[Speculation] Canucks Likely to push for Gardiner on July 1st

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We need more elite YOUNG talent to go with our current young guys.  Keeping Edler and Tanev, and signing another middle of the pack UFA D man will on keep us middle of the pack.  Maybe it's best to allow the youth to carry us, and see where we finish.  If they do great and we do great, we are happy!  If they are still not ready to carry the team, then we get a top five pick, and likely add another elite YOUNG talent.  I'm seriously wondering if go half measure on a rebuild is like pulling a band-aid off slowly.  Maybe it's best to rip it off, and suffer intense, but shorter pain?

Hearing talk of signing guys like Jake Gardiner makes me want to 

Vegas is competing for a Cup with no rebuild at all, just one draft and some draft picks.  We don't need to take years and years to rebuild and don't need to wait until we draft every player that fits our needs.  Look at Vegas, they add a Mark Stone in a trade and now they are Cup contenders.  

 

We are not that far off and don't need to be bottom of the pile for the next 3 years just to collect high draft picks.  That doesn't work all the time as evidenced by Edmonton and Buffalo.  We need to dump some contracts this summer, sign a UFA and/or trade for a player who can play with BO and Pearson and we need to get Tryamkin back as soon as possible.  Maybe one more D to complement the group.  If Edler leaves then we need another placeholder until the kids are ready.  That's about it.  We will get a nice player a #10 this year so that player will be added to our core.  

 

We should aim for the playoffs next year, it is time.  And after that we can start to think about what one player or two we need to take us to the promised land.

 

BO, Petey, Brock, Gaudette, Virtanen, Madden, MacEwen, Motte, Leivo, Hughes, Juolevi, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin, Woo, Brisebois, Rathbone, Demko, DiPietro.  These are 18 players plus our draft picks from this year where most likely we will get an additional 2 NHL players.  That is almost a complete team right there.  You don't build an entire team just through the draft.  We can add the missing pieces via trade or free agency.  We are almost there.

[SilentSam]

27 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I respectfully disagree.

 

You get bubkis in trade for Tanev. And if you do trade him you cant just plug and play a guy like Myers and hope to be better. There is no addition by subtraction with Tanev every time he gets hurt the team goes into a losing spiral. JB needs to add depth on the right not 1 step fwd 2 steps back. When Edler and Tanev find a home on the 2nd pairing this team will be competitive.

.. and likewise, I must as well..  

       Trade Tanev for a prospect,  OR use him with a prospect and our pick to move up at the draft and target Byram ( I beleive is ranked #2 at the moment) .  Freeing up Tanevs 4.5 and letting Edlers 6m go let’s you go after EK65, that 10.5m free to negotiate with, adding or subtracting to try to get EK on a 5 year contract.

This Franchise has never had a bonofide #1, and possibly the main reason it has fallen short of a Stanley Cup..  but the reason to embrace EK65 is for the true mentorship that our Youthful D core would get from him. That knowledge would be shared down through the rotation years of the D prospectus that rises.. and what we have lined up for the next 5 years looks pretty solid if the stars align,. they just need a player who is at THAT level to start THAT journey.

Edler and Tanev on a second pairing line would be whole heartedly targeted into bags of broken pretzels, leaving us continuing to deal with their loss days to injuries as we do so now.

Its a squeaky, broken wheel that has been greased far too long..  it HAS to be replaced,. It’s holding this Team back from its proper rise.

Ps. I have never mentioned Myers in this thread other than I don’t want him.

Resign Schenn for 2 years, and get Tryamkin back.. target EK65, move up for Byram.. he is 1- 1.5 years away..possibly sooner,. the rest will fall into place.

 

[Goal:thecup]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas is competing for a Cup with no rebuild at all, just one draft and some draft picks.  We don't need to take years and years to rebuild and don't need to wait until we draft every player that fits our needs.  Look at Vegas, they add a Mark Stone in a trade and now they are Cup contenders.  

Did you miss last year?  Vegas has been a contender from the get-go.  These modern expansion drafts are too favourable to the expansion teams.

 

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

We are not that far off and don't need to be bottom of the pile for the next 3 years just to collect high draft picks.  That doesn't work all the time as evidenced by Edmonton and Buffalo.  We need to dump some contracts this summer, sign a UFA and/or trade for a player who can play with BO and Pearson and we need to get Tryamkin back as soon as possible.  Maybe one more D to complement the group.

Sign Edler and Karlsson, bring on Juolevi, and get Tryamkin back; should oughta about do it.

 

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

 

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

.. and likewise, I must as well..  

       Trade Tanev for a prospect,  OR use him with a prospect and our pick to move up at the draft and target Byram ( I beleive is ranked #2 at the moment) .  Freeing up Tanevs 4.5 and letting Edlers 6m go let’s you go after EK65, that 10.5m free to negotiate with, adding or subtracting to try to get EK on a 5 year contract.

This Franchise has never had a bonofide #1, and possibly the main reason it has fallen short of a Stanley Cup..  but the reason to embrace EK65 is for the true mentorship that our Youthful D core would get from him. That knowledge would be shared down through the rotation years of the D prospectus that rises.. and what we have lined up for the next 5 years looks pretty solid if the stars align,. they just need a player who is at THAT level to start THAT journey.

Edler and Tanev on a second pairing line would be whole heartedly targeted into bags of broken pretzels, leaving us continuing to deal with their loss days to injuries as we do so now.

Its a squeaky, broken wheel that has been greased far too long..  it HAS to be replaced,. It’s holding this Team back from its proper rise.

 

 

And if you dont get EK? 

 

And you have traded Tanev and let Edler walk. What does your depth chart look like. What's plan B?

 

Ps Tanev and 10th OA dont get you a top 3 pick. 

 

[Alflives]

21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas is competing for a Cup with no rebuild at all, just one draft and some draft picks.  We don't need to take years and years to rebuild and don't need to wait until we draft every player that fits our needs.  Look at Vegas, they add a Mark Stone in a trade and now they are Cup contenders.  

 

We are not that far off and don't need to be bottom of the pile for the next 3 years just to collect high draft picks.  That doesn't work all the time as evidenced by Edmonton and Buffalo.  We need to dump some contracts this summer, sign a UFA and/or trade for a player who can play with BO and Pearson and we need to get Tryamkin back as soon as possible.  Maybe one more D to complement the group.  If Edler leaves then we need another placeholder until the kids are ready.  That's about it.  We will get a nice player a #10 this year so that player will be added to our core.  

 

We should aim for the playoffs next year, it is time.  And after that we can start to think about what one player or two we need to take us to the promised land.

 

BO, Petey, Brock, Gaudette, Virtanen, Madden, MacEwen, Motte, Leivo, Hughes, Juolevi, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin, Woo, Brisebois, Rathbone, Demko, DiPietro.  These are 18 players plus our draft picks from this year where most likely we will get an additional 2 NHL players.  That is almost a complete team right there.  You don't build an entire team just through the draft.  We can add the missing pieces via trade or free agency.  We are almost there.

Vegas is a unique circumstance.  Because of their expansion draft rules, they got a bushel full of draft picks, and a lot of really good players, who are all about similar age of development.  We are not a comparable to them.  We need to get more picks,  build through the draft, and get elite talent.  Then, if we want a Mark Stone kind of guy, we will have the assets to get him.  Right now, we don't have the depth in our system to afford to trade away picks or prospects for elite guys.    

[SilentSam]

9 minutes ago, hammertime said:

And if you dont get EK? 

 

And you have traded Tanev and let Edler walk. What does your depth chart look like. What's plan B?

 

Ps Tanev and 10th OA dont get you a top 3 pick. 

 

1.  There will other options that arise... 

schenn is solid..  and Tryamkin is highly underrated for the most part here.

2. Then if you sign Edler it’s short term, low money, and tradeable.

3. I did say Tanev, a prospect, and the 10 th.  

      ( I might lean to Joulevi included as the prospect)  ... or perhaps Tanev and Dipietro and Joulevi gets us to top 3, and we keep 10.

[hammertime]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

1.  There will other options that arise... 

schenn is solid..  and Tryamkin is highly underrated for the most part here.

2. Then if you sign Edler it’s short term, low money, and tradeable.

3. I did say Tanev, a prospect, and the 10 th.  

      ( I might lean to Joulevi included as the prospect)  ... or perhaps Tanev and Dipietro and Joulevi gets us to top 3, and we keep 10.

Hey Eddie franchise leading D ol buddy ol pal how about you take this low$ short term contract and leave it wide open for us to trade you whenever we want.  Sign here.

 

Tanev Dipietro Juolevi for top 3 git er Dunn Jim! 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Hey Eddie franchise leading D ol buddy ol pal how about you take this low$ short term contract and leave it wide open for us to trade you whenever we want.  Sign here.

 

Tanev Dipietro Juolevi for top 3 git er Dunn Jim! 

 

 

 

Your “franchise leading D”..     has kinda been on “life support” here for a couple or 3 years..  let’s just pull the plug and get on with evolution.

[hammertime]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Your “franchise leading D”..     has kinda been on “life support” here for a couple or 3 years..  let’s just pull the plug and get on with evolution.

Maybe these fans dont deserve a cup after all. 

[MeanSeanBean]

18 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

1.  There will other options that arise... 

schenn is solid..  and Tryamkin is highly underrated for the most part here.

2. Then if you sign Edler it’s short term, low money, and tradeable.

3. I did say Tanev, a prospect, and the 10 th.  

      ( I might lean to Joulevi included as the prospect)  ... or perhaps Tanev and Dipietro and Joulevi gets us to top 3, and we keep 10.

Sam, I would be curious to how you can justify Tryamkin being underrated here? I know you are a strong Tryamkin supporter and I'm just attempting to understand the reasoning behind CDCs strongest supporter in Tryamkin.

 

I will admit I didn't have a chance to watch many games of his this year, though I did watch a handful. He looks pretty similar to the player we had in his first year, though it is difficult to tell due to level of competition. It isn't a normal occurance for players his age to transition smoothly into the NHL from the KHL. His original transition to the NHL went decent and he looked to be a solid top 6 D, but you could also argue he was younger and easier to mold at that time.

 

If anything I would say Tryamkin is overrated around here. Not because he is a bad player, but because as fans we were left yearning for more of our big Ruasian. While I do sincerely hope he comes back and is able to impact our D, the longer time goes, I start becoming less and less positive about his ability to do so. As time passes I become less confident he can be an impactful NHL level.

 

I guess what I'm asking is your experience with Tryankin. Like I said, I only had the opportunity to watch a handful of games. I assume you have had more experience this year observing him. Is he a better, more NHL ready player now then he was when he was playing with us? From what I have seen he is the same, and hasn't really progressed past the solid top 6 we had here. While there is nothing wrong with that player, at all, I wouldn't say that he is underrated around these parts in the slightest.

 

Just looking for some input.

[Zhukini]

Wouldn't be surprised, sounds like a Benning signing. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Goal:thecup said:

Did you miss last year?  Vegas has been a contender from the get-go.  These modern expansion drafts are too favourable to the expansion teams.

 

Sign Edler and Karlsson, bring on Juolevi, and get Tryamkin back; should oughta about do it.

 

 

 

Vegas had one big draft and got a bunch of draft picks to boot.  We've had like 5 full drafts plus this year to rebuild with Benning plus we had some carry over players like BO, Hutton, Edler, Tanev and Markstrom from the Gillis years to build around.  So I would say we've had plenty of time to be in the same category as Vegas which did everything in one year.

 

What we need to do right now is shed some contracts, these were contracts primarily signed by Benning not carry overs.  Sutter, Baertschi, Eriksson, Spooner, Schaller and Tanev.  We also have RFA's in Granlund, Goldobin and Pouliot that need to go.  Too many players on the roster right now.  If Benning can get rid of all of these contracts and get some value from them, maybe some draft picks, then that will free up roster spots for guys we've already drafted and allow us to go out and get a free agent or two to fill any gaps.

 

This shouldn't take years to accomplish.  We can have one more good draft this year and we are done.  The rest of the players that need to fill in the gaps can be acquired via trade or free agency.  We are almost there.  This summer is going to be huge.  

[coryberg]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas is competing for a Cup with no rebuild at all, just one draft and some draft picks. 

Vegas was built a year and a half ago.

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Vegas was built a year and a half ago.

Built through an expansion draft in one year is not a rebuild.  You missed my point...

[Screw]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Built through an expansion draft in one year is not a rebuild.  You missed my point...

Vegas had the most favorable expansions rules ever.  They raided the NHL of talent like Vikings. Held teams hostage to hand over picks like bandits.  Now they compete for cups.  Meanwhile sour grapes grow lovely in Vancouver.  

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, shayster007 said:

Sam, I would be curious to how you can justify Tryamkin being underrated here? I know you are a strong Tryamkin supporter and I'm just attempting to understand the reasoning behind CDCs strongest supporter in Tryamkin.

 

I will admit I didn't have a chance to watch many games of his this year, though I did watch a handful. He looks pretty similar to the player we had in his first year, though it is difficult to tell due to level of competition. It isn't a normal occurance for players his age to transition smoothly into the NHL from the KHL. His original transition to the NHL went decent and he looked to be a solid top 6 D, but you could also argue he was younger and easier to mold at that time.

 

If anything I would say Tryamkin is overrated around here. Not because he is a bad player, but because as fans we were left yearning for more of our big Ruasian. While I do sincerely hope he comes back and is able to impact our D, the longer time goes, I start becoming less and less positive about his ability to do so. As time passes I become less confident he can be an impactful NHL level.

 

I guess what I'm asking is your experience with Tryankin. Like I said, I only had the opportunity to watch a handful of games. I assume you have had more experience this year observing him. Is he a better, more NHL ready player now then he was when he was playing with us? From what I have seen he is the same, and hasn't really progressed past the solid top 6 we had here. While there is nothing wrong with that player, at all, I wouldn't say that he is underrated around these parts in the slightest.

 

Just looking for some input.

Shay,    

    From all observations this year, a handful of KHL games,.  And input from others like @Hairy Kneel & @Stierlitz who have watched him closer than myself .. it seems Nik has truly grown into the body he was gifted.

In his time here, Listed as 6’7” 265, at 21-22 years old there was a body/mass conversion that needed to take place.

Ultimately, with Tryamkin, for him to reach his peak attributed levels.. Stamina is/was key.

I was watching for his TOI to come up to the 18- 19 min mark for him to find form..  the 17-18 season had him close to that, and this season he has been posting 20 - 22 mins per game.

Its that type of time that would develop that huge frame into a “peek” form.  

With the agility that this big man possesss, that stamina translates into strength and speed.

Even Benning has been quoted as calling him a “freek”,.  A truly praised word for athletes that size.

We saw Nik’s, strength and agility here in Vancouver..  we didn’t get to see “more” out of him because he wasn’t played enough really.. but what we did see was some fantastic glimpses of what he could be if given more ice time.

I don’t want to get into shoulda, woulda, coulda’s, regarding Nik’s developments here..  

But I think the big man did himself a service to realize that more ice time translated into more Stamina for his endomorph frame.

He was guaranteed his needs with AVtomobilist in the KHL.. even though he was offered more money here, there was a draw to home, family, with a new wife that just felt heartingly right.

If Nik would have stayed, I think he would have been doggedly targeted by the “tough men” of the NHL,. and that 22 yr old would have his confidence challenged far too much on a team that does not have that prowess.

 

His game in the KHL is plataueing, by that I mean that the game on the larger ice surface of the KHL becomes somewhat telegraphed because there is so much room to move.. Tryamkins game is far more suited for the NHL size ice surface,. He will need no transition, he didn’t need it before, the only thing he needs here is to learn the systems and tendencies of a new partner.

I see him on the 2nd pairing.

 

He is strong. He is fast. He is agile..  he is NHL ready.  

All that is needed is for the right Coach in this league, to allow Nikita the time through his own efforts to gain the confidence to tackle any player he battles against here..  memories of ragdolling J Benn a couple of games, says he will not have a problem..

But there is an offensive upside that we still see glimpses of that could pair him well with Hughes..

 

I just feel he is underrated as to where I see things lined up,. If we can get a single Bonofide #1 D to sign here, this is how I see our D with Tryamkin replacing Tanev..  I will use EK65 as an “example”.. and I don’t care about L or R hand shots too much on D in this new era, “roving” is key.

 

EK65.  Edler

Hughes Tryamkin

Schenn Stetcher

 

(pencil in Biegga, Sautner, Joulevi, Brisboise, Hutton.)  Tanev should be moved.

 

hopes this His helps to understand my thoughts and rationale.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, Screw said:

Vegas had the most favorable expansions rules ever.  They raided the NHL of talent like Vikings. Held teams hostage to hand over picks like bandits.  Now they compete for cups.  Meanwhile sour grapes grow lovely in Vancouver.  

Yes they did very well.  A good management team was assembled to take advantage of the favourable rules.  They also put a good coach in charge of the team.  Gerard Gallant is the guy I wanted in Vancouver.  He has made a big difference to that team.

[Sean Monahan]

“Gardiner is an elite top pairing D man on any team in the league and we should be lucky to have him!”

 

- Leafs fans after reading an article on advanced stats 

 

“Gardiner is trash. Number one reason we lost tonight and I can’t wait to move on.”

 

- Leafs fans after watching a game in which JG played

 

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

“Gardiner is an elite top pairing D man on any team in the league and we should be lucky to have him!”

 

- Leafs fans after reading an article on advanced stats 

 

“Gardiner is trash. Number one reason we lost tonight and I can’t wait to move on.”

 

- Leafs fans after watching a game in which JG played

 

And....media people in Vancouver think the Canucks should pursue Gardiner = Canucks will pursue Gardiner.

Must be true!

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas is competing for a Cup with no rebuild at all, just one draft and some draft picks.  We don't need to take years and years to rebuild and don't need to wait until we draft every player that fits our needs.  Look at Vegas, they add a Mark Stone in a trade and now they are Cup contenders.  

 

We are not that far off and don't need to be bottom of the pile for the next 3 years just to collect high draft picks.  That doesn't work all the time as evidenced by Edmonton and Buffalo.  We need to dump some contracts this summer, sign a UFA and/or trade for a player who can play with BO and Pearson and we need to get Tryamkin back as soon as possible.  Maybe one more D to complement the group.  If Edler leaves then we need another placeholder until the kids are ready.  That's about it.  We will get a nice player a #10 this year so that player will be added to our core.  

 

We should aim for the playoffs next year, it is time.  And after that we can start to think about what one player or two we need to take us to the promised land.

 

BO, Petey, Brock, Gaudette, Virtanen, Madden, MacEwen, Motte, Leivo, Hughes, Juolevi, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin, Woo, Brisebois, Rathbone, Demko, DiPietro.  These are 18 players plus our draft picks from this year where most likely we will get an additional 2 NHL players.  That is almost a complete team right there.  You don't build an entire team just through the draft.  We can add the missing pieces via trade or free agency.  We are almost there.

I take your point more to be that you don't necessarily need to draft 'elite' players to be a contender.

Virtually everything Vegas got - were on the edge of team's expansion lists - ie a whole team full of 4D, 7/8 forwards, etc.

That makes for one hell of a deep team though - and the ability to stockpile 4D - some of them just emerging - as were some of their forwards.

Not necessarily a single "elite" player there prior to arriving in Vegas.

I don't necessarily 'they add Stone and are now contenders' fits the story = they were already contenders - and added more than Stone this year - but for me the lesson that people might have learned in paying attention to Vegas - is that it's a team game - and deep teams can compete and win as readily as teams with a few 'elite' pieces.   'Elite' players can help - but regardless, a team needs to be built from top to bottom, and those key gamechangers don't necessarily have to come out of the top 5 or 10 picks of the draft.  So many people get hung up on this myth - that lottery picks will make you a contender.  Karlsson, Marchessault, Tuch, Smith, Scmidt, Theodore, etc = nothing resembling a lottery champion.