Would you like to see Kesler in the Ring of Honour?

[dpn1]

After listening to him on 1040 yesterday, I am not as opposed to it now.  Let the negativity go.  Enough time has gone by now that we should be able to let it go.  I thought his apology was sincere.  

[smithers joe]

does kesler deserve to be in the ROH more than say, tiger williams or super pest? i don’t know.

[kylecanuck]

11 hours ago, Davathor said:

 

Obviously he means 2 way center. Finished second to Datsyuk 3 times? 

 

Like him as a person or not, he played hard and left it on the ice for the Canucks. When they decided to rebuild he decided to go - many players do that, and I dont blame him in the least. 

 

The ring of honor isnt a Jersey retirement, and I believe we have enough jerseys retired for a team with ZERO cups. But ring of honor? Kes was a force, hell he beat the preds single handedly. Love the guy, and hope Canuck fans cheer him tommorow... because while he was here he gave it his all. How much weight did he give up fighting Iginla multiple times? He was a gamer, how he left is in the past. It's a &^@#ing job, and he chose to try and win a cup instead of go through a painful rebuild.

I know he meant two way center, that's why I didn't tear him apart for saying something so wrong...kesler a generational talent..hahaha

 

 He played great in one series, you can call him runner up behind datsyuk all you want, but it was bergeron who won it almost every year.. if lucky he was just top five second line center for his peak 3 or 4 seasons.. you might not care how he left, but most of the fan base didn't like it when it happened and still have a bad taste in their mouths now. He wasn't a good person!!!

 

 

I agree we have way to many jerseys in the rafters, but putting more meh into the ring of honour isn't going to help that...

[Kevin Biestra]

8 minutes ago, kylecanuck said:

He played great in one series, you can call him runner up behind datsyuk all you want, but it was bergeron who won it almost every year.. if lucky he was just top five second line center for his peak 3 or 4 seasons.. you might not care how he left, but most of the fan base didn't like it when it happened and still have a bad taste in their mouths now. He wasn't a good person!!!

 

He was top three for the Selke five times over nine years.  He was top five in Selke voting a sixth time in that stretch.  So there were only four years in a decade where he wasn't top five in voting for the award.  And the other half of that decade he was top three.  His first time as a finalist was 2009, and his last was 2017.  That's a lot longer than 3 or 4 seasons.

 

I don't really like Kesler either but it's Bergeron and Datsyuk as the top two for Kesler's generation.  Then you have Toews, Kopitar and Kesler as the next three, and I don't know who you would suggest to unseat anyone from that top five.

[Boudrias]

On 2/6/2020 at 7:00 PM, Oldmanpower said:

in 2010, i was coaching my son in  atom hockey. our team happened to win a full team trip to a canucks game. Really big deal for the kids. Full day canucks tour, pre- game skate , dressing room tour , meals , the works. Fantastic day. However after the pregame skate the kids had a chance to say hi and get autographs from some canucks players. Kessler gave our entire team the cold shoulder. Not even a wave. Nothing. I was stunned. Next up, the BlackHawks. road game. tired. All the big guns showed up and went out of their way to say Hi, good luck, chat. was Amazing. My wife and I were wowed with the class the Hawks players displayed for the young kids. I hate the Hawks, will never cheer for them. They have my full respect as professionals, Ryan Kessler in the ring of honor? I definitely hope not

Sounds bad. 

 

My son was in the Bantam Provincials 1992. Rick Ley said we could bring the team in at Canuck practice. We were told that we had to sit across the ice from the 

dressing rooms and could not make any noise. The boys were never acknowledged. The only players who gave them any notice was Tim Hunter, Eza Tikanen and the back up tender who I cannot remember his name. No autographs allowed. It was disappointing but the boys still enjoyed it. 

 

I hold no grudges with Kesler. I hope he is well received. His actions were not always what we would have hoped but his nature is what probably got him to the NHL. He had so many great games for the Canucks. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Boudrias

[hobart16]

On 2/10/2020 at 6:52 PM, WeneedLumme said:

What utter crap. So you are negotiating with your boss, who is not willing to pay you what you feel your services are worth. A competitor says, "we really value you, so if you are not able to reach agreement with your current boss, here is what we are willing to pay you." 

 

And you of course, would say, "no, get away from me with that (much higher) offer, I am going to show loyalty to my current boss, even though he is not being loyal to me and is not willing to pay a fair price for my services." Sure you would.

That's fine, go to a divisional rival and cash in. But don't cry when they make a list of the greatest Canucks and you aren't on it. He had some great years no doubt. But that isn't the standard. By comparison, Jere Lehtinen won the Selke 4 times. Played entire career for Stars organization, 15 years. He is ring of honor worthy and had his number retired. Pavel Datsyuk played entire NHL career in Detroit, won Selke 3 times, Lady Byng 4 times and 2 rings. He is ring of honor worthy though he probably won't have his number retired or be in any ring of honor in Detroit. Patrice Bergeron won Selke 4 times. So far. Plus a ring after game winner over the Canucks. Entire career in Boston 16 years and counting. Throw in Toewes (1 Selke, one team, 2 rings), and Kopitar (2 Selkes, one team, 2 rings), etc. who are also identified with an organization and city, have stanley cup rings and are better players. They are ring of honor caliber although none have been put there by their organizations. Only Lehtinens number has been retired. Kesler is not in the same discussion as any of them. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by hobart16

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, smithers joe said:

does kesler deserve to be in the ROH more than say, tiger williams or super pest? i don’t know.

 

No, I have it something like...

 

Richard Brodeur

Andre Boudrias

Tiger Williams / Gino Odjick (Tiger is probably out of the running with his legal issue a couple years ago)

Doug Lidster

Kesler

Tony Tanti

Don Lever

Cliff Ronning

Dennis Kearns

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[WeneedLumme]

1 hour ago, hobart16 said:

That's fine, go to a divisional rival and cash in. But don't cry when they make a list of the greatest Canucks and you aren't on it. He had some great years no doubt. But that isn't the standard. By comparison, Jere Lehtinen won the Selke 4 times. Played entire career for Stars organization, 15 years. He is ring of honor worthy and had his number retired. Pavel Datsyuk played entire NHL career in Detroit, won Selke 3 times, Lady Byng 4 times and 2 rings. He is ring of honor worthy though he probably won't have his number retired or be in any ring of honor in Detroit. Patrice Bergeron won Selke 4 times. So far. Plus a ring after game winner over the Canucks. Entire career in Boston 16 years and counting. Throw in Toewes (1 Selke, one team, 2 rings), and Kopitar (2 Selkes, one team, 2 rings), etc. who are also identified with an organization and city, have stanley cup rings and are better players. They are ring of honor caliber although none have been put there by their organizations. Only Lehtinens number has been retired. Kesler is not in the same discussion as any of them. 

Apparently you did not understand that I was pointing out how ridiculous it is to vilify someone for refusing to accept an offer that was far less than fair market value, choosing instead to use the leverage the CBA allows to negotiate a fair contract.

 

You are certainly correct that Kesler is not in the same discussion as any of those players you listed, who played for other teams and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Canucks ROH. Really not sure why you did list them, since they have nothing at all to do with the topic at hand.

[higgyfan]

He probably should and will be one day. Right now, we're just hoping that some classless fans don't boo him on one of the most important evenings in franchise history.

[kylecanuck]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

He was top three for the Selke five times over nine years.  He was top five in Selke voting a sixth time in that stretch.  So there were only four years in a decade where he wasn't top five in voting for the award.  And the other half of that decade he was top three.  His first time as a finalist was 2009, and his last was 2017.  That's a lot longer than 3 or 4 seasons.

 

I don't really like Kesler either but it's Bergeron and Datsyuk as the top two for Kesler's generation.  Then you have Toews, Kopitar and Kesler as the next three, and I don't know who you would suggest to unseat anyone from that top five.

Ok, I'll go with it. Fifth is reasonable spot in a list of two way forwards for him

[oldnews]

"they (the Sedins) taught me how to lead"......RKsevendeen

 

 

 

An entertaining 'mea culpa' Ryan.

 

that said - I was glad they gave him a warm reception last night - it looked like he needed it - and it wasn't the time for hard feelings.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by oldnews

[cuporbust]

Would have said hell no a year ago, now i would probably enjoy seeing it happen.  

[Junkyard Dog]

Good question to ask his who is more deserving Luo or Kesler?

 

Kesler handcuffed the team but Luo went back to the team he was more loyal too.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Good question to ask his who is more deserving Luo or Kesler?

 

Kesler handcuffed the team but Luo went back to the team he was more loyal too.

 

Luongo is way higher up the ladder.  He's on the verge of number retirement, let alone ROH.  Kesler is on the borderline between ROH and nothing.  Guaranteed Luongo gets ROH at a minimum.

 

Kesler is actually behind Edler, whom I would say is also guaranteed ROH.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Junkyard Dog]

57 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Luongo is way higher up the ladder.  He's on the verge of number retirement, let alone ROH.  Kesler is on the borderline between ROH and nothing.  Guaranteed Luongo gets ROH at a minimum.

 

Kesler is actually behind Edler, whom I would say is also guaranteed ROH.

IDK about that personally and big no to jersey retirement for Luo.

 

Luongo's loyalties lie with Florida. That's the kicker to me. If he was given a choice between being a Panther or a Canuck it's a Panther all the way. The fact that Luongo is more connected to another team makes me feel iffy about giving him any sort of recognition like that. I appreciate what he's done, don't get me wrong. He's already has his number retired in Florida. I am iffy about Kesler too, don't get me wrong. Kesler wanted to win a Stanley Cup and felt that ANA was his best shot. That was ultimately his mindset and he felt that the Canucks were on the downturn, which we were. Ultimately they both wanted out didn't leave on the best of terms

 

They're both equal in my eyes on where they're at when it comes to ROH.

 

Edler is probably gonna get his Jersey retired or he at least has a pretty good chance of it happening. He's been our all-time best defenseman and a good benchmark for Hughes to try to beat in our record books.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Junkyard Dog

[Kevin Biestra]

20 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

IDK about that personally and big no to jersey retirement for Luo.

 

Luongo's loyalties lie with Florida. That's the kicker to me. If he was given a choice between being a Panther or a Canuck it's a Panther all the way. The fact that Luongo is more connected to another team makes me feel iffy about giving him any sort of recognition like that. I appreciate what he's done, don't get me wrong. He's already has his number retired in Florida. I am iffy about Kesler too, don't get me wrong. Kesler wanted to win a Stanley Cup and felt that ANA was his best shot. That was ultimately his mindset and he felt that the Canucks were on the downturn, which we were. Ultimately they both wanted out didn't leave on the best of terms

 

They're both equal in my eyes on where they're at when it comes to ROH.

 

Edler is probably gonna get his Jersey retired or he at least has a pretty good chance of it happening. He's been our all-time best defenseman and a good benchmark for Hughes to try to beat in our record books.

 

I think Edler has to do something substantially more to get his number retired.  At a minimum, he'll need to hit 1000 games in a Canuck uniform.

 

He is the all time D leader in everything...but while we've had some very fine defensemen over the decades, the bar is quite low in terms of career numbers in everything, even games played.  Provided that Hughes stays a Canuck, he will blow Edler's records out of the water mid-career.

 

Edler is like the definition of an ROH guy right now.  800ish games, under 600 points.  Never created problems or pissed on the fans.

 

As for Luongo...  If the NHL was like MLB and had to pick a team when inducting a player, they would have him wearing a Canucks hat.  That said, yes, Luongo is very much a Florida guy in his own mind and in his actual life.  And he did leave in a Kesler / Bure-ish fashion...but he cut a much more sympathetic figure overall.  Maybe it was just his sense of humor, but he's not really that divisive a figure.  I've always been of the mind that Luongo deserves pretty much whatever team honors that McLean gets.  So, probably ROH.  But if they do retire his number, bring McLean out of the ROH and put him in the rafters too.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I think Edler has to do something substantially more to get his number retired.  At a minimum, he'll need to hit 1000 games in a Canuck uniform.

 

He is the all time D leader in everything...but while we've had some very fine defensemen over the decades, the bar is quite low in terms of career numbers in everything, even games played.  Provided that Hughes stays a Canuck, he will blow Edler's records out of the water mid-career.

 

Edler is like the definition of an ROH guy right now.  800ish games, under 600 points.  Never created problems or pissed on the fans.

 

As for Luongo...  If the NHL was like MLB and had to pick a team when inducting a player, they would have him wearing a Canucks hat.  That said, yes, Luongo is very much a Florida guy in his own mind and in his actual life.  And he did leave in a Kesler / Bure-ish fashion...but he cut a much more sympathetic figure overall.  Maybe it was just his sense of humor, but he's not really that divisive a figure.  I've always been of the mind that Luongo deserves pretty much whatever team honors that McLean gets.  So, probably ROH.  But if they do retire his number, bring McLean out of the ROH and put him in the rafters too.

He's our all-time leader for defenseman and we don't have a defenseman up there yet. It is a safe bet for Edler to be up there eventually. Also a good chance he gets 1000 games if he re-signs with us.

 

They definitely shouldn't retire Luongo's number if they didn't with McLean. I was a huge Luo fan growing up. My first Canuck's jersey was his and he was a big part of me playing goalie. Ultimately he played more with another team than with us, which you can't say about McLean, Kesler, Burrows or Bure when they left. Already has his Jersey retired in Florida.

 

It would be the wrong move.

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He's our all-time leader for defenseman and we don't have a defenseman up there yet. It is a safe bet for Edler to be up there eventually. Also a good chance he gets 1000 games if he re-signs with us.

 

They definitely shouldn't retire Luongo's number if they didn't with McLean. I was a huge Luo fan growing up. My first Canuck's jersey was his and he was a big part of me playing goalie. Ultimately he played more with another team than with us, which you can't say about McLean, Kesler, Burrows or Bure when they left. Already has his Jersey retired in Florida.

 

It would be the wrong move.

 

 

Re: Edler, I don't think it's a safe bet.  I think 1,000 games is when the conversation about possibly retiring the number can begin.

 

Yes, he's our all time leader.  But that's what Doug Lidster and Dennis Kearns were for decades, and neither ever gets even mentioned in ROH discussions except by me.  Ohlund became the all time leader - by a whisker over those two (the position that Edler now holds) - and he is an ROH guy and nobody would ever think of retiring his number.  Edler is much more like Ohlund than he is like other defensemen around the league with retired jerseys.

 

When Edler is surpassed, his reign as career record holder will be as overlooked as that of Kearns and Lidster.  Lidster is still the current record holder for points in a season by a defenseman (63), and has been for 35 years.  Nobody seems to really care.  When he was our assistant coach a couple years ago, most people didn't even know he used to play for us and didn't care either when he was let go.

 

A non-superstar defenseman can get his number retired (e.g. Ken Daneyko) but Daneyko has 3 Cups and almost 1300 games as a Devil, plus a Masterton Trophy.

 

Anyway I've got Edler in the ROH if he retires tomorrow, but I also don't have him leaving that category for the rafters unless he does something categorically different (e.g. 4th player ever to play 1000 games for Vancouver plus a Cup or something).

 

 

As for Luongo, I'm not too fussed either way.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[hobart16]

17 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Apparently you did not understand that I was pointing out how ridiculous it is to vilify someone for refusing to accept an offer that was far less than fair market value, choosing instead to use the leverage the CBA allows to negotiate a fair contract.

 

You are certainly correct that Kesler is not in the same discussion as any of those players you listed, who played for other teams and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Canucks ROH. Really not sure why you did list them, since they have nothing at all to do with the topic at hand.

Totally agree on your point that it is silly to criticize a business decision because it is bad for your team. My bad. 

[Nave]

Was great seeing Kesler get a warm reception last night.
But I stand by my previous statement: Luongo deserves the RoH--or even jersey retirement--more.