Free agency or Trade???

[ilduce39]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The real question is, what would it cost...?

If only Demko, Tanev and a 2nd would do it.

[mll]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The real question is, what would it cost...?

Might have to beat out Tampa.  They were apparently talking at the TDL but Tampa probably didn't want to disrupt their roster/chemistry heading into the playoffs.  

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

If only Demko, Tanev and a 2nd would do it.

Hard to say. They might prefer Markstrom but that would be a hell of a gamble by Benning. I'm having trouble figuring out a solid trade fit.

 

Still, a 2nd (offensive) pair of Hughes-Ristolainen is awfully tempting... They would FEAST. And leaving the Edler pairing to play the harder matchup minutes would do wonders for Risto IMO.

 

8 hours ago, mll said:

Might have to beat out Tampa.  They were apparently talking at the TDL but Tampa probably didn't want to disrupt their roster/chemistry heading into the playoffs.  

I'm sure we'd have to beat out a few teams. Any word on what they were offering?

[ilduce39]

12 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Hard to say. They might prefer Markstrom but that would be a hell of a gamble by Benning. I'm having trouble figuring out a solid trade fit.

 

Still, a 2nd (offensive) pair of Hughes-Ristolainen is awfully tempting... They would FEAST. And leaving the Edler pairing to play the harder matchup minutes would do wonders for Risto IMO.

 

I'm sure we'd have to beat out a few teams. Any word on what they were offering?

I’d still kick the tires on Myers, unless the Risto acquisition somehow didn’t cost Tanev.  

 

Adding 12’10 and 70+ points of RHD would change the complexion of the team in a hurry.  

[Crabcakes]

11 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Shrewd free agent signings, trades, drafting, development and contract negotiations.

 

There are at least 3 posters on this board that feel they are better at these tasks than current management. Why don’t we convince Franny to hire them to run the team by committee. Cup in 3 years or less = done deal.

Franny?  

[vannuck59]

Big year for JB

 

He Needs to cut ties with a few players. Make some trades .Add picks.

[PhillipBlunt]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 10:57 AM, KyGuy123 said:

Chicago was a pretty small team when they won. Pittsburgh as well 

Chicago

Brent Seabrook - 6'3" 227

Dustin Byfuglien - 6'5" 266

Troy Brouwer - 6'2" 214

 

Pittsburgh

Evgeni Malkin - 6'3" 200

 

But, size isn't the main factor in why the teams won. The combination of skill, size, speed, and (in my opinion, the most important) team chemistry all factor into the mix.

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

I’d still kick the tires on Myers, unless the Risto acquisition somehow didn’t cost Tanev.  

 

Adding 12’10 and 70+ points of RHD would change the complexion of the team in a hurry.  

Add a possible/eventual Tryamkin return and that's some big D  

 

 

I'm not sure Tanev + moves the needle for them to be honest. Not that he wouldn't be a good fit, they could use a solid, 2nd pair match up D to open up more offensive opportunity for Dahlin, Montour etc. But given his age, injury history etc... I don't think he could be the main piece at the very least.

 

Their other major need (beyond goal tending) would be a top 6 winger (also one of our bigger holes unfortunately).

 

[IBatch]

THN recent mag is titled Game Changers and is about what they are calling the greatest free agent class of all-time.  And if only a few of the top players re-sign with their teams it will likely be just that.  Of the top ten only Duchene, Pavelski and Skinner seem to be between locks (Pavelski) and maybes (Skinner) of staying with their teams, and if Pavelski does will SJ their aspirations to sign EK diminish a bit.

 

Panarins going to make 10million, maybe more and they made a good case that his value is at least on par with Tavares who we all know was offered 13 by SJ last year so who knows.   

 

Alex Edler made the list as the 17th best in his UFA class and assuredly will re-sign...that said EK (1)and maybe Gardiner (9)  or Myers (15) would be better targets.  All are younger and their underlying numbers show they do have value to their respective teams (Gardiner is their Edler, a goat at whipping boy, but surprisingly they can’t win without him in the lineup as they found out late in the season). 

 

If Benning wants to make a splash and do something to improve the team now, Skinner seems like a good choice as does Duchene (who is probably going to stay in CLB, he loves it there...but will he love it as much without Bob and Bread). Both players would make our top six that much more dangerous.   Duchene and Skinner are fast enough for today’s NHL.  

 

Edler will most likely be back, but adding Meyers would also help.  Size on defense is still important. 

 

Of all them if we could have any of them I’d pick EK.  There are 40% more left shooters in the league on defense, RHD are ar a premium and he’s the best in the world and will be for a long time yet.  Sure it will cost us 11 x 7.  But by five years from now it will be palatable....and it’s our biggest weakness.  Hughes and Karlsson could anchor our top four, and wow that PP would be deadly.  

 

Factually Benning could go full hog and sign Skinner and EK and Boeser.  Let Edler walk.  And rebuilding is done, we’d enter our own window, draft Boldy to add another sniper ....  and good times ahead ...

 

 

[CaptKirk888]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:25 PM, ilduce39 said:

If only Demko, Tanev and a 2nd would do it.

Raymond, Ballard and a first. Sorry couldn’t resist.

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

THN recent mag is titled Game Changers and is about what they are calling the greatest free agent class of all-time.  And if only a few of the top players re-sign with their teams it will likely be just that.  Of the top ten only Duchene, Pavelski and Skinner seem to be between locks (Pavelski) and maybes (Skinner) of staying with their teams, and if Pavelski does will SJ their aspirations to sign EK diminish a bit.

 

Panarins going to make 10million, maybe more and they made a good case that his value is at least on par with Tavares who we all know was offered 13 by SJ last year so who knows.   

 

Alex Edler made the list as the 17th best in his UFA class and assuredly will re-sign...that said EK (1)and maybe Gardiner (9)  or Myers (15) would be better targets.  All are younger and their underlying numbers show they do have value to their respective teams (Gardiner is their Edler, a goat at whipping boy, but surprisingly they can’t win without him in the lineup as they found out late in the season). 

 

If Benning wants to make a splash and do something to improve the team now, Skinner seems like a good choice as does Duchene (who is probably going to stay in CLB, he loves it there...but will he love it as much without Bob and Bread). Both players would make our top six that much more dangerous.   Duchene and Skinner are fast enough for today’s NHL.  

 

Edler will most likely be back, but adding Meyers would also help.  Size on defense is still important. 

 

Of all them if we could have any of them I’d pick EK.  There are 40% more left shooters in the league on defense, RHD are ar a premium and he’s the best in the world and will be for a long time yet.  Sure it will cost us 11 x 7.  But by five years from now it will be palatable....and it’s our biggest weakness.  Hughes and Karlsson could anchor our top four, and wow that PP would be deadly.  

 

Factually Benning could go full hog and sign Skinner and EK and Boeser.  Let Edler walk.  And rebuilding is done, we’d enter our own window, draft Boldy to add another sniper ....  and good times ahead ...

 

 

Been waiting for someone to mention Skinner. There's the scoring winger we need. He just turned 27 (same age as Panarin) and would be perfect for our Top 6 for the next 4-5 years. He'd also be the bridge to competing now toward contending as many of our youth mature into their prime within those 4-5 years.

 

Only concern is his injury history but we need a goal scorer of that caliber. And one that's not 29/30 years old.

 

Skinner in the lineup would also have a positive effect/influence on Boeser (goal scorer to goal scorer). 

 

Agree with you about Duchene, too. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Been waiting for someone to mention Skinner. There's the scoring winger we need. He just turned 27 (same age as Panarin) and would be perfect for our Top 6 for the next 4-5 years. He'd also be the bridge to competing now toward contending as many of our youth mature into their prime within those 4-5 years.

 

Only concern is his injury history but we need a goal scorer of that caliber. And one that's not 29/30 years old.

 

Skinner in the lineup would also have a positive effect/influence on Boeser (goal scorer to goal scorer). 

 

Agree with you about Duchene, too. 

Yes I’m secretly crossing both fingers behind my back that’s Benning can make that one work...problem is UFAs have a week to explore both their teams ask and others before July 1 and most sign right at the deadline with existing clubs.  Not sure he wants to stay in Buffalo but with Eichel as his center it might be tempting.  Same with EP or Horvat.  Since 2013 payers have a week to explore all options before July 1 or the start of free agency, and they have padded their wallets big time too.  They get to say well so and so is offering me this and it’s spiked their pay days (especially for those at the top of the food chain).  If Bennings interested he might have to add to whomever he’s pitching to, that’s the way the game is played now, and is also part of why LE is making six million (like an auction you get bid up). 

 

Prior to this teams would line up literally to talk to top UFAs and many were signed soon after .... now deals are already done which is why so many deals are signed on the first day.

 

Skinner would be a tremendous add, he’s in his prime, relatively young and has a lot of skill.   His suggested cost is 6-7 million which is completely palatable.  Injuries are a concern but when he plays he’s a very good add to the top six.   20-25 goals would mean a world of difference to Vancouver (approx difference from who he’d replace) and we’d have balanced scoring which is hard to defend against.....

 

 

On this subject.   If a team likes Edler and wants him, he can use this as leverage against Benning.  Personally I hope he’s got a number in mind and over it he lets him walk.  

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes I’m secretly crossing both fingers behind my back that’s Benning can make that one work...problem is UFAs have a week to explore both their teams ask and others before July 1 and most sign right at the deadline with existing clubs.  Not sure he wants to stay in Buffalo but with Eichel as his center it might be tempting.  Same with EP or Horvat.  Since 2013 payers have a week to explore all options before July 1 or the start of free agency, and they have padded their wallets big time too.  They get to say well so and so is offering me this and it’s spiked their pay days (especially for those at the top of the food chain).  If Bennings interested he might have to add to whomever he’s pitching to, that’s the way the game is played now, and is also part of why LE is making six million (like an auction you get bid up). 

 

Prior to this teams would line up literally to talk to top UFAs and many were signed soon after .... now deals are already done which is why so many deals are signed on the first day.

 

Skinner would be a tremendous add, he’s in his prime, relatively young and has a lot of skill.   His suggested cost is 6-7 million which is completely palatable.  Injuries are a concern but when he plays he’s a very good add to the top six.   20-25 goals would mean a world of difference to Vancouver (approx difference from who he’d replace) and we’d have balanced scoring which is hard to defend against.....

 

 

On this subject.   If a team likes Edler and wants him, he can use this as leverage against Benning.  Personally I hope he’s got a number in mind and over it he lets him walk.  

Benning may want to consider going high on an offer to Skinner - say $7 mill per - but mid-bridge on Boeser given the sophomore struggles.

 

Skinner is a 30-40 goal scorer coming off a contract of 5.75 per. I'd say right now Boeser should get that type of money and Skinner the 7-8 range. That makes sense to me.

 

I know what you're saying with the whole week thing and how easier it is to simply resign with the same team but I think playing with Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes is pretty attractive. 

 

And then there's the whole ... dude, it's Buffalo. Sign here and you don't have to drive a muscle car and hang at the mall to be cool.

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Dr. Crossbar
.

[IBatch]

50 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Benning may want to consider going high on an offer to Skinner - say $7 mill per - but mid-bridge on Boeser given the sophomore struggles.

 

Skinner is a 30-40 goal scorer coming off a contract of 5.75 per. I'd say right now Boeser should get that type of money and Skinner the 7-8 range. That makes sense to me.

 

I know what you're saying with the whole week thing and how easier it is to simply resign with the same team but I think playing with Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes is pretty attractive. 

 

And then there's the whole ... dude, it's Buffalo. Sign here and you don't have to drive a muscle car and hang at the mall to be cool.

 

 

 

That’s funny, don’t know what you do in Buffalo but it sounds about right.   I agree with what your saying about the pay too,  second contracts aren’t supposed to be the money deals players need to earn it first then get paid.

[Dr. Crossbar]

16 minutes ago, IBatch said:

That’s funny, don’t know what you do in Buffalo but it sounds about right.   I agree with what your saying about the pay too,  second contracts aren’t supposed to be the money deals players need to earn it first then get paid.

Think about it ... Skinner is literally a proven 30-40 goal scorer, was making 5.75 ... hard to reconcile giving Boeser $8 mill when he hasn't done what Skinner has.

 

Boeser doesn't deserve Uber IPO money even though he may be able to get it ... hopefully people can see what I'm saying ... not a good foundation and not good for the game.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Dr. Crossbar
.

[Tomatoes11]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Think about it ... Skinner is literally a proven 30-40 goal scorer, was making 5.75 ... hard to reconcile giving Boeser $8 mill when he hasn't done what Skinner has.

 

Boeser doesn't deserve Uber IPO money even though he may be able to get it ... hopefully people can see what I'm saying ... not a good foundation and not good for the game.

He is getting at least 6.5 for sure, I am thinking 7 or 8 knowing Benning.

 

You can thank the Nylander contract and the leafs first round exit for that. No way we are going to let Boeser hold out an entire season. Dim Jim probably thinks we are a shoe in for the playoffs next year even though we are definitely not, he won’t risk Boeser holding out. He is going to pay him. 

 

Keep in mind we are paying Beagle like almost 4 million. Boeser is worth a lot more than 1 or 1.5 million more than frisking Schaller and Beagle.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Tomatoes11

[JesseBlue]

Having a healthy Baertschi is the scorer that we need and already have. I'd much rather spend the free agent money getting a stud defenceman like EK65 or convince the tree to come back. 

Enough of the middling/bottom forwards and mediocre pieces.

But what do i know? Im not the gm

 

 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Think about it ... Skinner is literally a proven 30-40 goal scorer, was making 5.75 ... hard to reconcile giving Boeser $8 mill when he hasn't done what Skinner has.

 

Boeser doesn't deserve Uber IPO money even though he may be able to get it ... hopefully people can see what I'm saying ... not a good foundation and not good for the game.

Hey you don’t have to worry about convincing me, a 5.5-6 is right about where he should be getting paid.   Skinner will get 7 somewhere, maybe more he’s earned it.  Tavares was a top young center with a great pedigree and he got 5 when he signed his second contract, yes I know the caps gone up but that’s an example of how things used to be pre- McDavid.   Eichel is maybe an ok Tavares comparable and he got 10 (Tavares would have got 7.5 by comparison his second contract).   Times are changing.  Doughty, Wheeler and EK had to wait for their money deals, now guys are getting third contract money right away it seems.  

 

THN has Boeser at 6-7 which is the Nylander affect.   His agent is armed with tape showing Boeser is the better player ... at least they won’t get as much as they could have had Boeser played every game. 

 

Theres nothing wrong with paying a guy 5-6 million coming off an ELC,  its a fantastic wage and shows that player can play.    If he gets 8 it’s way too much.

[oldnews]

You can't really answer a question like this not knowing:

 

1) what UFAs will be interested in signing here

and

2) what trade opportunities will emerge in the offseason.

What I think you can do regardless, is generate a framework of a plan you intend to pursue.

 

Identify your shorter term needs - and then assess what the longer term projections at those positions are.

 

For example, the team might need a top 6 LW to play with EP - or could opt for a center/winger to complement him....

It could also use another RHD in the absence of Gudbranson - one that could either fill a shutdown role, or play a dual role in supporting Tanev (to not have to handle the bulk of hard minutes - perhaps making him a bit more durable if they're fortunate) while also providing some two way minutes - perhaps ideally a guy that could anchor Hughes while also handling some larger minutes (pk, shutdown) at the same time.

 

In whatever case you're also looking at who is in the system - and who they're likely to draft at 10 (something they will know before going to the UFA market July 1st).

Presently the wingers in the system may be the least deep of ppsitions (not really a concern imo as they also tend to be the most readily available assest)....but before going out and signing a winger to maximum term/cap, the implications not only on future pieces at that position - but also the larger cap structure moving forward - have to be taken into account.

This is why I'd lean strongly away from the big fish wingers in free agency, regardless of the shorter term uptick they might provide on Pettersson's wing.    Another complication is the type of player that best complements him - imo a reason to again steer clear of a Panarin type signing - is the the EP line (with Boeser) - could use some size, forecheck and hard areas presence (and down low defensive support for a young, undersized EP).   For these reasons I'd target a different 'type' of forward - and in addition, when looking at cap flexibility movign forward (and imo the most important phase in this respect will likely be a few years in the future, not the present) - when you look at those factors, I think it's 'better' to target the more mid range forwardsm, ideally ones that are more versatile, can play up and down the lineup in due course (for me those are guys like Brock Nelson, not Panarin).  Like Panarin, Skinner imo is too (even more) one-dimensional and not the type of forward this team should target, in spite of the (isolated) upside it could bring (at too heavy an overall price imo).

 

Likewise with the right side of the blueline.....before signing long term pieces, it's important imo to consider things like

1) what will be the effect on Hughes' role here - if for example - you were to sign an Erik Karlsson?  EK may be a RHD - but as a puck mover and 1st unit PP guy - you're overlapping key roles in signing a player like that, for long term and huge cap.  I'd be more inclined to stay the course, and let's see what we have in Hughes - imo if this team is going to win in the future it will be principally in the hands of the drafted players this franchise is developing.   The necessary tweaks/situational additions necessary will emerge in due course, when theyre' in a competiive position - imo that is when you use your flexibility - as opposed to spend it up front as some advocates of big fish shopping this summer are on about.

 

So I think the plan is this:

 

1) stay the course.  keep drafting, developing and supporting those young players with the right 'foundation' players - the guys that can handle the hard minutes, shutdown minutes, etc while providing as much opportunity as possible for the emerging core.   That depth is important -whether people realize it or not - in the present - whether or not the team is 'contending'.  They provide the right conditions for young guys like EP and Hughes to be successful - critically important imo.

 

2) Avoid spending assets if possible, by looking to the reasonably priced mid range players in the free agent market, possibly as a priority over going to the trade market, which tends to be more complicated and less reliable source.

So for me the principal shorter term needs are a LW with some size, and some harder elements to their game (or at least ability to survive/thrive in the harder areas) - so I'd target players like Nelson, Lee.....and lately my mind has changed to a certain extent regarding a player like Maroon.  He's stilll not a great two-way player (still has not particularly impressive 'underlying numbers', etc)  - but imo he is notably improved without the puck (over previous years) - and as annoying as he was, he's kind of grown on me as a player.   What Maroon did on McDavid's line was a bit of a career-rescue for him - and watching him in the present, he's more mindful of a defensive player - who brings size, grit, and more consistency than in the past.  I think I'd move him into a list of principal targets as a good placeholder option as a winger for EP - one that probably wouldn't take a great deal of cap and term to sign (he's at 1.75 million this year on a one year deal - I'd be open to offering him a couple years at a bit of a raise, while dangling the carrot of playing with EP if he shows up motivated.

Secondly - the right side of the blueline - with a pretty solid Jet Woo on the way - I'd be avoiding the big fish - and looking principally at a guy like Stralman, who could help anchor that right side and be a reasonably termed placeholder who likely won't command a lot of term at 32 yrs of age - while being a very solid presence on any right side.

 

3)  Failing the UFA market, and depending on what is added in the draft, particularly at 10th overall - there is always the trade market - particularly with teams starting to hedge their rosters heading towards another expansion draft - which is another reason to be 'conservative' in approach and retain as much flexibility as possible moving forward.   Some folks in here proposing to take on Lucic type deals imo don't understand the lack of leverage Edmonton has in attempting to move a NMC at this stage. 

 

In any event, even if the trade market is not a priority - you always have to be looking to improve in any way or form possible - so if you can add a reasonably young RHD, you're always looking to do so.  For me, the preferable way to do that (best case) is to sign a guy like Stralman, and then if you're able to move a Tanev for a younger fixture (like a Cernak, Foote, Mayfield) - you have made a pretty good step forward in 'rebuiding/tooling' the right side.    Ristolainen is of course a nice option if that's a possibility, but hard to assess the 'reality' of an option like that.

 

If they sign a versatile center/winger like Nelson, then you take the pressure off a player like Gaudette if you were to move a player like Sutter. 

I think if they were to manage to sign a pair of forwards - ie a two way center and a player like Maroon - they could be in a position to trade a more 'foundational' piece like Sutter - but in the absence of doing so, he remains very important in enabling a player like EP, and maintaining a secondary scoring second line like Horvat's - whose line could also benefit a lot from maintaining the depth it currently has with Sutter/Beagle lines.  If they're looking to the trade market, a player like Boone Jenner would be at the absolute top of my wish list where forwards are concerned - and it may  be an opportune time to deal with the CBJ, depending on their plans with expiring contracts and the cap flexibility they may or may not have this summer.  Regardless, I think it's highly likely a few forwards are shed, maybe by trade, maybe simply waived/dumped in the process this summer.

 

1) stay the course

2) be active in the mid range UFA market

3) in spite of 1 and 2, remain vigilant in the trade market, because none of the above are necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by oldnews

[Kootenay Gold]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

You can't really answer a question like this not knowing:

 

1) what UFAs will be interested in signing here

and

2) what trade opportunities will emerge in the offseason.

What I think you can do regardless, is generate a framework of a plan you intend to pursue.

 

Identify your shorter term needs - and then assess what the longer term projections at those positions are.

Great post oldnews..... Very well thought out.