Goodbye Hong Kong. Nice knowing you....

[nuckin_futz]

Trump Signs Hong Kong Bill That Will Strain Relations With China

Donald Trump signed a bill into law that expresses U.S. support for Hong Kong protesters, a move that will strain relations with China and further complicate the president’s effort to wind down his trade war with Beijing.

 

Trump signed the legislation on Wednesday, the White House said in a statement.

 

The legislation, S. 1838, requires annual reviews of Hong Kong’s special trade status under American law -- and sanctions against any officials deemed responsible for human rights abuses or undermining the city’s autonomy.

 

The House cleared the bill 417-1 on Nov. 20 after the Senate passed it without opposition, veto-proof majorities that left Trump with little choice but to acquiesce.

 

While many members of Congress in both parties have voiced strong support for protesters demanding more autonomy for the city, Trump has stayed largely silent, even as the demonstrations have been met by rising police violence.

 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, called on the president to speak out, saying last week that “the world should hear from him directly that the United States stands with” the protesters.

 

China’s foreign ministry had urged Trump to prevent the legislation from becoming law, warning the Americans not to underestimate China’s determination to defend its “sovereignty, security and development interests.”

 

“If the U.S. insists on going down this wrong path, China will take strong countermeasures,” ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at a briefing Thursday in Beijing. Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zheng Zeguang summoned the U.S. ambassador, Terry Branstad, on Monday to express “strong opposition” to what the country’s government considers American interference in the protests, including the legislation, according to statement.

 

The new U.S. law comes just as Washington and Beijing have shown signs of working toward what the White House calls a “phase-one” deal to ease the trade war. Trump would like the agreement finished in order to ease economic uncertainty for his re-election campaign in 2020, and has floated the possibility of signing the deal in a farm state as an acknowledgment of the constituency that’s borne the brunt of retaliatory Chinese tariffs.

 

U.S. and Chinese trade negotiators will continue communicating closely and work toward a phase-one deal, Ministry of Commerce spokesman Gao Feng said at a briefing in Beijing on Thursday.

 

Before a speech at the Bloomberg New Economy Forum in Beijing last week, China’s Vice Premier Liu He -- the country’s chief trade negotiator -- said that he was “cautiously optimistic” about reaching the phase one accord, according to people who attended a dinner and asked not to be identified.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-27/trump-signs-hong-kong-bill-that-will-strain-relations-with-china

 

***********************

 

China has said if Trump signs this they will retaliate. It remains to be seen how they will retaliate.

 

A Phase 1 trade deal between the US and China was said to be in the final stages of completion.

 

Stay tuned for the fallout.

 

 

 

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

Trump Signs Hong Kong Bill That Will Strain Relations With China

Donald Trump signed a bill into law that expresses U.S. support for Hong Kong protesters, a move that will strain relations with China and further complicate the president’s effort to wind down his trade war with Beijing.

 

Trump signed the legislation on Wednesday, the White House said in a statement.

 

The legislation, S. 1838, requires annual reviews of Hong Kong’s special trade status under American law -- and sanctions against any officials deemed responsible for human rights abuses or undermining the city’s autonomy.

 

The House cleared the bill 417-1 on Nov. 20 after the Senate passed it without opposition, veto-proof majorities that left Trump with little choice but to acquiesce.

 

While many members of Congress in both parties have voiced strong support for protesters demanding more autonomy for the city, Trump has stayed largely silent, even as the demonstrations have been met by rising police violence.

 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, called on the president to speak out, saying last week that “the world should hear from him directly that the United States stands with” the protesters.

 

China’s foreign ministry had urged Trump to prevent the legislation from becoming law, warning the Americans not to underestimate China’s determination to defend its “sovereignty, security and development interests.”

 

“If the U.S. insists on going down this wrong path, China will take strong countermeasures,” ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at a briefing Thursday in Beijing. Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zheng Zeguang summoned the U.S. ambassador, Terry Branstad, on Monday to express “strong opposition” to what the country’s government considers American interference in the protests, including the legislation, according to statement.

 

The new U.S. law comes just as Washington and Beijing have shown signs of working toward what the White House calls a “phase-one” deal to ease the trade war. Trump would like the agreement finished in order to ease economic uncertainty for his re-election campaign in 2020, and has floated the possibility of signing the deal in a farm state as an acknowledgment of the constituency that’s borne the brunt of retaliatory Chinese tariffs.

 

U.S. and Chinese trade negotiators will continue communicating closely and work toward a phase-one deal, Ministry of Commerce spokesman Gao Feng said at a briefing in Beijing on Thursday.

 

Before a speech at the Bloomberg New Economy Forum in Beijing last week, China’s Vice Premier Liu He -- the country’s chief trade negotiator -- said that he was “cautiously optimistic” about reaching the phase one accord, according to people who attended a dinner and asked not to be identified.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-27/trump-signs-hong-kong-bill-that-will-strain-relations-with-china

 

***********************

 

China has said if Trump signs this they will retaliate. It remains to be seen how they will retaliate.

 

A Phase 1 trade deal between the US and China was said to be in the final stages of completion.

 

Stay tuned for the fallout.

 

 

 

It's disappointing that the headline had a negative tone against Trump, especially when this is a bipartisan effort from the houses.  

 

The headline should have been, "Trump signs bipartisan bill supporting HK pro-democracy movement".  

[Kragar]

3 hours ago, Lancaster said:

It's disappointing that the headline had a negative tone against Trump, especially when this is a bipartisan effort from the houses.  

 

The headline should have been, "Trump signs bipartisan bill supporting HK pro-democracy movement".  

Can't be surprised at that, though.

 

If Trump miraculously found the cure for cancer, Bloomberg and CNN headlines would be how Trump is putting oncologists out of work.

[nuckin_futz]

8 hours ago, Lancaster said:

It's disappointing that the headline had a negative tone against Trump, especially when this is a bipartisan effort from the houses.  

 

The headline should have been, "Trump signs bipartisan bill supporting HK pro-democracy movement".  

It's from Bloomberg. Their reporting is finance related. While this is a positive for the protestors, it's a negative for financial markets given the importance placed on achieving a trade deal with China.

[Lancaster]

7 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

It's from Bloomberg. Their reporting is finance related. While this is a positive for the protestors, it's a negative for financial markets given the importance placed on achieving a trade deal with China.

Of course, just there's a slight negative insinuation against Trump... which while there are lots of issues with him... as this is a bipartisan bill, Trump couldn't even have vetoed it if he wanted to.  

I understand whatever politicking is done between Democrats and Republicans... but both sides should be circling the wagon in regards to the pro-democracy movement in HK.  

 

If anything, Bloomberg News should realize that a democratic society tends to be better for business, especially compared to a regime with opaque legal systems, corruptions and poor financial oversights.  

[ronthecivil]

China can't beat the US financially, that's for sure. If they keep their game up of blocking shipments and stuff, the US can just default on the TRILLIONS of dollars they owe China, stop buying their stuff, etc. China will have the economic prospects of North Korea if they keep it up....

[nuckin_futz]

2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

China can't beat the US financially, that's for sure. If they keep their game up of blocking shipments and stuff, the US can just default on the TRILLIONS of dollars they owe China, stop buying their stuff, etc. China will have the economic prospects of North Korea if they keep it up....

Firstly, they don't owe China anything. China has purchased US treasury bonds. And they are free to dump them at anytime they wish thus driving the yields through the roof. When you're $21 trillion dollars in debt you probably don't want the yield you must pay on that debt ballooning. Especially when you're dependent on debt due to running trillion dollar yearly deficits.

 

While China is the largest foreign holder of US treasuries they do not hold TRILLIONS worth. They hold $1.18 Trillion worth (5.6% of all US Treasuries). Japan is right behind them with $1.03 Trillion in US Treasuries. Other significant holders are Brazil, Ireland, UK, Hong Kong.

 

70.7% of the US debt is held domestically. Between US investors, US government and the Federal Reserve. So good luck defaulting on it.

 

The situation is a little more complex than you've made it out to be.

Edited November 29, 2019 by nuckin_futz

[Ronaldoescobar]

6 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Watch the police insert moles into the march whose job will be to appear to incite violence - and thus legitimize the cancellation of the protest and usage of tear gas on the protesters.

 

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1496355-20191206.htm

 

Could definitely see that happening. 

[canuckster19]

11 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

They've been doing that throughout the last half year.  Plenty of photos in the wild of "protesters" who get their cover as moles blown when they're photographed tossing molotovs and their firearm gets exposed.

 

Those who insist on living in ignorance choose to blame the protesters for the mayhem.    

(or else they have an ulterior motive, like the government or the police, who wish to ensure that their authority goes unchallenged)

The problem is sheep mentality, they think it's one of their own doing it so they go along with it instead of you know, taking them out. If I were to lead a protest group, I never would, but if I did, I would have a zero tolerance policy on incitement of violence, and take down anyone who did.

 

I'm seriously disappointed in Vancouver and British Columbians that let a few morons run amok in 2011. Put the fear of god and retribution in those f-ers and they'll march home with their tails between their legs.

Edited December 6, 2019 by canuckster19

[Kragar]

45 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

As parliamentarians go, I'm going to miss this one - if not because of his wealth of knowledge, then at least because of his cries of "ORRRRR-DURRRRRRRRRRRR!!"

 

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1497026-20191211.htm

Quote

"The Hong Kong government must wake up to the fact that unless they listen to the will of the people Party, Hong Kong as we know it is dead, or die"

Fixed  

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Fixed  

Are the HK police we see in riot gear Hong Kong citizens, or Chinese police brought over?

[Kragar]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Are the HK police we see in riot gear Hong Kong citizens, or Chinese police brought over?

Dunno, but that sounds like an astute question.  No scotch yet?  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Kragar said:

Dunno, but that sounds like an astute question.  No scotch yet?  

Not yet, but soon.  

[Kragar]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Not yet, but soon.  

I'm sure you will sip it. 

 

The Leafs can suck it! GCG!

[bishopshodan]

41 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1497888-20191216.htm

 

Nobody wants your half-assed "review" committee.  The people want a proper commission of inquiry that can subpoena witnesses and compel testamony, one that has investigative powers and stands independent of the government.

 

Hong Kong government - take your "review" committee and shove it up your rectal orifice.

Hey there,

Just wanted to thank you for the updates regarding this. I feel it doesn't get enough coverage. I appreciate your effort to keep us informed.

[Chicken.]

I saw a new article and it's unfortunate this thread has been buried, as has the entire situation, and been forgotten mostly with the pandemic.

 

Is anything actually ever going to be done about this? The entire world knows that China violates human rights, but without action, nothing will ever change.

 

It's scary to think that perhaps nothing would have been done about the Nazi concentration camps if Germany hadn't invaded Poland and kicked off WW2

Arrested protesters tortured regularly: rights group

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1525899-20200513.htm?spTabChangeable=0 

 

Quote

A human rights group, the Civil Rights Observer, has issued a report accusing the police of systematically torturing protesters arrested during Hong Kong's unrest last year, saying interviews it did with some of those detained show they were subjected to "cruel or inhuman treatment or punishment".

The group said it will submit its findings to the United Nations and relevant international civil society groups.

In light of its findings, the group urged the government to propose legislative amendments in full conformity with the UN's Committee against Torture.

It said there should be an independent body empowered to carry out effective unannounced visits at all places of police detention, and to safeguard the fundamental rights of detainees.

The founder of the group, Icarus Wong, said the report's findings indicate that Hong Kong has some of the characteristics of a "police state".

"Our human rights and liberty is not guaranteed under the law, and the law enforcement agencies do not respect human rights. So they can do anything they want," Wong said.

He said the government has to launch an independent investigation into alleged police brutality and this would be a first step towards rebuilding trust between the people and the authorities.

https://hongkongfp.com/2017/06/13/hong-kong-juvenile-inmates-forced-lick-urine-burned-boiling-food-report/ 

[kingofsurrey]

44 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

I saw a new article and it's unfortunate this thread has been buried, as has the entire situation, and been forgotten mostly with the pandemic.

 

Is anything actually ever going to be done about this? The entire world knows that China violates human rights, but without action, nothing will ever change.

 

It's scary to think that perhaps nothing would have been done about the Nazi concentration camps if Germany hadn't invaded Poland and kicked off WW2

Arrested protesters tortured regularly: rights group

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1525899-20200513.htm?spTabChangeable=0 

 

https://hongkongfp.com/2017/06/13/hong-kong-juvenile-inmates-forced-lick-urine-burned-boiling-food-report/ 

Chinese government even organizes harassement of protestors in Canada...  that protest chinese policy.

 

Canadian government needs to step and protect Canadians from this BS 

Protest is legal in Canada.   

[erkayloomeh]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:22 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Yes , Hong Kong is the sinking ship.... and Vancouver is the guy jumping in the water to save them..... only to get pulled  under ourselves.  

 

So sad.

 

Two countries in the world i would never visit... spend a dime in... would be Israel and China.

I know your post is old but I'm curious what you have against Israel 

[drummer4now]

52 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

I know your post is old but I'm curious what you have against Israel 

I am guessing it has do with the fact that both are oppressive regimes masquerading as governments. 

Both countries become very defensive and aggressive when questioned on their human rights records. 

 

[Lancaster]

Many of the protest leaders have been arrested too.  

Plus it has been confirmed that many of the "HK" police are actually from the mainland.  

 

I'm still disappointed that the international community doesn't keep focusing the 2-systems policy.  The US a little bit, but they really need to hammer China on that.