP, but as I understand it was EP or CM depending on who was there.

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017-draft/2017-nhl-draft-rankings

 

Middlestad is still thought well of but hasn't fit well in the Buffalo system 

 It was ranking the best drafted players at that time. They had access to tons of information. Mittelstadt was trash in the 2018 season.  He’s in the ahl right now and pettersson is selected time his 2nd all star game.  

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Same

 

 It was ranking the best drafted players at that time. They had access to tons of information. Mittelstadt was trash in the 2018 season.  He’s in the ahl right now and pettersson is selected time his 2nd all star game.  

I can tell you this, I was at a luncheon where JB fielded question, pre 2017 draft. One person asked about Middlestad and JB stated that Middlestad was a very skilled centre. So I think it's fair to say that most on the business liked Middlestad. As seen in the site I listed some had him as high as 6 ( Bob MacKenie/TSN and Ryan Kennedy/THN ) the lowest had him ranked at 12th (Cory Pronman) ALL of them had him ranked higher than EP. Vcr made out like bandits with EP and good for them. The thing that put him ahead of EP was his size

[dpn1]

I liked seeing OJ play on the PK.  He looked good and played a solid game.  It was the best game I've seen him play from a positional stand point.  Closed his gaps well.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I can tell you this, I was at a luncheon where JB fielded question, pre 2017 draft. One person asked about Middlestad and JB stated that Middlestad was a very skilled centre. So I think it's fair to say that most on the business liked Middlestad. As seen in the site I listed some had him as high as 6 ( Bob MacKenie/TSN and Ryan Kennedy/THN ) the lowest had him ranked at 12th (Cory Pronman) ALL of them had him ranked higher than EP. Vcr made out like bandits with EP and good for them. The thing that put him ahead of EP was his size

Mittlestadt made a name for himself during this draft year, which is fine.  however I was just pissed they snubbed Pettersson probably they didn't want to give any Canuck any love.  You must be out of your mind if you think Mittlestadt is the best drafted prospect at that time.  

 

anyways that's just me

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Mittlestadt made a name for himself during this draft year, which is fine.  however I was just pissed they snubbed Pettersson probably they didn't want to give any Canuck any love.  You must be out of your mind if you think Mittlestadt is the best drafted prospect at that time.  

 

anyways that's just me

Excuse me where did I say he was the best drafted prospect ?   have I missed some thing. I simply stated the fact, he was well thought of by many of the pundits including JB. His highest ranking was 6th O/A how exactly does that make him the best. There was some talk as I recall that maybe the Canucks would take Glass. I'm ambivalent in this. I'm missing what your concern is

[higgyfan]

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Excuse me where did I say he was the best drafted prospect ?   have I missed some thing. I simply stated the fact, he was well thought of by many of the pundits including JB. His highest ranking was 6th O/A how exactly does that make him the best. There was some talk as I recall that maybe the Canucks would take Glass. I'm ambivalent in this. I'm missing what your concern is

I recall Mits being very highly though of by fans and scouts. He was never considered to be outside the top 10.  My thoughts were that JB wanted Makar, but was secretly keeping Pete as his backup.  A lot of Canuck fans like Glass and many pundits thought the team was going to select Glass.

 

Regarding OJ and the latest 'bust list'...I don't like to see young players on these kind of lists.  Guddy, Yaks and Reinhart I can get (except Guddy is still playing, so I don't think of him as a bust completely).  These players have had plenty of chances to reach their potential and it hasn't panned out.  The younger guys still have a chance to reach their dreams and should be given some time to do so.

[Fred65]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I recall Mits being very highly though of by fans and scouts. He was never considered to be outside the top 10.  My thoughts were that JB wanted Makar, but was secretly keeping Pete as his backup.  A lot of Canuck fans like Glass and many pundits thought the team was going to select Glass.

 

Regarding OJ and the latest 'bust list'...I don't like to see young players on these kind of lists.  Guddy, Yaks and Reinhart I can get (except Guddy is still playing, so I don't think of him as a bust completely).  These players have had plenty of chances to reach their potential and it hasn't panned out.  The younger guys still have a chance to reach their dreams and should be given some time to do so.

This stands up if we consider all draft picks make it with time, and that's not the case. Look at Lias Anderson with the Rangers. Taken 7th O/A in 2017 who has walked out on NY, Hartford actully, returned to EU and is likely destined to play in EU his career. There is other considerations such as can we get a pick for this guy before every one gives up on him. I tend to think it's coming to the "fish or cut bait" moment for OJ. He may turn out OK but then again he might not and you end up with nothing. I wouldn't want to be the guy to make that call

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

This stands up if we consider all draft picks make it with time, and that's not the case. Look at Lias Anderson with the Rangers. Taken 7th O/A in 2017 who has walked out on NY, Hartford actully, returned to EU and is likely destined to play in EU his career. There is other considerations such as can we get a pick for this guy before every one gives up on him. I tend to think it's coming to the "fish or cut bait" moment for OJ. He may turn out OK but then again he might not and you end up with nothing. I wouldn't want to be the guy to make that call

He’s 21, and has been injured (mostly) for two seasons.  IMO those injuries retarded his development, but have in no way affected his ceiling, which is a 40 plus point, 20 minute, elite puck moving, top 4 D man.  

[Westcoasting]

36 minutes ago, Alflives said:

He’s 21, and has been injured (mostly) for two seasons.  IMO those injuries retarded his development, but have in no way affected his ceiling, which is a 40 plus point, 20 minute, elite puck moving, top 4 D man.  

So similar to Dougie Hamilton? wow ambitious

[rekker]

58 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

This stands up if we consider all draft picks make it with time, and that's not the case. Look at Lias Anderson with the Rangers. Taken 7th O/A in 2017 who has walked out on NY, Hartford actully, returned to EU and is likely destined to play in EU his career. There is other considerations such as can we get a pick for this guy before every one gives up on him. I tend to think it's coming to the "fish or cut bait" moment for OJ. He may turn out OK but then again he might not and you end up with nothing. I wouldn't want to be the guy to make that call

You can't trade OJ simply because he is worth very, very little so why bother. Better off sticking it out and see if he can stay healthy. Hard to guess now where his ceiling is but one can almost say for sure if he can stay healthy he will at some point get a shot at the NHL. No way I would give him away for next to nothing, which is his worth, before you really even see what he is. 

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

He’s 21, and has been injured (mostly) for two seasons.  IMO those injuries retarded his development, but have in no way affected his ceiling, which is a 40 plus point, 20 minute, elite puck moving, top 4 D man.  

Sounds good but please explain to me the logic behind your thinking.. What leads you to think these rash projections will come true? No mention of injuries, he's been back for a while now and hasn't exactly shown any of the traits you're expecting. If he was a 5th round pick chnaces are he'd be in the press box like he was in Finland for a number of games, Salo sat him.

[Fred65]

22 minutes ago, rekker said:

You can't trade OJ simply because he is worth very, very little so why bother. Better off sticking it out and see if he can stay healthy. Hard to guess now where his ceiling is but one can almost say for sure if he can stay healthy he will at some point get a shot at the NHL. No way I would give him away for next to nothing, which is his worth, before you really even see what he is. 

Hey how about OJ for Middlestad who is also having his problems. I'm not sure if Buffalo would go for it but it's that sort of thing that might make sense or end up with a untradable player

[rekker]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Hey how about OJ for Middlestad who is also having his problems. I'm not sure if Buffalo would go for it but it's that sort of thing that might make sense or end up with a untradable player

I wish. OJ doesn't have that kind of value in my opinion. Not that Middlestad has shown much either but his resume is far superior. 

[Ray_Cathode]

4 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I recall Mits being very highly though of by fans and scouts. He was never considered to be outside the top 10.  My thoughts were that JB wanted Makar, but was secretly keeping Pete as his backup.  A lot of Canuck fans like Glass and many pundits thought the team was going to select Glass.

 

Regarding OJ and the latest 'bust list'...I don't like to see young players on these kind of lists.  Guddy, Yaks and Reinhart I can get (except Guddy is still playing, so I don't think of him as a bust completely).  These players have had plenty of chances to reach their potential and it hasn't panned out.  The younger guys still have a chance to reach their dreams and should be given some time to do so.

I have been quite critical of OJs defensive play (though I’m more concerned with health, fitness and skating issues), but in no way do I support writing this kid off. I believe he has just turned 22, and has been derailed by two seasons of injury. Since coming back from his latest injury, his play has visibly improved. A look at Rafferty is a look at what can happen in terms of developing defenceman even at 24.  Rafferty was nowhere near a point a game D in college, but now he is .... in the AHL - quite a lift in competition level from college. Rafferty has visibly improved and grown more confident through the entire season - though I do expect a slowdown as he approaches the maximum number of games he has ever played before. If Juolevi can manage to finish this season healthy and get in a full off-season of trading, I expect a big jump in play next year. Can he then be an NHL player? Why not? The hardest part of the game to teach is offence and transition (he appears to be strong in those aspects of his game) - defence can be learned. A healthy remainder of this season should yield marked improvements for next year. 

[mll]

23 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

From THN article^

When was that ever the expectations? I think most we're hoping for a good PMD #2 at his peak, and expecting a solid top 4 PMD whether thats first or second pair. 

Agree with DeNiro, crazy Burmistrov isn't on on the list. I think the Canucks had Burmistrov at #3 in 2010. Putting Juolevi on instead of him is crazy. 

Sergachev, Chychrun projected as top pairing Ds - Juolevi didn't project lower than them.  Ahead of the draft Benning gave an interview where he said he had one of the Ds project as a D1.  Juolevi was the 1st D taken.  

[Phat Fingers]

On 12/30/2019 at 12:51 PM, Gawdzukes said:

Ever since I've started watching him I've had serious questions about his understanding of how to pick up his check in front of the net and determine where and how to cover the cycle. I see him repeatedly leaving his post in front of the net and getting sucked out while an opponent is left wide open in the danger area. Similarly, I've seen him remain in front of the net, however, not really mark his check who still gets to puck and a chance on net(reminds me of a former player). 

 

Has anyone else noticed this or noticed if he has improved at all? I've only seen 2 games this year but these things are coachable.

 

Anyways. Go Juo Go. I really hope he makes it.

I don't think the mental lapses can be removed from the physical conditioning at OJ's level.  

 

The thing that allows Quinn Hughes to be effective at the NHL level is his insane stamina.  Part of this is his effortless skating, but not getting worn down physically keeps you sharper mentally as games and the season itself wears on.  

 

This also allows Hughes to expend more energy to recover from a mental lapse so win win.  

 

OJ needs both to be effective.  I believe he has the IQ already and as he physically gets closer to NHL regular level fitness the mental errors will drop off significantly.  

 

For opposite reasons Jake was impacted.  He had the physical strength and speed to impact the game but lacked stamina, conditioning and some IQ.  As he has improved his stamina and conditioning, the gaffes became less and less.  

 

My two bits for what it is worth.  

[Ray_Cathode]

Bit of trivia - both Rafferty and Juolevi in the top 8 rookie defenders in points - Rafferty number one, of course - and Juolevi missing eight games with injury.

[higgyfan]

39 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I have been quite critical of OJs defensive play (though I’m more concerned with health, fitness and skating issues), but in no way do I support writing this kid off. I believe he has just turned 22, and has been derailed by two seasons of injury. Since coming back from his latest injury, his play has visibly improved. A look at Rafferty is a look at what can happen in terms of developing defenceman even at 24.  Rafferty was nowhere near a point a game D in college, but now he is .... in the AHL - quite a lift in competition level from college. Rafferty has visibly improved and grown more confident through the entire season - though I do expect a slowdown as he approaches the maximum number of games he has ever played before. If Juolevi can manage to finish this season healthy and get in a full off-season of trading, I expect a big jump in play next year. Can he then be an NHL player? Why not? The hardest part of the game to teach is offence and transition (he appears to be strong in those aspects of his game) - defence can be learned. A healthy remainder of this season should yield marked improvements for next year. 

OJ will be 22yrs in May 2020.