Canucks' Team Toughness

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think this team's needs, in order, are:

 

1) Top-2 playmaking center

2) Norris-trophy stud defenceman

3) Top-9 powerforwards

 

We've got a lot of small, skilled forwards now in Dahlen, Boucher, Goldobin, Baertschi and Granlund who may play hard but are relatively small and not powerforwards.

The one powerforward we have in the system is Jake Virtanen but who knows how he'll end up.

Horvat and Sutter are big and strong but not powerforwards-first.

You're right OP in that we need big strong wingers to complement the skill, but that's the least of our issues right now. It'll be a problem when we make the playoffs but we're still well away from that and to be honest the big strong powerforwards are much easier to attain than a top line center.

[PuckYa]

14 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think this team's needs, in order, are:

 

1) Top-2 playmaking center

2) Norris-trophy stud defenceman

3) Top-9 powerforwards

 

We've got a lot of small, skilled forwards now in Dahlen, Boucher, Goldobin, Baertschi and Granlund who may play hard but are relatively small and not powerforwards.

The one powerforward we have in the system is Jake Virtanen but who knows how he'll end up.

Horvat and Sutter are big and strong but not powerforwards-first.

You're right OP in that we need big strong wingers to complement the skill, but that's the least of our issues right now. It'll be a problem when we make the playoffs but we're still well away from that and to be honest the big strong powerforwards are much easier to attain than a top line center.

I do agree with you that we are too small up front at the moment. But we do have a few guys coming up with decent size. Hopefully Jim can find some more to add to the group that we have.

 

Boeser 6'1'' has good size

Gaudette 6'1" seems to have size

Horvat 6'0" is solid

Virtanen 6'1"

Labate 6'5"

Lockwood 5'11" but plays a gritty game

Patrick 6'3" ? 

 

The average forward is 72.93" (6' 1") tall, weighs 202.4 lbs, and is 27.1 years old. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by CoolCanucklehead

[spook007]

11 hours ago, Nuckchuks said:

I'm not his brother or his agent, feel free to suggest your own sandpaper for the Canucks.  Have to admit that 46 points for a 19 yo rookie is a pretty good season. 

Don't disagree the slightest about being a great rookie season.

However still not the slightest unhappy about drafting OJ instead of Tkachuk.

Also you said point win games not skill.... I suggest that for a lot of players that goes hand in hand. 

[canucklehead44]

On 3/30/2017 at 4:18 PM, Alflives said:

I don't see why we couldn't play Pedan on the fourth line, like we did a bit last season.  He's a big body, tough, and a really good skater (in a straight line).  

He took a huge step backwards this year but still - we are tanking anyway - would love to see his toughness and face punching talents in the lineup. 

[WeneedLumme]

12 hours ago, Borvat said:

The post indicates they aren't drafting or signing size/speed/skill/physicality - top six players.  What attributes are left?  Then says stick at it.

 

Kass was dealt for basically nothing (because he was missing what JB holds in high esteem - character- the only thing not previously mentioned) and isn't here and Jake hasn't made it and some people think he never will, specifically top six.  

 

That's seems like a contradiction.  

You seem to want to be willfully obtuse. Enjoy your ignorance.

[The Colt 45s]

Pavel Bure scored 60 goals a season twice because he was a master at floating and had lots of speed. We sure could use 40 or 50 goals off the odd man rush. I think skill is not our problem but it is WD's decision to push team defence and punish those who do not play defence. Under WDs system, Bure would be benched for not playing team defence.

 

The challenge is that many goals in this league are scored off an odd man rush. That is why the speed game kills.

But I understand the defence first mentality. The problem with being in an odd man rush situation is that you are now out of position and and if you cough up the puck your now looking at an odd man rush the other way. Making up the the 20-30 feet distance going the other way is hard.

Then again, if you are playing against a floater, you have to change your tactics.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

I do agree with you that we are too small up front at the moment. But we do have a few guys coming up with decent size. Hopefully Jim can find some more to add to the group that we have.

 

Boeser 6'1'' has good size

Gaudette 6'1" seems to have size

Horvat 6'0" is solid

Virtanen 6'1"

Labate 6'5"

Lockwood 5'11" but plays a gritty game

Patrick 6'3" ? 

The average NHLer is 6 3 now but not sure on average forward.  This trend may go down too given size isn't trumping skill like it use to at the draft table and the death of the enforcer at the NHL level.  Goalies also inflate this a bit with multiple monsters over 6 3 and hardly a soul around 6 feet anymore.   

Our size is getting better especially given IMO weight or muscle mass is part of it too and both Horvat and Virtanen have that in spades. Boesser looks bigger than he is and I don't have any concerns with him getting manhandled.  Lebate ( and Pedan if played upfront on the fourth line) would change the culture of the front group instantly and remove the soft/small label too exactly the same way Guddy and Try did for our defense this year.

[alfstonker]

15 hours ago, Borvat said:

Pretty blanket statement, you included every player attribute possible "size/speed/skill/physicality".  What's left?  That would mean they aren't looking for any top six players. Then you contradict yourself by saying stick to it.  Which is it?  Stick to what?

 

Put a little more effort into your responses, it makes it look like they haven't drafted or signed anyone.  It's insulting to the other posters who put in an effort.  

 

It's "blanket" as you put it because I intentionally said "top 6" If you have players of size who lack these other qualities they are hardly likely to feature in the top two lines.

 

"Stick to it" is pretty obvious. 

I am saying they have to continue to draft, sign, trade these players even though we were not lucky with Kassian or Jake (although Jake may still come good, many on here are downgrading him to 3rd or 4th line)

 

Feel free to seek any more clarity you may require, I understand not everyone has the same comprehension abilities. I would think there are not many who feel short-changed by my posts.

 

[Bruce Boudreau]

Biega the Hound can crash and bang.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Team severely misses a guy who makes his home in front of the net to pester Dman and the goalie.

 

Would love to have a Patric Hornqvist or a Tomas Holmstrom like player to be a thorn to the side of the opposition.  Missing that after Kesler left and evidently Burrows changing his game.

 

Team is too damn nice to play against.  They gotta be willing to not "fight" but pushback when they feel the heat, last night was a testament with Tram and Bulldog leading the way

[PuckYa]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

The average NHLer is 6 3 now but not sure on average forward.  This trend may go down too given size isn't trumping skill like it use to at the draft table and the death of the enforcer at the NHL level.  Goalies also inflate this a bit with multiple monsters over 6 3 and hardly a soul around 6 feet anymore.   

Our size is getting better especially given IMO weight or muscle mass is part of it too and both Horvat and Virtanen have that in spades. Boesser looks bigger than he is and I don't have any concerns with him getting manhandled.  Lebate ( and Pedan if played upfront on the fourth line) would change the culture of the front group instantly and remove the soft/small label too exactly the same way Guddy and Try did for our defense this year.

 

.And how the players stack up

• The average NHLer is 73.33" (6' 1 1/3") tall, weighs 204.42 lbs, and is 27.36 years old.
• The average forward is 72.93" (6' 1") tall, weighs 202.4 lbs, and is 27.1 years old.
• The average defenseman is 73.87" (6' 1 7/8") tall, weighs 209.66 lbs, and is 27.49 years old.
• The average goalie is 73.94" (6' 2") tall, weighs, 198.39 lbs, and is 28.54 years old.

Edited April 1, 2017 by CoolCanucklehead

[DIBdaQUIB]

42 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said:

Biega the Hound can crash and bang.

Unsung hero this year IMHO.

 

Long times without playing but when asked, plays with tenacity and physicality whether defense or forward.  Mr. Utility.

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Unsung hero this year IMHO.

 

Long times without playing but when asked, plays with tenacity and physicality whether defense or forward.  Mr. Utility.

Agreed, I just loved how Biega just ran right through Pearson like a bowling ball. He had a solid game vs the Kings. I imagine that a big play like that in a playoff game could change momentum in a game.

[kingofsurrey]

Really would like to see Pedan play a few games on the 4th line.

[TheGuardian_]

One thing to think on here is that height and weight are often "exaggerated" in hockey by teams, other sites sometimes have different numbers.

 

 

Forward prospects?

Horvat - 6' - 223 lbs

Baertschi - 5' 11" - 192 lbs

Boeser - 6' - 192 lbs

Rodin - 5' 11" - 185 lbs

Boucher - 5' 10" - 195 lbs

Granlund - 6' - 183 lbs

Goldobin - 6' - 185 lbs

Camarossa - 6' - 192 lbs

Chaput - 6' 1" - 192 lbs

Menga - 6' 1" - 195 lbs

Guance - 6' 2" - 217 lbs

 

Defence;

Stecher - 5' 10" - 190lbs

Hutton - 6' 2" - 207 lbs

Tanev - 6' 2" - 195 lbs

Sbisa - 6' 2" - 209 lbs

Biega - 5' 10" - 190 lbs

Edler - 6' 3" - 214 lbs

Tryamkin - 6' 7" - 265 lbs

Gudbranson - 6' 5" - 220 lbs

Juolevi - 6' 2" - 193 lbs

 

A terrifying line up to every team in the league, the next "core"? Two forwards over 200 lbs.

 

Hank - 6' 2" - 183 lbs, Daniel - 6' 1" - 190 lbs, Loui - 6' 2" - 196 lbs, Sutter - 6' 3" - 191 lbs

 

The rebuild needs to start in earnest with a little bit of size, that would be the easiest place to start. If a sub 6' 2" guy ain't scoring, then maybe he can put a little "hurt" on the opposition. They should bring in Fox/Torres.

 

I wonder if Biega is going to be the Dorsett replacement? Neck surgeries are complicated, he might not be able to take too many hits without the possibility of more severe and permanent damage.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by TheGuardian_

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

 

.And how the players stack up

• The average NHLer is 73.33" (6' 1 1/3") tall, weighs 204.42 lbs, and is 27.36 years old.
• The average forward is 72.93" (6' 1") tall, weighs 202.4 lbs, and is 27.1 years old.
• The average defenseman is 73.87" (6' 1 7/8") tall, weighs 209.66 lbs, and is 27.49 years old.
• The average goalie is 73.94" (6' 2") tall, weighs, 198.39 lbs, and is 28.54 years old.

My reference is the Hockey News they state the average NHLER is 6 3 in an issue this year in an article about Johnny Hockey.  Their height chart going back to 1910 to indicates this

..

Maybe they were wrong but I trusted they fact checked this.

[PuckYa]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

My reference is the Hockey News they state the average NHLER is 6 3 in an issue this year in an article about Johnny Hockey.  Their height chart going back to 1910 to indicates this

..

Maybe they were wrong but I trusted they fact checked this.

 

The average height peaked at 6'1'' in 1997. Since than players have not gotten any taller.

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/nhl-players-keep-getting-faster-stronger-and-more-skilled-how-far-can-hockey-evolution-go

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by CoolCanucklehead

[TheGuardian_]

9 minutes ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

 

The average height peaked at 6'1'' in 1997. Since than players have not gotten any taller.

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/nhl-players-keep-getting-faster-stronger-and-more-skilled-how-far-can-hockey-evolution-go

 

 

 

That is because Bettman started all those new rules that favoured the little players. He reduced hitting, fighting through the check, bodychecking, made a head hit verboten (little guys always are at elbow level) fighting, etc.... I think it was a personal matter.

Edited April 1, 2017 by TheGuardian_

[Salacious Crumb]

8 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

That is because Bettman started all those new rules that favoured the little players. He reduced hitting, fighting through the check, bodychecking, made a head hit verboten (little guys always are at elbow level) fighting, etc.... I think it was a personal matter.

Hands down your best post ever.

[RRypien37]

15 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think this team's needs, in order, are:

 

1) Top-2 playmaking center

2) Norris-trophy stud defenceman

3) Top-9 powerforwards

 

We've got a lot of small, skilled forwards now in Dahlen, Boucher, Goldobin, Baertschi and Granlund who may play hard but are relatively small and not powerforwards.

The one powerforward we have in the system is Jake Virtanen but who knows how he'll end up.

Horvat and Sutter are big and strong but not powerforwards-first.

You're right OP in that we need big strong wingers to complement the skill, but that's the least of our issues right now. It'll be a problem when we make the playoffs but we're still well away from that and to be honest the big strong powerforwards are much easier to attain than a top line center.

Strictly Horvat who has legitimate size at over 220 pounds at just 6'0. Sutter is listed at 6'3 but well under 200 pounds, quite skinny. At this point this team only has one forward (Horvat) who is well over 200 pounds - not including Skille, Shore or Gaunce as not established regulars.

 

It's a problem.