Free agency or Trade???

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Neither. Just don’t piss away picks and take your chances with , what the Baertschi, benning, motte, and Dorset lovers call, super inconsequential long shot 2nd and 3rd picks that never amount to anything. 

 

Then just dip into your farm or waivers for the rest.

2	31	NY Islanders	Mikko Koskinen	G	Blues [SM-liiga]	59	0	2	2	2	2018-19
2	32	Detroit	Landon Ferraro	C	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]	77	7	5	12	29	2017-18
2	33	Colorado	Ryan O'Reilly	C	Erie Otters [OHL]	733	183	316	499	96	2018-19
2	34	Atlanta	Carl Klingberg	L	Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)	12	1	0	1	4	2014-15
2	35	Los Angeles	Kyle Clifford	L	Barrie Colts [OHL]	607	54	61	115	774	2018-19
2	36	Phoenix	Chris Brown	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	23	2	1	3	21	2015-16
2	37	Anaheim	Mat Clark	D	Brampton Battalion [OHL]	9	0	1	1	6	2014-15
2	38	Dallas	Alex Chiasson	R	Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]	454	81	81	162	254	2018-19
2	39	Ottawa	Jakob Silfverberg	R	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)	492	117	135	252	146	2018-19
2	40	Edmonton	Anton Lander	C	Timra IK [SEL]	215	10	25	35	56	2016-17
2	41	Nashville	Zach Budish	R	Edina H.S. (Minn.)
2	42	Nashville	Charles-Olivier Roussel	D	Shawinigan Cataractes [QMJHL]
2	43	San Jose	William Wrenn	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]
2	44	Florida	Drew Shore	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	94	9	17	26	28	2016-17
2	45	Atlanta	Jeremy Morin	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	82	10	12	22	69	2014-15
2	46	Ottawa	Robin Lehner	G	Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)	265	0	4	4	22	2018-19
2	47	NY Rangers	Ethan Werek	C	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2	48	St. Louis	Brett Ponich	D	Portland Winter Hawks [WHL]
2	49	Colorado	Stefan Elliott	D	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]	87	8	17	25	16	2018-19
2	50	Toronto	Kenny Ryan	R	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]
2	51	Carolina	Brian Dumoulin	D	New Hampshire Jr. Monarchs	319	10	64	74	84	2018-19
2	52	Tampa Bay	Richard Panik	R	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]	410	75	84	159	220	2018-19
2	53	Vancouver	Anton Rodin	R	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)	3	0	1	1	0	2016-17
2	54	New Jersey	Eric Gelinas	D	Lewiston MAINEiacs [QMJHL]	189	14	41	55	92	2016-17
2	55	Washington	Dmitri Orlov	D	Novokuznetsk Metallurg [KHL]	447	33	120	153	169	2018-19
2	56	Columbus	Kevin Lynch	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]
2	57	San Jose	Taylor Doherty	D	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2	58	Toronto	Jesse Blacker	D	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0	2014-15
2	59	Chicago	Brandon Pirri	C	Georgetown Raiders [OJHL]	259	72	47	119	83	2018-19
2	60	Detroit	Tomas Tatar	L	Zvolen HKm [Slovak]	507	144	142	286	180	2018-19
2	61	Pittsburgh	Philip Samuelsson	D	Chicago Steel [USHL]	13	0	0	0	2	2015-16

 

 

There you go Tomatoe, I just picked a draft from 10 years ago and didn't look at any others.  Some good players there no doubt.  Let's see how many players never reached 100 games in the NHL (fizzled out of the league or never made it).  

 

19 out of 30.  So 63% of the 2nd round picks never amounted to nothing.  

 

Would you like to look at the 3rd round?  21 out 30 never stuck around the NHL.  

 

Those are the stats man, you can go and invest all of your earnings into roulette at the casino but the ODDS are that you will lose.  

[IBatch]

At this point it’s time to seriously take stock and see what sort of interest is available for JV.    If there is a team out there that is high on his skill set and thinks he’s about to break out and willing to send us back an exciting young RHD with equal or better opportunity I’d probably do it.  I’m fine with any trade that makes sense even with a core guy (Horvat, EP, Hughes or Boeser) although it would have to be one that helps us out in the short and the long term.   Markstroms name has been floating around but I don’t think that we’d win that trade, and in the end will have to leave him exposed to the Seattle draft and hope they don’t take him. 

 

As far as UFAs go Gardiner, Stralman and Myers make some sense.  Our RHD will likely mostly have to be made out of free agents and trades, Woo is just not enough even if he’s Bieksa 2.0 or better.   As long as the term and cap hit is reasonable these guys are no brainers.   They are serviceable vets, not stars.

 

As far as going for an elite UFA this off season is a little early BUT they don’t come around all that often and YES we should be going after them every time over the next five-seven years.  They are difference makers and don’t decline the same way as the rest of the upper tier.  LE, Neal, Lucic, Foligno, Laad, Okposo and on and on..fair warning about Lee and whomever else could be classed into second tier players, they don’t usually work out.   Same with Ferland.

 

In summation our team is already close, add some good players in the top six and on defense will only help....either way.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

Both plus the draft.  Collect all the assets, haha.  My offseason would be:

 

sign Panarin

sign Schenn

 

trade for Ristolainen (even including higher pick next year if needed)

trade for Puljujarvi if price is low

 

buyout/sign Tryamkin 

 

draft Boldy/Zegras/Caufield/Turcotte

 

trade away Sutter, Tanev, Granlund, Pouliot

 

Panarin Pettersson Puljujarvi 

Pearson Horvat Boeser

Baertchi Gaudette Leivo

Roussel Beagle Motte

Eriksson

 

Edler Ristolainen

Hughes Tryamkin

Joulevi Stecher

Hutton Schenn

 

Yes!  Just knock Puljujarvi a couple of lines down since he's got a lot to prove.  

Don't forget that we need to sign Edler, Hutton, Brogan Rafferty, Motte, Leivo and Boeser. That's a lot of work ahead of GMJB.

[appleboy]

UFA's.

One year deals for someone who might be a reclamation project with the intent of trading at the deadline. 

 

Unless it is a steal of a deal on a top end 26 / 27 year old who you can see will be solid for the next 5 years. You can't over pay because it will set your salary structure out of whack.  We don't need a twelve million dollar man.

[Maginator]

It hurts my brain too much thinking about it. #inbenningwetrust

[higgyfan]

13 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am a little all over the place on this one....

 

I think using draft for the most part is the way to go, but

I also think moving out older veterans or extra players for picks is a good idea at this point.

In saying that, a couple of high end UFA's would be a good idea...1 LW and 1 RHD

and then keep on building

 

I think it will be something like that anyways

I am ambivalent as well.

 

I agree that using the draft is the way to go, but I also think that the team needs to continue making headway.  I would like to see the team as contenders by the time the current core is around 23-27 yrs old. 

 

In order to do this, the team needs to upgrade players in key positions, which will help the core players reach their potential. This is unlikely going to come from the prospect pool, as those players are 2-4 years away from joining the club.  Allowing young players to percolate in their development process is not a bad thing.

 

We all know that LW and RD are needed right away, but it would also be great if a decent RW could be added to support Bo's line.

 

If management chooses the route of signing high end players, they must be very careful with the big cap, terms and the upcoming Ex Draft.  High end UFAs usually demand big salaries, long terms and NTC/NMCs, and that could be deadly for a team as it comes out of its rebuild.  There is also the effect these signings could have on upcoming star RFAs and their signings.  Every year has great UFAs coming up, so the team doesn't have to overload this year.

 

Another choice for management is to sign UFAs that are solid players, that can be signed for shorter terms without the limiting clauses.  A player like Maroon could be a good fit on Pete's line (he certainly fulfilled the need on McDs) and RHD Stralman could be good alongside any of the LD.  For Bo's line, maybe Justin Williams on the right side.  I wouldn't think that any of these guys would be expecting a long term or limiting contract.  Give them extra $ if it keeps the contract short term, without limits.

 

The big problem with adding to the team (even though improving), is what to do with the players they are replacing.  Tanev, Baer and Sutter need to be healthy in order to get a decent trade, so should remain with the team for the short term.  All RFAs should be retained; 2-way contracts for the unproven ones or simply let them walk.  JB should be on the lookout to trade or package in a trade for any of these players.

 

Canucks need to deal with Spooner and Schaller via trade, buyout or send to Utica.  Next year will be the time to deal with Loui.

 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

5 hours ago, KyGuy123 said:

 

So what would you rather do in order to improve our Team next year? 

 

Let the youth of the team, aided by some key veteran leaders, develop under a coach who understands player development.     Hey, and guess what?!   Your team has that and the growth from this year will be evident in next year's team.   Your team is closer than many of you think.    

[Kobayashi Maru]

6 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Yes!  Just knock Puljujarvi a couple of lines down since he's got a lot to prove.  

Don't forget that we need to sign Edler, Hutton, Brogan Rafferty, Motte, Leivo and Boeser. That's a lot of work ahead of GMJB.

Agreed that is a bit optimistic.  I think he’ll thrive in the right environment.

[WeneedLumme]

1 hour ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

 

 

You 2 both have Virtanen gone by next season.

Interesting...

Yeah, despite the fact that he continues to improve each year, and is likely to be the type of player we need in the playoffs, there are still a lot of posters who are determined to get rid of Jake. If anyone actually wanted to bet that Jake will be gone by next season, I would certainly take that bet, because I really can't see JB trading him.

[DrJockitch]

Probably a little of both. Can’t change the culture by just bringing players in, need to move some out. 

[Chris12345]

Both I guess? I believe in signing  depth players and drafting your core.

 

It sure would be nice to dump our clutter for picks.

 

I don't see us trading from a position of strength so a big move won't really improve the team.

[xereau]

Being opportunistic from all sources of quality players is how this team gets to the promised land.  Savy depth UFA, no big splashes.  Former high first round throw away recovery projects.  Mining the NCAA.  And of course drafting.  Drafting probably yields the best parts, but they also take the longest to emerge.  The real meat and potatoes of all winners, comes from the smart building of DEPTH.

[BCNate]

7 hours ago, combover said:

niether build through the draft. Get rid of the vets especially the non productive over priced ones  .. eriksdone sutter ect. 

 

 

This Teams is still to far away from being a Cup contender, just being a playoff contender is settling for medoritcy.

 

 

I don't think we are that far off.  Carolina, NYI, Cal, Dal, STL all missed the playoffs last year, 4 of them are in the 2nd round this year.  Colorado had 48 points 2 seasons ago, they are in the 2nd round too.  The league is pretty fluid right now.  I think we are pretty close to pushing for the playoffs, as early as next year.

 

Here is my plan master plan to get us into the playoffs next year, albeit very unrealistic:

 

B NELSON (7) -EP (1)-Boeser(8)                                    

Pearson (4)-Horvat- (5.5)  DZINGEL (7)                       

Baertschi (3.5)-Gaudette(1)-Virtanen(1.5)                  

Roussel (3) -Beagle 3) -Leivo (2)                                   

Spooner (3), Motte (1)                                                    

 

KARLSON (10)-Tanev (4.5)       

Edler (6)- Stecher (2.5)       

Hughes (1) -Schenn (2)        

Biega (1)

 

Marstrom (4)

Demko (1) 

82.5 Cap hit

 

 

Sutter, Hutton Traded for Picks/Prospects 

Goldobin, Granlund Qualified, then traded for Picks/Prospects

Pouliot not qualified

Teves, Rafferty, Brisbois, Saunter Erikson , Schaller in Utica

                   

 

[Coconuts]

I'd stay the course for the most part. Build through the draft. Reach out though, talk to Panarin and the like and at least inquire as to what it'd take. Perhaps grab a few mid tier guys and overpay with cap to save on term. 

 

We're not so flush that we can ship out our better prospects yet and we're playoff chasers not cup contenders. No point in getting stuck with high cap and term long term if we can help it. We're not at the point where grabbing a big guy like Panarin or Karlsson is gonna put us over the top as far as contending goes. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Coconuts

[Canuck Surfer]

6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I would like to see Benning make another move, which is to move our 2021 1st round pick this year

for a mid to later half  1st in the draft this year...….

 

This is not the worst idea I have ever heard.  

 

Hmmmm?

[KyGuy123]

5 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Either works, as long as the asset acquired isn't too expensive, fits the team's competitive age timing and fills positional needs (skilled grit in the top-6 wing, right-side D).

Not exactly rocket science.

It is according to our fan base though because when they go out and trade a second for Baertschi or picks and prospects for Gudbranson everyone is up in arms! 

When we dip into free agency and sign the big ticket that year ( Eriksson ) everyone screams at management. Last year I loved the Roussel contract but found the beagle contract  redundant with Sutter here. 

My whole point of the topic was do we want to sign guys to high prices and longer term deals without giving up assets or do we want to trade the assets and get guys on better contracts ( Tyler Johnson, JT Miller, William Nylander etc )

I see the top guys all commanding 8.5/11.5 million this year with the cap inflation. You could get guys that signed their deals via trade before the cap went up and they now seem like great deals compared to future free agent crops. 

Personally I hope we trade for PK Subban and try to get a forward from Tampa via trade (utilize cap space and buy cheap or get an asset with the player like Ehrhoff) 

then trade players at the deadline like Tanev, Sutter, Hutton etc to get those assets back or at least some of them. 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

It all depends on the cost/value of particular ufas and trades.  Either can be great or terrible according to how what you give up compares to what you get back.  Both involve risk, but so does standing pat while your young star players enter their prime without proper support.

[KyGuy123]

To everyone responding through the draft I agree and understand but we will be adding players through free agency and trade to compliment those prospects regardless. 

I agree the draft is 100% the best way to build our core but the topic more less is about price and term on free agents or assets and better fit ( targeted ) and on friendly deals. 

My example is Subban for 9 million for assets for 3 more years or Karlsson for 11.5/12 million for 7 or 8 years for free. 

[theo5789]

13 hours ago, combover said:

niether build through the draft. Get rid of the vets especially the non productive over priced ones  .. eriksdone sutter ect. 

 

 

This Teams is still to far away from being a Cup contender, just being a playoff contender is settling for medoritcy.

 

It would appear all the supposed Cup contenders are out this year with only two teams from last year's playoffs advancing. You never know what happens when you get to the playoffs. Will it matter if we won 80 games in the regular season and get swept in the first round? Only one team will win a Cup each year and dynasties are rare these days, so why not give yourself a shot? You will never will if you don't make the playoffs and you're aren't going to suddenly become a Cup contender overnight at some point after drafting top picks all the time (just ask Edmonton).

 

With that said, yes you build through the draft, but at what point do you make a serious push with what you do have? At some point, you just have to be good with your picks even in the 15-20 range and eventually the 20-31 range to keep your team competitive even during the good years to transition to the next core or we will just go through the cycles of rebuilding and contending. What happens if you miss out on a year or two with bad picks? No GM is perfect with their track record of drafting so it's bound to happen. Do you simply avoid trades and/or UFA to fill these gaps and just set back your rebuild? If your team is just missing a piece or two, do you just wait two more years to draft these pieces while your current ones continue to get older and exit their ELCs and potentially onto more expensive deals and not even guarantee the picks on those two years will pan out to fill those needs?

 

Also it's easy to say simply get rid of the non productive players and fill an entire roster with productive cheap players. Unfortunately no team in the NHL doesn't have some player that hasn't lived up to expectations and if it were so easy to rid themselves of them, then every team in the NHL would do so.

 

Its far too simplified thinking to think there's one way to build a team. If there is a UFA available that can take the team to another level, then you don't pass that up (of course with consideration of cap space and all). If there's a trade to get that elusive piece, like a top end/respectable RD, do you not try to trade from whatever position of strength to try to fill a position of weakness? When drafting, you should always draft BPA anyway and not by positional need, so would you pass on a potentially better player to simply get a player that fills a certain position to "build" your team?

[TheJudge]

Taking too long. Rebuild is not done yet. Need four more top players. And need to be bigger. Smallest teams out first. Stlouis is hige defence. Dallas has big forwards. Carolina loaded up with big players this year.