Jake Virtanen Vs Jared McCann. Juolevi??? JB????

[Arrow 1983]

So I was looking at Virtanen's stats and i noticed who was 2 spots behind him.

 

Virtanen   14g  14a  28pts  -1   Time on ice   12:39

 

McCann  14g  14a  28pts   +15  Time on ice 15:24

 

Both players are 23 and both of course Drafted the same year in the same round.

 

What can this tell us as hockey fans, I would say this is a normal trajectory for players that are not truly gifted like guys named Hughes, Petty or other superstar players.

 

I would argue these are prime examples of why you should never right off a player. When these kids are being drafted they are still kids at 18-19 years old. Those of us that are older should know best that even 4-5 years when you are 18 can mean a major difference in who a person can become. The truth is if these kids had failed, you can easily place part of the blame on their first NHL coach and GM. These 2 guys should have never been in the league when they where and a year or 2 in the AHL could have helped their careers. 

 

This brings me to my real point of this topic his Name is Olli Juolevi, or any kid drafted by this team or any other team that has high expectations. I have been following Juolevi since he was drafted but mostly since he started his AHL career. I have watched him live and on tv streams, this kid is truly gifted but when i say that I don't mean how Hughes or Petty is. His best comparable on the current Canucks would be Bo Horvat. He is not flashy, he is not gifted offensively, but he sure does get the job done and he never stops working, the reports where true he did need to work on his defensive game and i would argue he has brought that part of his game to a whole new level in a very short time. Kind of how Horvat has changed and improved his game each and every year to make him the player he is today. If Juolevi becomes a part of this team as Horvat has i would argue no one will ever say he is a bust ever again. Juolevi is in my opinion a guy who will beat the odds and come back from injury even stronger. Don't count the kid out he is 21 years old.

 

I would say the biggest lesson JB has learn as a GM is to understand that these are kids and they all develop at their own pace and at their own time. I truly believe that JB would handle the McCann situation completely different today then he did back then. I would make the argument JB has come a long way as a GM. As a Canuck fan i am proud to have JB as GM (not for how he has drafted but how he manages the players) and TG as coach. Green has done wonders for Virtanen and even though we can never know, I believe he was the right Coach for guys like Boeser, Hughes, and Petty. (In this era i would say it's not just about winning it is how a team goes about winning). This season I believe have shown their is a culture of respect between the players coaches and management. This season is having a feeling of something special.

 

So before you ask why aren't they calling up Rafferty (this guy looks like a stud, play wise not look wise LOL) or any other of the young guys maybe just remember there might be a plan.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Arrow 1983

[Alflives]

McCann is a punk.  

[Arrow 1983]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

McCann is a punk.  

the level of your maturity astounds me  

[luckylager]

McCann was a casualty of need. We needed a big boy to play on our back end and Guddy looked to be worth the risk at the time.

 

But let's compare him to Pearson now.

McCann 28pts, +15

Pearson 37pts, +5, toi 16:29

 

McCann is good, but Pearson is better

[Junkyard Dog]

It is what it is.

[Fanuck]

Jake is developing into the player many of us, from the beginning,  believed he had the potential to become. 

 

Every prospect has to take their own path in their career - it's commonplace,  but not necessarily productive,  to compare draft pick development. 

 

Let's just appreciate that Jake's getting there!  So will OJ imo.

[Arrow 1983]

4 minutes ago, luckylager said:

McCann was a casualty of need. We needed a big boy to play on our back end and Guddy looked to be worth the risk at the time.

 

But let's compare him to Pearson now.

McCann 28pts, +15

Pearson 37pts, +5, toi 16:29

 

McCann is good, but Pearson is better

I think both McCann and Virtanen where casualties of need, they where at the time the best the Canucks could muster, it wasn't the best for their careers  

[oldnews]

30 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

So I was looking at Virtanen's stats and i noticed who was 2 spots behind him.

 

Virtanen   14g  14a  28pts  -1   Time on ice   12:39

 

McCann  14g  14a  28pts   +15  Time on ice 15:24

 

Both players are 23 and both of course Drafted the same year in the same round.

 

What can this tell us as hockey fans, I would say this is a normal trajectory for players that are not truly gifted like guys named Hughes, Petty or other superstar players.

 

I would argue these are prime examples of why you should never right off a player. When these kids are being drafted they are still kids at 18-19 years old. Those of us that are older should know best that even 4-5 years when you are 18 can mean a major difference in who a person can become. The truth is if these kids had failed, you can easily place part of the blame on their first NHL coach and GM. These 2 guys should have never been in the league when they where and a year or 2 in the AHL could have helped their careers. 

 

This brings me to my real point of this topic his Name is Olli Juolevi, or any kid drafted by this team or any other team that has high expectations. I have been following Juolevi since he was drafted but mostly since he started his AHL career. I have watched him live and on tv streams, this kid is truly gifted but when i say that I don't mean how Hughes or Petty is. His best comparable on the current Canucks would be Bo Horvat. He his not flashy he is not gifted offensively but he sure does get the job done and he never stops working, the reports where true he did need to work on his defensive game and i would argue he has brought that part of his game to a whole new level in a very short time. Kind of how Horvat has changed and improved his game each and every year to make him the player he is today. If Juolevi becomes a part of this team as Horvat has i would argue no one will ever say he is a bust ever again. Juolevi is in my opinion a guy who will beat the odds and come back from injury even stronger. Don't count the kid out he is 21 years old.

 

I would say the biggest lesson JB has learn as a GM is to understand that these are kids and they all develop at their own pace and at their own time. I truly believe that JB would handle the McCann situation completely different today then he did back then. I would make the argument JB has come a long way as a GM. As a Canuck fan i am proud to have JB as GM (not for how he has drafted but how he manages the players) and TG as coach. Green has done wonders for Virtanen and even though we can never know, I believe he was the right Coach for guys like Boeser, Hughes, and Petty. (In this era i would say it's not just about winning it is how a team goes about winning). This season I believe have shown their is a culture of respect between the players coaches and management. This season is having a feeling of something special.

 

So before you ask why aren't they calling up Rafferty (this guy looks like a stud, play wise not look wise LOL) or any other of the young guys maybe just remember there might be a plan.

 

 

I agree regarding Juolevi - he is  an exceptionally intelligent player, with a good toolbox to work with.  I have very little doubt he will be a fixture in the Canucks top 4 for quite some time - assuming a bit of relief with his health.  He is starting to hit his stride in Utica - has 20 pts now (through 33 games) - and people seem to whiff on the fact that he is still only 21 years old.  For a two-way type D like him, there's nothing particularly concerning about not having broken into the NHL yet, particularly when so much of his development this far has been slowed by injury time.

Likewise, Lind has already fallen off some people's radar - (it takes about a blip in time) - and yet he's at 37 pts in 43 games - on a tear recently  - and again, those are pretty damn good AHL numbers for a 20 year old.  Podkolzin, Hoglander and Madden are not the only forward prospects in the system worth paying attention to.

[Arrow 1983]

9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I agree regarding Juolevi - he is  an exceptionally intelligent player, with a good toolbox to work with.  I have very little doubt he will be a fixture in the Canucks top 4 for quite some time - assuming a bit of relief with his health.  He is starting to hit his stride in Utica - has 20 pts now (through 33 games) - and people seem to whiff on the fact that he is still only 21 years old.  For a two-way type D like him, there's nothing particularly concerning about not having broken into the NHL yet, particularly when so much of his development this far has been slowed by injury time.

Likewise, Lind has already fallen off some people's radar - (it takes about a blip in time) - and yet he's at 37 pts in 43 games - on a tear recently  - and again, those are pretty damn good AHL numbers for a 20 year old.  Podkolzin, Hoglander and Madden are not the only forward prospects in the system worth paying attention to.

I see Juolevi as Edlers replacement after next season, and for next season our 6-7 dman. I would say if he follows that path he would be a fixture on this team at 23. 

[Devron]

It’s kind of funny how for years JB wanted to acquire a right handed offensive D man. We may have just landed one in Rafferty. It’s too early to really tell with how he will transition to the NHL but I can’t help but get excited. 
 

As far a Joulevi like JV I’ve been pretty adamant that we need to be patient with him especially after the injuries and a early as his second year of Junior.

I’m excited about these 2 guys and how Joulevi has stepped up even more the last couple games since Raff got injured is a huge positive sign

 

Keep them in Utica for the year. Let them play. I suspect one of them will be on the starting roster next year and the other a call up away. 
 

Hell yeah 

[DADDYROCK]

Most of the time defense men take longer to get nhl ready,as a young guy breaking into the league on defense you can be made to have flaws in your game because of the talent level of the stars of the NHL.

Olli J. will soon be ready to be a steadying force and a solid defense man for us for a long time,he is getting stronger along with his talent and will be a rock for us just when we need it the most.

It takes time for these very young players,Jake V. Adams G. etc. to get a bit of confidence and start to show that they very much deserve to be in THE SHOW.

This is why I continue to bring up patience with our very young core of good talent,it all takes time to become a star in the greatest league in the world.We are showing great signs of having some stars starting to break out and I for one am a very happy fan,a Stanley Cup would really be a good thing for B.C. in the near future.

[surtur]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Jake is developing into the player many of us, from the beginning,  believed he had the potential to become. 

 

Every prospect has to take their own path in their career - it's commonplace,  but not necessarily productive,  to compare draft pick development. 

 

Let's just appreciate that Jake's getting there!  So will OJ imo.

The thing with Jake is that all the fans that believed in him knew he was a longer term project and would need time to become the player he was drafted to become.  Everyone else was writing him off as a bust because fire JB.. amiright...

 

[timberz21]

Juolevi at 21 is still young and it takes longer for a defenseman to develop.  However, the plan when we selected him was to be a 1st pairing defenseman and that I doubt that will happen.  At his peak Juolevi might reach a #3 defenseman, but most likely will be a 4-5-6.

 

If he can become what Nicklas Hjalmarsson (maybe not style of play, but impact on the team) was for the Blackhawks, that would be a win.

Edited January 20, 2020 by timberz21

[ruilin96]

Wrong thread.

Edited January 20, 2020 by ruilin96

[dm_ranger]

The biggest difference between Juolevi and Jake/Jared is health.  Jake/Jared have both turned into solid NHL players. 

Juolevi is showing himself to be a solid AHL player and there is no evidence, yet, of more. 

This is not me dumping on him or writing him off, he simply has not played at the NHL level, mostly due to injury.  Juolevi's 'failure' so far is the same as Ferland's, or Sutter's.  They aren't around enough to be considered reliable roster players.

 

Hopefully that changes, but to count on Juolevi as anything more than a prospect is based on hope not evidence.

[JM_]

13 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I see Juolevi as Edlers replacement after next season, and for next season our 6-7 dman. I would say if he follows that path he would be a fixture on this team at 23. 

we need to stop applying the accelerated development curve to all our prospects. Juolevi is about a year behind due to injuries, but expecting him to step into the lineup out of his draft year or D+1 is just ridiculous and the lens some people want to put on him. 

 

guys like Hughes that aren't a liability defensively in their D+1 are really rare. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[Provost]

It is a pretty big error to cherry pick two players and say that is the normal trajectory for non elite players.

 

Everyone develops differently and most never develop to the point of being NHL regulars and more specifically guys that play in the top half of your roster.

 

Everyone stalls at different points too.  Development isn’t linear.  You really don’t know if either of these guys will keep getting better, or even fall off and this ends up being their career years.

 

Even with 1st rounders, more fail than make it... so being in the NHL at all means they aren’t a bust.

[Lancaster]

Were there actually any real character issues with McCann?  Either than Bartkowski's mom going off-the-record and Brandon Prust's complaining that rookies needs to "fight their own battles"... I don't remember hearing any horror stories.

 

Casting off a 18 year old rookie immediately after the 1st season.... it was a huge blunder by JB.  

[Gawdzukes]

Pearson is way better. Jake is real gud.

[189lb enforcers?]

Thought of the day