whcanuck Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Hey guys I thought it'd be fun to see who your most overrated forward, defenseman and goaltender of all time is? And the same questions for underrated? For me Overrated (keep in mind I think all these players were good, but not as good as the media made them out to be) Goalie- Grant Fuhr Good glove hand, very athletic. But he seems to get a lot of hype when his team would typically score 6-8 goals for him per night. Defenseman- Mark Howe Solid defenseman, but it seems that his name carried a lot of weight. I don't think he's as good as Sergei Zubov and Zubov's not in the hall of fame and Howe is. Forward- Mark Messier This will probably make a lot of Canucks fans happy haha. I think he was a great player, but the credit he gets for his leadership abilities is vastly overhyped in my opinion. Plus he did nothing for the Canucks and the team got a lot better after he left. Underrated Goalie: Bill Ranford He plays the entire playoffs for the Oilers in 1990, wins the Cup and the Conn Smythe, the next year, Grant Fuhr plays the majority of the playoff games. Underappreciated might be a better word for Ranford. His skills faded a bit in the late 90s, but in the early 90s he was one of the best goalies in the league. Always played in the shadow of guys like Roy and Belfour. Defenseman: Steve Duchesne Always pretty solid for whatever team had him, Duchesne never got tons of fanfare. He had three 20-goal seasons from the blueline in the late 80s and early 90s and never once made the first or second all-star team. Forward: Pierre Turgeon Hard to believe he's underrated, but look at his stats, more than 500 goals and 1300 points and it seems like he's barely mentioned in discussions for potential hall of famers. Feel free to dispute my choices, that's the point. What are your guys' picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanev Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Ziggy Palffy is underrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I always thought Howe was underrated. Coffey got all the attention in the 80's because offence was everything. Howe was a poor man's Lidstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 good topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Over rated: All Leafs players, coaches, GMs, equipment managers, towel boys, and puck bunnies since '67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 i disagree with the grant fuhr choice i watched the oilers during their heyday fuhr could shut down the other team when needed and the oilers had a lead he had a bit of that roy mindset i accept he is not a top 10 of all time goalie but he was a critical element to those cup winning oiler teams and i don't see how he is over rated you might be overlooking how loosely the oilers played defence back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Over rated: Ed Belfour Breezy Bryzgalov Dion Phaneuf Drew Doughty Luke Schenn lol (wouldn't trade him for 10 firsts!) JRoenick Mark Messier (post Coil) Petr Nedved Dany Heatley Doug Gilmour honorable mention: the cookie monster Phil Kessel Under rated Curtis Joseph Jyrkki Lumme Phil Housley Sami Salo Patrice Bergeron Esa Tikkanen Bryan Trottier Trevor Linden Steve Larmer Dale Hawerchuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: Over rated: Ed Belfour Breezy Bryzgalov Dion Phaneuf Drew Doughty Luke Schenn lol (wouldn't trade him for 10 firsts!) JRoenick Mark (post Edmonton) Messier Petr Nedved Dany Heatley Doug Gilmour Under rated Curtis Joseph Jyrkki Lumme Phil Housley Sami Salo Patrice Bergeron Esa Tikkanen Bryan Trottier Trevor Linden Steve Larmer Dale Hawerchuk Everyone says Patrice Bergeron is underrated but he isn't he is just in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 5 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said: Everyone says Patrice Bergeron is underrated but he isn't he is just in the middle. When was the last time you heard Bergeron's name in a dicussion of the best player in the NHL? Who is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 10 minutes ago, oldnews said: When was the last time you heard Bergeron's name in a dicussion of the best player in the NHL? Who is better? Toews and Kopitar to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 21 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said: Toews and Kopitar to start. That's debatable. Goals Toews 28 Bergeron 32 Kopitar 25 Assists Toews 30 Bergeron 36 Kopitar 49 Takeaways and turnover differential Toews 57, +29 Bergeron 67, +33 Kopitar 43, -2 Faceoff percentage Toews 58.6 Bergeron 57.1 Kopitar 53.5 Relative corsi Toews +4.1 Bergeron +20.4 (best in the NHL) Kopitar +2.4 Relative quality of competition Toews +1.458 Bergeron +1,444 Kopitar +0.749 Offensive zone starts - zone finish differential Toews 55.4, -3.0 Bergeron 45.9, +4.7 Kopitar 51.8, -0.7 Hits and blocks Toews 81, 38 Bergeron 77, 56 Kopitar 78, 65 There is absolutely nothing that separates Bergeron from any of the elite two way players in the NHL - not hard to make the case that he's as good, if not better, than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 5 minutes ago, oldnews said: That's debatable. Nobody could beat Hody Codgson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 12 minutes ago, Odd. said: Nobody could beat Hody Codgson if by that you mean prematurely over-rated. He'd be up there with Petr Nedved, Luke Schenn, Alex Daigle, William Nylander lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNuCkSLoUiE23 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Underrated: Ray Whitney-quietest 1000 points in NHL history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Mike Bossy, Rated #20 in all time by the Hockey News. The guy should be Top 10, MINIMUM. 9 consecutive 50 goal seasons (Not even Gretzky did that). Most 60 goal seasons, 5 (tied with Gretzky non-consecutive). Given a minimum of 200 games highest goals per game average. .762. (Beats Gretzky) Most consecutive hat-tricks. 3 (Tied with Phantom Joe Malone). 1126 points in 752 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 7 hours ago, oldnews said: When was the last time you heard Bergeron's name in a dicussion of the best player in the NHL? Who is better? Top 3 shutdown C's in the league Toews Kopitar Bergeron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 6 hours ago, oldnews said: if by that you mean prematurely over-rated. He'd be up there with Petr Nedved, Luke Schenn, Alex Daigle, William Nylander Jake Virtanen lol. ftfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 7 hours ago, whcanuck said: Hey guys I thought it'd be fun to see who your most overrated forward, defenseman and goaltender of all time is? And the same questions for underrated? For me Overrated (keep in mind I think all these players were good, but not as good as the media made them out to be) Goalie- Grant Fuhr Good glove hand, very athletic. But he seems to get a lot of hype when his team would typically score 6-8 goals for him per night. Definitely agree here. Fuhr's success was largely a result of his team IMO. Defenseman- Mark Howe Solid defenseman, but it seems that his name carried a lot of weight. I don't think he's as good as Sergei Zubov and Zubov's not in the hall of fame and Howe is. Disagree on this one. Howe's 80 and 82-point seasons speak volumes. I actually generally consider him underrated among many defensemen. That said, I would say Zubov is underrated. Forward- Mark Messier This will probably make a lot of Canucks fans happy haha. I think he was a great player, but the credit he gets for his leadership abilities is vastly overhyped in my opinion. Plus he did nothing for the Canucks and the team got a lot better after he left. Agree. More of a guy who could lead good teams. Had some great offensive years early on and from then on was just consistent more than a star. His leadership fell apart on a bad team. Underrated Goalie: Bill Ranford He plays the entire playoffs for the Oilers in 1990, wins the Cup and the Conn Smythe, the next year, Grant Fuhr plays the majority of the playoff games. Underappreciated might be a better word for Ranford. His skills faded a bit in the late 90s, but in the early 90s he was one of the best goalies in the league. Always played in the shadow of guys like Roy and Belfour. Haven't looked into Ranford enough to be sure here. Defenseman: Steve Duchesne Always pretty solid for whatever team had him, Duchesne never got tons of fanfare. He had three 20-goal seasons from the blueline in the late 80s and early 90s and never once made the first or second all-star team. Never really thought about it much, but I'd generally agree. Not many people remember him despite his great offense. Forward: Pierre Turgeon Hard to believe he's underrated, but look at his stats, more than 500 goals and 1300 points and it seems like he's barely mentioned in discussions for potential hall of famers. Absolutely agree. Not sure how he's so often forgotten. Feel free to dispute my choices, that's the point. What are your guys' picks? Here are mine: Over-rated Goaltender - Grant Fuhr I wasn't going to double up on any of the OP's picks, but Fuhr is by far the most overrated star goaltender in NHL history in my opinion. While his win totals are extremely high, his GAA and Save percentage numbers are far below other goaltenders who are often named around him. While you could argue this was a result of the era, even goaltenders around his win level in the 80s are above him. Roy, Vernon, Vanbiesbrouck, Moog, and Barrasso all rank above him in career save percentage. They also all rank above him in GAA. In fact, Fuhr (who ranks 10th all-time in wins), is below every goaltender in GAA until 33rd in wins, Mike Liut. Defenseman - Scott Niedermayer Honestly, this one was difficult. I have a tough time picking this one, but for a long time, I've had trouble seeing why people were so excited about him. His skating was great, but it didn't turn into insane point totals. He was definitely a star and among the best defenders in the league at his time, but I felt that he was often just a bit too over-hyped. That said, some say that New Jersey's defensive style of hockey mitigated his offensive potential, so I could have been singing a different tune if his best years were with a different team. Forward - Mats Sundin I kind of wanted to pick Messier here as well, but I told myself I couldn't pick two of the OP's picks. While Sundin was an incredible leader and a very consistent player, he was never among the very top players in the league. The highest he was ever voted in the Hart Trophy voting was 8th and only got any votes at all four other times in his career. For a guy as hyped up as he seems to be, he wasn't quite the star you'd expect. Underrated Goaltender - Turk Broda Despite not playing on a great team, Broda led his team to many victories in the 1940s. He won the Vezina twice and was 4th in the Hart voting once. Defenseman - Brad Park This was one of those guys who I once didn't know of and was shocked once I checked out his stats. How does this guy fly under the radar? He had three 20+ goal seasons as well as 82 and 79 points in two of those seasons. The only reason I can think of is that he was doing this at the same time Bobby Orr and Denis Potvin were plying their trade, thus making his efforts seem less impressive. Forward - Bernie Federko "Who?" you ask. Exactly. No one even knows who this guy was, but he was a stalwart for the St. Louis Blues for 13 years during the late 70s and 80s. Federko may have not been well known since he wasn't a goal scorer, but rather a playmaker. He maxed out at 41 goals, but had 10 consecutive seasons in which he had 50+ assists, including a 64-game season. He had four 100+ point seasons and two 73-assist seasons. While he certainly wasn't the star of the 80s, it's a shame no one seems to even know his name. Just my two cents. To be honest, I'm more well versed on the underrated players, so I could probably be convinced otherwise on some of the overrated players, especially Niedermayer. I felt like I was grasping at straws a bit on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 6 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Mike Bossy, Rated #20 in all time by the Hockey News. The guy should be Top 10, MINIMUM. 9 consecutive 50 goal seasons (Not even Gretzky did that). Most 60 goal seasons, 5 (tied with Gretzky non-consecutive). Given a minimum of 200 games highest goals per game average. .762. (Beats Gretzky) Most consecutive hat-tricks. 3 (Tied with Phantom Joe Malone). 1126 points in 752 games. I do agree here. It's hard to consider him underrated when he's till highly regarded, but I agree that he's often not regarded highly enough. He's right around the top 10 mark for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 7 hours ago, oldnews said: That's debatable. Goals Toews 28 Bergeron 32 Kopitar 25 Assists Toews 30 Bergeron 36 Kopitar 49 Takeaways and turnover differential Toews 57, +29 Bergeron 67, +33 Kopitar 43, -2 Faceoff percentage Toews 58.6 Bergeron 57.1 Kopitar 53.5 Relative corsi Toews +4.1 Bergeron +20.4 (best in the NHL) Kopitar +2.4 Relative quality of competition Toews +1.458 Bergeron +1,444 Kopitar +0.749 Offensive zone starts - zone finish differential Toews 55.4, -3.0 Bergeron 45.9, +4.7 Kopitar 51.8, -0.7 Hits and blocks Toews 81, 38 Bergeron 77, 56 Kopitar 78, 65 There is absolutely nothing that separates Bergeron from any of the elite two way players in the NHL - not hard to make the case that he's as good, if not better, than anyone. Nice research. I'd agree that while Toews and Kopitar are incredibly good, people overrate them just a tad due to their past success. A slightly off year in which Bergeron might out-perform them could be overlooked just because people automatically slot them in as the best two defensive forwards. On that note, I personally think Pavelski is highly underrated. He seems to dominate in the face-off circle and have great defensive stats all-around. On top of that, he's among the best goal scorers in the league too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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