Kole Lind | RW

[stawns]

On 5/21/2020 at 7:28 AM, Chickenspear said:

I've been pondering who takes over 4c when Beags and Sutter's contracts end, and seeing he's listed as a C/RW, have been wondering how Mac fares in the faceoff dot. I haven't really watched any Utica games this season, and can't find faceoff stats for ahl. Does anyone have a rough estimate of his faceoff ability? Big body, seems the type that could grow into a shutdown 4c role.

They'll likely dip into the UFA markey to fill support positions.  However, if they are going to keep Petey, Hughes and Boeser, they aren't going to have much $

[dpn1]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:30 AM, Ray_Cathode said:

Lind’s progress was quite remarkable this year, of course, Utica was very rich this year in talented wingers at an AHL level - getting to play with guys like Baertschi, Goldobin, Boucher, Bailey and so on will certainly help your game. But Lind did not look out of place with those players, he earned his high billing playing on Utica’s top lines - and he is what - 21? Last year was kind of lost to injur and lack of pro experience, but this year he showed considerable growth. If he could again show growth in the coming season compared to this one, then that would put him on a path similar to MacEwen - and I see MacEwen as a guy that could be an NHL player. 
 

But Utica was very thin in the middle: other than Jasek (a repurposed RW) they mostly used career AHLers that could not be called ‘stars’ by ant stretch of the imagination even in the AHL. That is not to put those players down - it would place them in the layer of players outside of the NHL - say a hundred and fifty centres nhl centres, and outside of the top of the AHL, say another sixty or eighty centres, and that makes it a significant achievement to play at that level. I don’t think Lind is ready yet to be an nhl centre, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him transition to that role, dependent on Utica’s needs. Jasek, a repurposed winger, was probably their best or at worst, second best centre, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play their.

 

But look at this from both the team’s and the players perspective: many players move up to the nhl from the AHL as injury replacements - at least initially. But if you are a forward, the nhl guy that goes down might be a c, LW, or RW - it’s not uncommon for wingers to switch sides, but it is really useful if, especially on the bottom two lines, you can play any forward position - see Miller, Sutter, Beagle, and Motte. Giving your prospects that experience in the minors really helps them and the team to make use of that player - see MacEwen and Jasek  - both dual purpose players.

Thanks for a deep dive on this.  I am hoping Lind stays in Utica one more year.  Maybe some call-ups but another year in the "A".  He is going to be a good player for us.  I would love to see a line of Ferland - Adam - Jake.  Could be fun.  I have never (as a Canuck fan) enjoyed evaluating our prospects because in the past we haven;t drafted well.  Now it is more fun to track our prospects as we have some real good one now.  Thanks Ray.  Hope you and your loved ones are safe and healthy. 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:29 AM, dpn1 said:

Thanks for a deep dive on this.  I am hoping Lind stays in Utica one more year.  Maybe some call-ups but another year in the "A".  He is going to be a good player for us.  I would love to see a line of Ferland - Adam - Jake.  Could be fun.  I have never (as a Canuck fan) enjoyed evaluating our prospects because in the past we haven;t drafted well.  Now it is more fun to track our prospects as we have some real good one now.  Thanks Ray.  Hope you and your loved ones are safe and healthy. 

You are most welcome, of course only one person’s perspective, but I just picked up the Hockey News Future Watch today and see that Vancouver is rated as fourth best in prospects with an A-. Two players I have been very high on: Rafferty is rated third, and Lind is rated fourth. They rated Juolevi fifth, a player I still think the jury is out on mostly due to injuries. The particular skating problem I had been harping on, Juolevi’s pivot, was also remarked on by Benning as an issue. But Juolevi’s mobility did improve as the season progressed (after they shut him down and brought to Vancouver - I believe to get a medical evaluation (could be wrong there)) - I sure hope Juolevi can get in a season this coming winter or he might seem to be one of the most unfortunate players ever.

 

Rathbone was rated eighth, right after Woo - which I don’t agree with - I like Woo, but like Rathbone more. Both would benefit from the great work our Utica coaches have been doing with the D. Both of these young D’s are aggressive for their size - Woo at 6ft and 189 according to Hockeydb or 205 according to EliteProspects. Rathbone is 5’11” 190.
 

Podkolzin, the top a Canuck, was ranked 9th overall; Hoglander (2nd as a Canuck) was 27th overall. Considering that the top one hundred overall span a two year period, and our Last year’s pick (Hughes) played on Vancouver - that is pretty impressive, oh yeah, and add in Madden, traded to LA at 68. Good work Benning and crew.

[Fred65]

Just reading THN futures watch ( thanks for pointing it out ) on line and a couple of things jump out. I loved Bahl in the WJC and he's rated in the top ten risers. And since that time I've had a chnace to see Romanov ( Mtl ) another second round pick he has success written all over him. Both were selected after Woo. In the ten fallers they list Juolevi but make comment he's hard to analyse due to injuries 

 

Quote

7. OLLI JUOLEVI, D, VANCOUVER CANUCKS (-35)
Last year: 66^th
This year: not ranked in top 100.

Juolevi actually ranked sixth on this list last year, when he’d tumbled from 21^st to 66^th, and now he’s dropped right out of the top 100, which is disheartening to say the least given the Canucks used 2016’s fifth-overall pick on him. This season, the news isn’t all bad, however. Despite the slide in the ranks, he’s finally been relatively healthy, shaking off a bout of hip soreness and getting 45 games in with AHL Utica, during which he’s been used in all situations. So while the ranking suggests he’s slipping, Juolevi has actually experienced a positive year developmentally simply by staying on the ice and getting his reps in an important role. He turns 22 in May. Plenty of great NHL defensemen have debuted older than that. So we may see Juolevi get there at some point.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Fred65

[Ray_Cathode]

9 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Just reading THN futures watch ( thanks for pointing it out ) on line and a couple of things jump out. I loved Bahl in the WJC and he's rated in the top ten risers. And since that time I've had a chnace to see Romanov ( Mtl ) another second round pick he has success written all over him. Both were selected after Woo. In the ten fallers they list Juolevi but make comment he's hard to analyse due to injuries 

 

 

If you read the fine print in the THN Futures, you’ll see they claim to only rate 18 and 19 year olds in their top 100 - that would be why no Hughes.

[wildcam]

On May 20, 2020 at 9:04 PM, kingofsurrey said:

That is a good looking group.  Nice mix of sandpaper and skill.     Hope we can load up our D corp a bit...

I don't think Hoglander will be playing in top 6 by 2021..Hoglander hat 17 points in over 45 games in SHL this year..

Hoglander will be a AHL player for a few years, I don't think he will have the smooth transition like Petey did.. 

Petey also lead league and playoffs in scoring

[Ray_Cathode]

On 5/22/2020 at 12:27 PM, stawns said:

I believe they were starting to convert him when the shutdown happened.

 

On 5/20/2020 at 9:04 PM, kingofsurrey said:

That is a good looking group.  Nice mix of sandpaper and skill.     Hope we can load up our D corp a bit...

Actually, we did pretty well with Canuck acquisitions at D. In the past, Utica mostly filled out their D with minor pro journeymen. This season, Utica had seven Canuck prospects/properties on D - 
 

Juolevi         Rafferty

Brisebois.    Chatfield

Teves.          Sautner

                    Eliot
 

Outside of Utica, we have Tryamkin, Rathbone, Woo, and Utunen.  That’s not bad. The Hockey News Future Watch has us rated at fourth overall with an A- on the prospect list (this after recently graduating Demko, Gaudette, Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes). On our top ten prospect list are four defencemen - Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone and Utunen.  That’s pretty rich.

 

But yes, only one of those guys is a high first round pick, and yes, I’d love to see another high end prospect on D - a team just never seems to have enough.  But we might be thin for centre prospects, only one in our in the Future Watch top ten was Focht at nine - though we do have Costmar and Karlsson - at 25 Michaelis is hard to still consider a prospect, and we gave up Madden for Toffoli (Madden was 68th). We are richest on the wings for high end prospects with Podkolzin, Hoglander, and Lind in our Future Watch top ten (first, second and fourth, respectively). In a redraft of 2019, Podkolzin and Hoglander both moved up - Podkolzin up a single spot to 9th, but Hoglander all the way up to 18th - quite a rise out of the second round. 
 

 

 

 

Teves

[Phil_314]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:48 PM, Ray_Cathode said:

Lind did not play centre, he took a lot of key face offs - even with a centre available. In the AHL he looked more like a playmaker than a scorer.  In Utica we converted a winger in Jasek from a RW to a centre and MacEwen (Usually a winger) spent some time as a pivot, too - perhaps because we were thin in Centre prospects in Utica. Looking at the way Lind plays, and the fact he is strong on the draw, I would not be shocked if they tried him at centre - kind of like the way the Canucks deployed Miller. If Focht does not make the Comets, and we play Lockwood on the wing, we might see that experiment.  We’ll see. They don’t seem to be averse to repurposing wingers in Utica.

Are there faceoff stats being tracked for the AHL?  Tried Googling to see how he was doing but wasn't able to locate anything-- what percentage was he at?

[Googlie]

55 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Are there faceoff stats being tracked for the AHL?  Tried Googling to see how he was doing but wasn't able to locate anything-- what percentage was he at?

I have never found them in post-game stats or in the AHL records.  Sometimes the commentators give the current game stats, and a couple of times I have tried to record them while watching, but that does take dedication.

[Ray_Cathode]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:03 PM, Phil_314 said:

Are there faceoff stats being tracked for the AHL?  Tried Googling to see how he was doing but wasn't able to locate anything-- what percentage was he at?

Not that I have been able to find. I watched pretty much all of the Utica games, but my observation is, of course, entirely anecdotal. My guess is tha5 Lind won a lot more face offs than he lost - even took some defensive zone face offs toward the close of their season.

[BoKnows]

How is Lind looking?

 

I was hoping that this guy would develop into a 20~ goal scorer for us.

[Putgolzin]

2 hours ago, BoKnows said:

How is Lind looking?

 

I was hoping that this guy would develop into a 20~ goal scorer for us.

hasn't scored in months

[BoKnows]

2 minutes ago, nzan said:

hasn't scored in months

Must have Covid 

[Hairy Kneel]

14 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Not that I have been able to find. I watched pretty much all of the Utica games, but my observation is, of course, entirely anecdotal. My guess is tha5 Lind won a lot more face offs than he lost - even took some defensive zone face offs toward the close of their season.

How far away is he developmentally would you say. From having a legit shot at the big club?

[Phil_314]

15 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Not that I have been able to find. I watched pretty much all of the Utica games, but my observation is, of course, entirely anecdotal. My guess is tha5 Lind won a lot more face offs than he lost - even took some defensive zone face offs toward the close of their season.

Remembered reading that he had added grit and edge to his game, would his play in that sense and face-off ability translate to him being an NHL shutdown center?  Or would he have more potential than that and be able to play top-6, if not a Kesler lite?  

[CR7]

48 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

How far away is he developmentally would you say. From having a legit shot at the big club?

Based on watching a few of his games this past season, I think one more full year in the AHL before he starts earning call ups. Unless he's had a monster off season and lights up training camp.

[Pete M]

just realized Kole is missing the "en" in his last name....if he can be 2/3rds as good as Linden, then that is a good start. 

He played with grit and power in junior...not a far reach for him to find the "en" to add to his last name to become Lindenisk

[Ray_Cathode]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:14 PM, Phil_314 said:

Remembered reading that he had added grit and edge to his game, would his play in that sense and face-off ability translate to him being an NHL shutdown center?  Or would he have more potential than that and be able to play top-6, if not a Kesler lite?  

A lot of the responsibility for a centre is more complex than for a winger, and I haven’t much seen Lind perform those tasks. I do note that the Utica staff has used both Jasek (almost exclusively) and MacEwen (to a lesser extent) as centres, I’m uncertain as to their reasons, whether it is primarily team need, or to broaden the player’s utility in case of call up, or for whatever reason. So, back to your question, Lind made great progress during this year, his development reminds me of Gaudette, and I see him as a similar player. That said, looking at what stands ahead of him in Vancouver, if we re-sign Toffoli, that makes the wingers Miller/Pettersson (they kind of share the centre/winger roles), that would be the first line, with the second line likely to be Horvat with Boeser and Pearson. Is there a spot there for Lind to take (apart from injury)? Well, maybe - if not this year, maybe next. But... I see Podkolzin as a superior player on the wing in two years (he will learn enough in the KHL to step right in), and there is the possibility that Hoglander too is a top six type of forward in another year. This might push Lind to the bottom six to break in kind of like Gaudette, but depending on who we lose in expansion, he might have both Virtanen and MacEwen ahead of him. Nice problem to have if one or more of these guys outplays a vet - having excess valuable assets is how you fill needs that you haven’t been able to meet through your development system. 

 

And now your question, for me, if Lind continues his development in the coming year, he has the look of an NHL player - maybe with the Canucks (he might be an inexpensive replacement for a vet that we move on for another asset), or maybe elsewhere.

[Kuzy]

Why isn't anyone talking about Kole Lind? He looked good in yesterday's scrimmage highlights, and might be closer to a spot on the roster than we think?

[RetroCanuck]

3 hours ago, Stech said:

Why isn't anyone talking about Kole Lind? He looked good in yesterday's scrimmage highlights, and might be closer to a spot on the roster than we think?

Agreed, but there are too many others above him right now with more experience. Could definitely be a dark horse to steal a spot next season though.