Benning, Goldobin, and a logjam of forwards?

[CanadianRugby]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

You do realize that that's merely a 'marketing statement'? And from that very article:

 

 

But let's just ignore the statements that refute your pre (and ill) conceived notions, never mind the mountains of prospects creating the very 'log jam of forwards' this thread is concerned with. Clearly they haven't been rebuilding this whole time because, derp 

Doesn't every team inject youth into the roster though?  Going into last season, the Penguins had the same number of player turnover as the Canucks over the last 3 seasons.  Also over the last 3 seasons we've had a similar number of rookies play 50+ games to top teams like the Bruins and Jets.  Benning went out and got a bunch of vets to keep the team competitive and it didn't work, the influx of youth didn't happen.  Maybe this year.  

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Doesn't every team inject youth into the roster though? 

True, but not every team does it every year.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Before anyone says we're in a full-on 'youth movement' and happily moving youngsters up to the NHL, it would be good to remember how Boeser and Stecher started their first (full) seasons. 

 

Hint:  not playing with the Canucks...

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Curious to get the thoughts of others here, I hear daily on 650 ( I enjoy the Canucks coverage overall ) about a few things that grind my gears.

 

Jim Benning: it seems the consensus in the media? Is Benning will be on thin ice come the end of his current contract. We are hearing Benning needs Hughes, Boeser, and his other notable picks to reach max potential on sky high ceilings in order to save his job ?!?

 

I don't get it, am I one of the very few who sees with ownership in place the Benning/Linden regime here long term?

 

Benning has greatly improved the teams overall depth and quality of youth I just don't see how he'd be on a short leash.

 

Nikolay Goldobin: have heard more than a few times and again just now how little Goldobin is viewed even now how he is the Canucks reclamation project who maybe gets flipped for a 4th ir 5th round pick ?!? sorry what?

 

I mean the guy was a 1st round pick, has shown slick skill, speed, and finish. Has spent time in the organization learning the defensive side of the game as well. 22 years old and a scorer's touch that will need scoring. How is he a reclamation project?

 

If anything in a contract year, opportunity to play an offensive role, this reclamation project could pot 20 goals and make some defense look silly doing it. We saw flashes of this last year. Again, scratch my head when I hear project.

 

Logjam at forward? Defense?: one if the biggest ironies here is fans and media alike complain for years the prospect cupboard is bare, not enough players pushing for NHL jobs and the complaint once injuries hit that the Chaput's of the World get minutes.

 

Now the team has greater depth at all positions. Prospects knocking on the door and regulars and depth players under contract.

 

Some people keep sounding off about the team needing to trade out players because there is too many now especially at forward. Or on defense where will Hughes ir OJ fit. You dont go into camp with only enough bodies to fill roles and you certainly add veterans where you can in the event prospects cant make the jump.

 

Worst case is come the end of camp what? Biega, Gaunce go on Waivers ? nobody claims them because 30 other teams are trying to sneak their guys down too....

 

Like to hear others thoughts as maybe I'm out to lunch but seems there is a voice here that Benning is on thin ice, Goldobin is a project, and the team has too many potential NHL pieces on their roster.

Seems to me those same mouth-breathers on 650 were railing on and on before the extension as well - as if Benning were on 'thin-ice".

 

Wishful thinking on their part, but they had a fundamental misread on the satisfaction of ownership with his performance.  Also arguably no concept whatsoever of team-building.

 

Benning is not on thin-ice.  That is the ironic talk of people who want him judged on short term results.    It's longer term results that are expected of him - and that's how he'll be assessed imo.

 

In any event - the media can make all the noise they want, but they gain virtually no respect here on these boards, where there is more in depth debate over what the actual "transition" is and why it has taken the form it has.

 

Benning's approval rating here - when it was questioned whether he should be re-signed - was a resounding, near consensus.  92%.  (With comparable results in another poll).

 

 

I think in general people here don't quite find the ice as thin as the drama-peddlars at 650.

Personally, I don't expect the team to make the playoffs this coming season (still won't be making judgements on that basis quite yet) - but at the same time I think it will be one of the most interesting and exciting seasons in some time.

[thejazz97]

1 hour ago, wildcam said:

You forgot  Kole Lind on the AHL team.

Honestly though, who do you take out for him?

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Yeah, 'the three men said ______ [at this location]' totally sounds like a marketing statement and not reporting of what the three men said (by the Globe and Mail no less)!  Sure.

 

And, I like how your quote contains things like 'We're trying to win.  We're trying to make the playoffs.  We're going to do everything we can to do that' and then pretending that it supports your belief that Benning was rebuilding from the start!  Just brilliant!  Cognitive-dissonance much?

 

 

As Agent has said it really seems you are trying to oversimplify very vague statements. 

With roughly 23 NHL contracts to contend with as well as all of the minor leaguers, trying to field a competitive team and a winning team at that should be the main goal for any NHL team unless you are Edmonton, Arizona or Buffalo. 

JB has tried to install players in the line up who he believes can make the team competitive while contending with players under contract who have been here a long time regardless if they are who he wants on the team or not. 

So now that we are at a time when we can see the majority of "his" players in the line up, we can see what he has built. The problem is that many of the players are at various times in their careers and not everyone develops or peaks at the same times.

I am happy to see that every year, managements tries to better the team how ever they can and we all know that they cannot make a 23 man roster just like that. 

So whether you call it "rebuild" or "rebuild on the fly" or whatever label you want to put on it, I believe every team pretty much "rebuilds" every year and does what ever they can to contend for the cup. Otherwise, what would they be playing for? Not every one expects to win but you have to at least go into the season thinking that is what your goal is every year. I guess there is the ones who don't really care for the Cup and the paycheck is the only thing they care about, but that's a different subject altogether.

[Crabcakes]

7 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Curious to get the thoughts of others here, I hear daily on 650 ( I enjoy the Canucks coverage overall ) about a few things that grind my gears.

 

Jim Benning: it seems the consensus in the media? Is Benning will be on thin ice come the end of his current contract. We are hearing Benning needs Hughes, Boeser, and his other notable picks to reach max potential on sky high ceilings in order to save his job ?!?

 

I don't get it, am I one of the very few who sees with ownership in place the Benning/Linden regime here long term?

 

Benning has greatly improved the teams overall depth and quality of youth I just don't see how he'd be on a short leash.

 

Nikolay Goldobin: have heard more than a few times and again just now how little Goldobin is viewed even now how he is the Canucks reclamation project who maybe gets flipped for a 4th ir 5th round pick ?!? sorry what?

 

I mean the guy was a 1st round pick, has shown slick skill, speed, and finish. Has spent time in the organization learning the defensive side of the game as well. 22 years old and a scorer's touch that will need scoring. How is he a reclamation project?

 

If anything in a contract year, opportunity to play an offensive role, this reclamation project could pot 20 goals and make some defense look silly doing it. We saw flashes of this last year. Again, scratch my head when I hear project.

 

Logjam at forward? Defense?: one if the biggest ironies here is fans and media alike complain for years the prospect cupboard is bare, not enough players pushing for NHL jobs and the complaint once injuries hit that the Chaput's of the World get minutes.

 

Now the team has greater depth at all positions. Prospects knocking on the door and regulars and depth players under contract.

 

Some people keep sounding off about the team needing to trade out players because there is too many now especially at forward. Or on defense where will Hughes ir OJ fit. You dont go into camp with only enough bodies to fill roles and you certainly add veterans where you can in the event prospects cant make the jump.

 

Worst case is come the end of camp what? Biega, Gaunce go on Waivers ? nobody claims them because 30 other teams are trying to sneak their guys down too....

 

Like to hear others thoughts as maybe I'm out to lunch but seems there is a voice here that Benning is on thin ice, Goldobin is a project, and the team has too many potential NHL pieces on their roster.

Benning on thin ice?  Look, he was brought in to rebuild the team and ownership wanted none of that.  If anyone thinks that the Eriksson signing wasn't another attempt at giving the Sedins another shot at a playoff run, they are mistaken.  We all know that anything can happen once a team makes the playoffs.  This is the definition of drinking the kool-aid if you're swallowing that.  

 

So what happened?  Benning was attempting to rebuild and give the Sedins another shot at the same time and making modest headway and making himself look foolish and weak in the meantime.  At least he has been able to draft well since he arrived.  Then at the mid season meetings in 2016-17 things changed.  Ownership agreed to rebuild and Burrows and Hansen were moved.  

 

Not fast enough?  Benning was given 2 years to show progress because he had been spinning his wheels.  We'll see 4 years progress in 6 because I believe his hands were tied.  We will never hear reports of this because nobody is going to throw their boss under the bus.  I do not believe that Benning is foolish or weak.  He may be guilty of not being well spoken.  If he is allowed to do what he needs to do, I think he will do very well.

 

So now that the Sedins are gone, we see more competition amongst young players on the Canucks and veterans alike than make any fan comfortable.  Nobody can tell how the chips are going to fall and boy are they going to fall come training camp.  Why Goldobin?  No reason other than his play in the past could make him a candidate for waivers.  But that is the past.  We don't know how he is going to respond to what he was told in his exit meeting.  I am pretty confident that Green spelled out the facts of life with the Canucks to all players and we don't know for sure how players will respond.  

 

Every year there are surprises in camp.  I can wait.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

I'm starting to feel like the local sports media is paid for by the Toronto-based media companies... oh wait.

[erkayloomeh]

6 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Lot of work.

 

Remember how many of those players the fans thought would be really good?  

The only one I really liked on that list was kenins 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Yeah, 'the three men said ______ [at this location]' totally sounds like a marketing statement and not reporting of what the three men said (by the Globe and Mail no less)!  Sure.

 

And, I like how your quote contains things like 'We're trying to win.  We're trying to make the playoffs.  We're going to do everything we can to do that' and then pretending that it supports your belief that Benning was rebuilding from the start!  Just brilliant!  Cognitive-dissonance much?

 

 

The thing is, I'm not trying to disprove that they attempted to 'remain competitive'. You're the one being wilfully ignorant and ignoring half the comments (and reality) to suit your narrative. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said:

It’s not that simple.  An over simplification doesn’t work in this case.  Some factors: If they are given a chance to really make the team or not.... and if they do actually make the team if they deserve it or are waived anyways, etc.   The puck stops here for this “make room” argument

 

 

Yeah, it kind of is. Neither has remotely proven they're every day NHL players as of yet. 

 

Having said that, assuming they earn it, I think it's pretty safe to assume both are on the roster and there's plenty of room for them. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

Doesn't every team inject youth into the roster though?  Going into last season, the Penguins had the same number of player turnover as the Canucks over the last 3 seasons.  Also over the last 3 seasons we've had a similar number of rookies play 50+ games to top teams like the Bruins and Jets.  Benning went out and got a bunch of vets to keep the team competitive and it didn't work, the influx of youth didn't happen.  Maybe this year.  

We didn't have youth to insert. It's only starting arriving now. Reality gonna reality bruh.

[kingofsurrey]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

I'd hate to be your contractor if you ever built a house. Barely got the foundation, studs and roof up and you're complaining about how drafty it is.

I'd love to be your contractor if you ever built a house.  Barely got the foundation , studs and roof up and you say the building is finished.... no need to spend any more money on it. Ready to live in it drafty and all.....

 

Some of us what a well build fully finished quality home built with the best materials......... while others seem to be willing to settle for a  cheap " contractors special... "

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I'd love to be your contractor if you ever built a house.  Barely got the foundation , studs and roof up and you say the building is finished.... no need to spend any more money on it. Ready to live in it drafty and all.....

 

Some of us what a well build fully finished quality home built with the best materials......... while others seem to be willing to settle for a  cheap " contractors special... "

That's not remotely my position. 

[xereau]

1 hour ago, thejazz97 said:

Honestly though, who do you take out for him?

Granlund or Goldobin.  Lind gets his first real shot this year.  He will take it if her earns it.

[canucksnihilist]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, it kind of is. Neither has remotely proven they're every day NHL players as of yet. 

 

Having said that, assuming they earn it, I think it's pretty safe to assume both are on the roster and there's plenty of room for them. 

Well this is a great example of where actions can meet words, and lots of peeps here can quit worrying about the plan.

 

Goldobin did well at the end of last year.  Sure it’s dofferent down the stretch and doesn’t count as much - but it does show something.

 

Dont know now much about Liepsic, but just hope he can have a good set of games.  

 

Basically they have to show they are worth the risk of keeping them.  They have to show enough.  It will be obvious.

 

If the team does the right thing at the right time you will find a lot of critics here relax.

 

well see!  This might be the first test of the make room rhetoric.   Is t about money, or about winning?  That is the real question at root of a lot of criticism, and it would be good to see it fall of the winning side, no matter how unlikely that may seem....

[cory40]

6 hours ago, combover said:

The logjam isn’t because of picks and prospects it’s because of ufa signings of depth players something any team could have if they signed 10 bottom six/pairing ufas. Of which 7 (the three this summer mdz gagme eriksdone and Nielsen) will be in the line up regardless of how they play. 

yes benning has gotten more picks and prospects in the system being the sh.tiest team will do that. And if his top picks don’t become top players then he should be gone because it means HE missed with something no other Canucks GM has had and that a handful of to ten picks. 

He should have next season and the one after to turn it around or he should be gone and rightfully so. 

The end of the 19/20 season if the team isnt a wildcard bubble team or better he’s failed.and hopefully ownership stops waiting for him to figure it out. 

Who cares how it has come about. Its good management. We finally have some depth and a couple game changers in the system.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

46 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The thing is, I'm not trying to disprove that they attempted to 'remain competitive'. You're the one being wilfully ignorant and ignoring half the comments (and reality) to suit your narrative. 

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Nope. Again, I'm not refuting either set of facts. 

[Crabcakes]

52 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said:

Well this is a great example of where actions can meet words, and lots of peeps here can quit worrying about the plan.

 

Goldobin did well at the end of last year.  Sure it’s dofferent down the stretch and doesn’t count as much - but it does show something.

 

Dont know now much about Liepsic, but just hope he can have a good set of games.  

 

Basically they have to show they are worth the risk of keeping them.  They have to show enough.  It will be obvious.

 

If the team does the right thing at the right time you will find a lot of critics here relax.

 

well see!  This might be the first test of the make room rhetoric.   Is t about money, or about winning?  That is the real question at root of a lot of criticism, and it would be good to see it fall of the winning side, no matter how unlikely that may seem....

He made room for Boeser and for Stecher but you're right, this year is different.  The crap will hit the fan.  And every year, it's going to get harder to make the team.  Goldy is a great example, last year he was on the bubble and played 38 games.  Unless he makes a big step forward, he's back in Utica.  This change of tack of signing free agents to shore up the bottom 6 and add grit has put Gaunce on the hot seat.  It's going to take a miracle for him to make the team at all I'm sorry to say.  Chaput, who played 68 games 2 years ago is nowhere to be seen. 

 

What is more, the following year will be even bigger.  Hughes and Juolevi for sure will be strong candidates.  And there's a whole laundry list of Benning's draftees who will have a year of pro under their belts.  Lind, Gadjovich, Palmu, Dahlen, and more perhaps (I know Dahlen wasn't drafted by JB)

 

I really hope that ownership has the cojones to let the snowball gather steam.