The Gaudette Conundrum

[milk and honey]

14 f 7 dman is the only solution imo if we keep current roster.

 

a trade is in the works 99% chance imo or jb is gonna see whats happening with Boeser and see if another injury happens.

 

Leivo stays. He is great as a 4th liner.

[rawkdrummer]

Move some bodies and make room for Gaudette, he’s earned it!

[Glug Datt]

I suspect that AG is intended to replace Sutter at 3C when that contract comes up..

 

While Adam has put forth a fantastic preseason, at this point he isn't ready to replace Sutter, especially weaker in the faceoff category.. He could likely see more short term NHL success on the wing, but that doesn't help his development at center.

 

For this reason, in addition to the whole waiver thing, I believe he will start the year in the A, probably as the first line C..

 

And if history has shown is anything, it won't be long before Sutter is injured and AG is back up again anyway.. 

[iceman64]

18 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Ignoring his contract, Eriksson has had a solid camp and has outperformed a number of our players.   Eriksson makes my team.   

 

Bye bye Schaller, Motte, and Goldobin.   Virtanen = 13th forward (and is also told that he’s gone when Roussel returns unless Virtanen electrifies whenever he’s in the line-up).

As true as that is about LE, well I highly doubt he'll be able to sustain it for very long, has too much.. ermm.. complacency issues and needs constant motivation which should not be needed, has 6 mil reasons already. 

[hankyndanky]

41 minutes ago, Glug Datt said:

I suspect that AG is intended to replace Sutter at 3C when that contract comes up..

 

While Adam has put forth a fantastic preseason, at this point he isn't ready to replace Sutter, especially weaker in the faceoff category.. He could likely see more short term NHL success on the wing, but that doesn't help his development at center.

 

For this reason, in addition to the whole waiver thing, I believe he will start the year in the A, probably as the first line C..

 

And if history has shown is anything, it won't be long before Sutter is injured and AG is back up again anyway.. 

3rd line will b Baertchi Gaudette Sutter - With Sutter on the wing but he takes the face offs

[DownUndaCanuck]

Based on his pre-season, Green cannot send him down or there is basically no point of pre-season. The whole reason is to separate the good from the rest of the bunch and Gaudette has done just that. He's separated himself from Goldobin and Virtanen easily, and while he's a different player to Beagle, Motte and Schaller, I think he's put a bit of separation there too just with his offence he's brought to the table. We have to start him somewhere, I think on wing to begin with:

 

Ferland - Pettersson - Boeser

Miller - Horvat - Baertschi

Pearson - Sutter - Leivo

Gaudette - Beagle - Virtanen

Eriksson

Goldobin

Motte

Schaller

 

I think we start with that and see how they perform in the first few games. Gaudette has the potential to even work his way up the lineup to replace Leivo and it's likely we'll see a rotating door with Leivo and Virtanen shuffling through the scratched guys.

[JRSJ]

He's earned it. Dont mind him on the wing, while he transitions to centerman responsibilities. Knock Sutter all you want, but he could learn from him this season.

[Captain Canuck #12]

Last year they demoted Gagner to show that they were going to honour their word and give Motte a spot on the team after he earned it.  There's no way they don't do the same with Gaudette now, especially considering how much higher his potential (and value) is, compared to Motte's.

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

Not sure why you dislike Leivo? Megna is/was a faster skater but he's inferior in every other aspect.

 

Green may like Leivo but this isn't a coaches pet situation. Leivo is pretty well rounded, has some size and a good work ethic. I'd say he has a legit shot at 18-20 goals this season. Not earth shattering but he's a very good bottom 6 option who can play the PP and jump up in the lineup when needed. At $1.5M, he's a bargain IMO.

 

I don't think Sutter ends up being the casualty. Green likes him too much. He's a real pro and a leader in that dressing room. 

 

Goldy

Eriksson

Schaller if you have to

 

Gaudette stays and Sutter plays on his wing, sharing FO duties. I think you start Baertschi on that line as well and give Pearson a chance to build on his chemistry with Bo. 

I don’t dislike Leivo - I just think the team wanted to see what he could do with first line PP time and some top six minutes .... but now with other options that experiment should run its course - and don’t like that JV hasn’t been given the same opportunity, shouldn’t be hard to add 10plus goals  to his season playing the same number of minutes on the PP and in the top six.   Maybe I was being mean calling him Megna, I get that we didn’t really have the guns last year / but the same thing for the most part this pre-season he’s continued to get primo assignments where others continue not to.   LE and Jake would also look better if they were given a turn.   He’s a bottom six guy thats done a decent job of making the best of his opportunities all things considered.   TG knows better then me and I’m glad he gave him a shot, his stocks also gone up a bit.  He’s definitely shown he belongs in the NHL at the very least as a depth option. 

[gumshoe242]

I think we'd all be willing to part with Sutter, as well.

[Battlemonger]

12 hours ago, the grinder said:

management didn't  promise a spot to anyone  ,, they said they would make room if a player earned it  , 

Huh?

[Battlemonger]

What about waiving Schaller, Goldy and Eriksson? Frees up space and cap. Big Mac can always be called up as a bottom 6 winger and a few bucks in the bank is always good when injuries hit. Gauda always ice the best team, and Gaudette is better than all three.

[189lb enforcers?]

Trade him and Virtanen and Goldy or something for Lowry and Ehlers. 

[Tracksuit]

Sutter should be on that list too. 

Never been a fan of his  and he’s done nothing since coming here to change my mind. Being average on the pk is about as one dimensional as being a goon. He wouldn’t be missed neither would LE.  

They both been disappointments on and off the ice. 

We have young players and veterans that can handle the five minutes a game these two show up for. 

Problem is no other teams  wants Le or Sutter. 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Tracksuit

[oldnews]

21 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think Adam has improved his face off technique and is much better now.  Last night he was 11/18.  Sutter loves the shut down role though, and we need that too.  Sutter has 2 seasons left and so does Besgle.  Adam isn’t taking Petey or Bo’s minutes.  

He could take Boeser's minutes though in his absence...

I think people get carried away when they extend Gaudette having earned a spot to Gaudette having earned a center role over Sutter and/or Beagle.  That is not necessarily what "meritocracy" means.  It means you make a space for a young player that has earned his way onto the roster - over the relative players he has outcompeted.  Guys like Schaller, LE, Goldobin, imo came in on the bubble and were vulnerable to being replaced if young guys like Gaudette forced their way in.   But on the other hand - guys like Sutter and Beagle have come in and had excellent preseasons themselves, building on years/careers of merit - their jobs do not get taken in 6 preseason games by a rookie imo = I think that's where the Sat Shaws of the world confuse themselves.  Improving on draws is great, but there's still a lot more to playing 3C than winning draws.  Gaudette has arguably earned a spot relative to LE, Schaller, Goldy - but the question imo becomes where is he relative to the remaining wingers in the mix (I think moving a guy like Sutter to wing is a bass ackwards approach).  

 

When it comes to meritocracy, I think it's pretty clear that Motte earned and merits a spot after an entire season of everyday hard work and performance - folks waiving him (after 2 preseason games in which he did not disappoint) imo do not grasp the larger concept of merit (which does not simply boil down to the 2 to 4 or 5 games guys get in preseason).  Gaudette may have earned a spot, but he's still in tough to take minutes from Pearson/Baertschi, Virtanen, Motte, Leivo....those are some pretty good 'bottom 6' wingers to leapfrog.  So the question is not as simple as some people make it imo - something Shortie and Cheech touched upon - do you want him playing a bottom six role - 10-12ish minutes a night or do you want him in big minutes, all situations in Utica?  Not an easy call imo.  And assigning Gaudette is in all likelihood a temporary thing if it does happen - he's looking like a player that is developing rapidly, so it's not the end of the world if he plays a lead role in Utica for a month or two or whatever.   It's in-vogue to always be 'defending' the youth culture, and it's an easy sell to a market hyped on the future, but it's not as simple as people like Shaw make it imo.

 

And I think there's another angle that might have been lost in the general tendency to pigeon-hole Gaudette into a future 3C role.  First - Gaudette has shown a whole lot of upside through his Hobey Baker and it's emerging at this level presently (albeit I think people need to keep in mind the fact that his production/performance in preseason comes largely against divided rosters that are in reality half-AHL and junior rosters, half NHLers - so the hype might want to temper a bit).   When you look at the Canucks blueline for example, half of it is Chatfield, Brisebois, Biega, (Hughes)....that is comparable to what Gaudette is producing against.   But the upside he has shown imo probably preceeds the development of his overall game - I'm not prepared to assume that Gaudette's upside will be capped as a bottom 6 center  - or that he's not capable of moving up to a top 6 winger role.  Perhaps he's the best option to move up to play with EP and Ferland in the absence of Boeser?    Not only am I not convinced that it's a great idea to put the pressure of a bottom six center (defensive) role on him prematurely, but I'm also not convinced that he won't necessarily command a top 6 type role in due course instead - his offensive talent  aditionally might just over-rule the impulse a lot of people seem to have of pencilling him into Sutter or Beagle's role.    There will likely be the patented outrage among the armchairs if Gaudette is not elevated into one of those roles but for me the irony in that it's not really informed by an overall development perspective (production is great, but hard minutes, against true NHL rosters are another thing entirely - and what it takes to play those kind of center minutes at the NHL level) - but also, perhaps he rises more than some are anticipating.  And if someone like Goldobin is waived and claimed as a result of elevating Gaudette, I sure don't want to hear a whiff of the "asset management" fallout outrage afterwards....  I think it's a great problem to have - exactly what you hope for - Gaudette is looking NHL ready - some guys may have somewhat disappointed in preseason, but there is the wealth of youth continuing to push.

[combover]

9 hours ago, JRSJ said:

He's earned it. Dont mind him on the wing, while he transitions to centerman responsibilities. Knock Sutter all you want, but he could learn from him this season.

Like how to throw his teammates under the bus, and how not to  finish his checks. Sutter the master of the turn off rarely finish a check. 

I like others am not a fan of the easily replaced sutter.

or for that matter the invisible man Eriksdone. 

I rather Gaudette learn from players that show up every night like beagle Horvat and others not contract floaters. 

 

[-AJ-]

This is one of the most difficult things I've ever decided on in the realm of the Canucks (thank goodness I'm not the one making the actual decision). After sleeping on this last night, I've flip-flopped and joined the majority now I think. I think Gaudette should be given an NHL chance, but in such a way that both Beagle and Sutter can remain on the team.

[HockeyHarry]

Is there a chance Canucks claim someone off waivers?

 

If I was Jimbo

1. Fix cap problem

2. look at all the other teams leftovers too add in making better assets for the team. This actually should #1.

3. Look at who fits best in each position. Example  (Gaud is a Center there’s no spots left, is he the best winger option?)

4. Send the non fitter to Utica. Including Gaud.

 

[Captain Canuck #12]

30 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

This is one of the most difficult things I've ever decided on in the realm of the Canucks (thank goodness I'm not the one making the actual decision). After sleeping on this last night, I've flip-flopped and joined the majority now I think. I think Gaudette should be given an NHL chance, but in such a way that both Beagle and Sutter can remain on the team.

Yes, by doing what Corey Hirsch suggested, putting Gaudette on the wing until there's an opening at centre (or possibly Sutter on wing, if that works better).

[alt kilgore]

9 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Yes, by doing what Corey Hirsch suggested, putting Gaudette on the wing until there's an opening at centre (or possibly Sutter on wing, if that works better).

Sutter on the wing. I don't know why this is even a question.  Sutter's game, what it is, is not going to get much worse or better changing positions. Use him to take face-offs for a majority of times if you like and then switch.  Sutter's ceiling as a center is done.  He's consistent, which is great, but he's a mediocre player, a support player. Gaudette is just starting to emerge, his ceiling has yet to be determined. He should be given all the opportunity to succeed at center position.....starting now.  As a support player, Sutter's job should be just than, to support Gaudette's transition to an NHL calibre center ice man.