[Official] 2021 Training Camp Thread

[Kootenay Gold]

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

Long as we all agree LouiE's stuck in a chequing-role!

Only if that role is in Utica

[DefCon1]

33 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I see value in Gaudette as a winger still if he doesn't work out at C. 

I think Gaudette is much better at wing vs. center. What Benning should do after departure of Sutter is to look for a 2 way C thats dominant in faceoffs ala Malhotra type. Not sure if Canucks have that type of center in our prospect pool unless Arvid Costmar can show he is capable of playing a great 2 way game. Costmar is pretty offensive so am hoping he can be our future 3rd line C.

 

Miller-Petterson-Hoglander

Podkolzin-Horvat-Boeser

Gaudette-Costmar-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-Lockwood/Roussel

 

I really hope we can ice this forward corps as soon as next season since we already know Benning will sign Podkolzin ASAP and Hoglander has been really impressing people in training camp. This will bring us 3 to 4 ELC and rid us of the cap problems in the flat cap world. Will be a reality for all the team in the NHL as I doubt teams will be signing big name UFAs next off season or signing big contracts. Getting rid of Sutter and Eriksson will hopefully give us the much needed cap room to sign Hughes and Petersson to possible bridge deals, not sure if they will sign long term if the cap is flat for a couple of more years but hopefully it does give us the option if we want to sign them to long term deals.

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Only if that role is in Utica

Eriksson maybe just part of the taxi squad. No room for him assuming Hoglander makes our team permanently.

 

Miller-Petersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Gaudette-Sutter-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

Mckewan

 

Taxi squad: Eriksson, Lockwood, Hawryluk, Lind, Baertschi

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

4 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

The clowning is over the top.

 

If I was Green I would have said practice is always optional and I have the option to not dress your ass.

 

 

[the grinder]

1 minute ago, Kootenay Gold said:

We are but not all CDC'ers on this board are.

'

  loui can cash his cheque for checking role , next thing it will be about colours 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

55 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

I generally agree, but it should be noted that Virtanen was 33rd in scoring for RW last season.  With 31 teams that would make him the second best 2nd line RW.  That was while coming 70th in minutes among RW (13:05).  Boeser is clearly a top-12 RW in the league.  JT Miller and Pearson were be 5th and 25th among LW.  Petersson and Horvat were 12th and 28th among centres.  So only Virtanen is outside the top 30 and he had very few minutes.  I think that is a pretty solid top 6.  Add Hoglander and Gaudette I think you have 1 or 2 guys that "could" be top 6.  

There is more to being the the top six than scoring.    Vancouver was a higher than average scoring team last year but also gave up their fair share of goals.   I think you can look at this just stats wise if you are trying to be an average or even good team but if you want to be a great team, you need all in your top six to drive the play, have great possession stats, have an ability to shut down play as well as generate offence.     Then again, all teams have flaws but Vancouver's are largely now in their depth at forward - it would be nice to have at least two more veterans that could slot into top six roles IF this team is going to go another step.   That can wait a year or two if need be but this isn't yet a team that is going to get to that final four or better without more depth...from within or otherwise.     

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

lol, you're funny thinking ottawa is going to trade with us, it's highly unlikely. it's going to be a tight race in the northern division. and besides that i think that's a terrible trade in this compressed covid season. if these teams are fighting for a playoff spot, neither of them make these trades. depth is more important than having a slightly better centre.  so unless hawryluk or  graovac somehow make a huge jump in devolpment  we don't make this trade. ottawa doesn't make this trade because they replace thier 2nd line centre for a 3rd  line centre. having AG and brandon sutter in our depth charts>>having tierney in your lineup,  one injury and we would have to break up the top line and move miller to a pivot. it would also have a trickle down effect of watering down our left wing too.

 

maybe consider making a trade proposal that wouldn't obliterate our depth? 

Ottawa, while certainly making many positive strides and having a bright future ahead of them, is highly unlikely to be challenging for anything this season.

 

Do I think they'll move Tierney (who's far from 'slightly' better BTW)? Probably not. And for the exact reasons I'd love us to have him, and very little to do with the reasons you gave.  Good thing he was just a 'player-type' example of an exact situation it would make sense to 'sell' an expiring Sutter and even move out a promising, young Gaudette.

 

For improvement in a key area. One that could potentially be a weakness after Sutter expires this year/if Gaudette struggles.

 

We also have a, if somewhat unglamorous, increasingly large pool of potential depth C's beyond the likes of Hawryluck/Graovac FWIW.

[Kootenay Gold]

4 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

Eriksson maybe just part of the taxi squad. No room for him assuming Hoglander makes our team permanently.

 

Miller-Petersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Gaudette-Sutter-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

Mckewan

 

Taxi squad: Eriksson, Lockwood, Hawryluk, Lind, Baertschi

I'm not so sure of Eriksson being on the taxi squad. Chatfield, Hawryluk, Brisebois, Bailey and Graovac are not waiver exempt nor is Loui but I think Loui is the most expendable one. The other wildcard is Baertschi and if he does not make the team, I think he does make the taxi squad in that scenario and one of Bailey or Graovac are sent down.

[Junkyard Dog]

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Absolutely possible! Though we do have a lot of winger depth and it's arguably the easiest position to fill.

 

Personally I'd see more value in a Tierney or similar player.

 

Speaking to the conversation you and Theo were having. He'd sure free Horvat and his line up for additional offensive usage. Not only that, he'd be a hell of an injury fill in should Horvat get hurt.

Tierney I would love but it would probably cost a good price. He's a top 6 C for them and is in his prime. With Gaudette at wing and if a couple young wingers step up it would make someone of value expendable but we'd have to likely add depending on what we give up.

 

For sure. My point is having the sort of flexibility having Gaudette/3rd C contribute in different ways has a good trickle up/down effect for line 4 and 2. The more flexibility and freedom the better the coaches have it. Also it would help, on top of the additions of Hamonic/Schmidt, with the overall team D(The more ways you tackle the better).

 

Hence why I feel having each young player with 2 players the coach can rely on would be beneficial. Addresses the overall team D in another way(with not having a young line) and gives the youngsters an opportunity to be placed in more defensive situations 5v5 while having a safety net. To me it's an ideal situation given the circumstances.

 

Special team is a different story though. I would have hoped to see some sort of PK time last year for Gaud and maybe Virtanen but it is what it is.

 

Last year we gave up a bit more even strength goals(5v5, 4v4, 3v3) than we got. This year if we get more even strength goals than we give up I will be ecstatic since I feel we're gonna continue to uptrend. Would love to see 5v5 improvement and I feel some of the moves we made will have a good chance to help.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

3 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Wow, didn't have a clue he was going through this.  Can be quite debilitating (my daughter's had similar issues).  

He's a favourite, hope he slays it this year.

I hope he kicks this stomach issue square in the face... 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Green played him at PK during Training Camp last year so I wonder what prevented him from trying out Gaud at the PK last season? Maybe he was comfortable with the personnel we already had? I would have liked to see Virtanen/Gaud get some opportunities to grow defensively(PK/etc) early on last year.

I don’t think that’s what they are being groomed for (yet), usually the vets take that role - unless they are two way players from the outset which neither are.   With the players we have we don’t need them in those roles, we need them to provide secondary scoring more then anything.   Nothing wrong with getting them to practice that stuff - maybe they can grow into it, and get it figured out.   Bure was an excellent PKer because he was such a threat - same as Wayne Gretzky.   Thing is even the elite guys most of them don’t kill penalties.  How many goals does Ovi have all-time again... is it 4?

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Dixon Ward said:

I generally agree, but it should be noted that Virtanen was 33rd in scoring for RW last season.  With 31 teams that would make him the second best 2nd line RW.  That was while coming 70th in minutes among RW (13:05).  Boeser is clearly a top-12 RW in the league.  JT Miller and Pearson were be 5th and 25th among LW.  Petersson and Horvat were 12th and 28th among centres.  So only Virtanen is outside the top 30 and he had very few minutes.  I think that is a pretty solid top 6.  Add Hoglander and Gaudette I think you have 1 or 2 guys that "could" be top 6.  

Totally 100% agree with you Dixon and I have high-lited those stats before, myself

In saying that....."IF" Jake could come with more consistency, there would actually be no debating that

Meaning a little more on a regular basis.......

I will even go as far to say, that if he kept the same points, but hit more, he would be considered that

IMO, it really isn't that far to really make a big difference

I am just waiting to see just how much that time with Myers helped

[Junkyard Dog]

35 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Would they face the top opposition often intentionally? We don't know if Hoglander is strong enough two way. Boeser is definitely not considered a two way player. That pushes Petey into the main defensive role which would dial him back offensively. Can't have the expectation that they would just be dominant and play in the offensive zone every shift especially against the top opposition. The reason why Petey's line can play against the big boys is because of Miller. What happens if we ice the puck? Would you rather have Miller on the draw or Petey right now? Miller can play with Horvat, but Miller was unlocked with Petey. Miller and Horvat together is almost redundant unless you're trying to form an ultimate shutdown line. In which case, we'd be playing matchup even more so rather than rolling 4 lines. I'm not against the idea of playing matchup, I just don't think having them together is the best scenario for rolling 4 lines.

 

I agree the main sticking point is can the 3rd line be trusted. But that would mean plugging Roussel and Sutter with one of the younger players if that's the concern.

 

Being hemmed in our zone is mainly attributed to us not being able to connect from the defense to the forwards. Schmidt adds to that element. Juolevi's passing would add that as well. Being able to transition out is what's important in possession and breaking out. There's a reason why Benning specifically targetted this area to improve.

A lot of people feel Boeser can hold his own. Petey says he likes to face that sort of competition and Greener has stated he should expect to face that since he is an elite offensive talent. They're gonna be used more offensively so no dialing back needed.

 

Miller with Horvat ups that lines offensive and defensive play. They'd be an everything line.

 

Teams have needs, roles that need to be filled. If one line isn't doing that then another must make up for it which is what line 2/4 have done defensively. The Canucks as a team need line 3 to take up more defensive responsibility so that line 2, our 2nd best line, can be utilized to the best of it's capability(equally offensively and defensively) instead of having to be used a bit more defensively. 

 

We essentially need line 3 to be a mini-line 2 providing secondary scoring and defense. When you have lines that can be trusted defensively and play in multiple roles/situations you can then roll 4 lines or match up how you please as you will have the flexibility too. 

 

Partly contributed with moving the puck out. It's one part of a lot of things that go into defensive play. Like getting the puck back, covering lanes, playing below the hashmarks,  play away from the puck etc. Canucks never gave up the puck a lot last year but we struggled to get it back when we did give it up. It should be an issue addressed at in as many ways as we are capable.

 

If we disagree on how we'd like to see Miller utilized or Hog or what not than agree to disagree. We seem to have an agreement where it matters in regards to have 4 lines Green can trust enough, given the roles needing, balancing out time and granting flexibility with the line deployment. We just disagree on how to get there on some parts.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Tierney I would love but it would probably cost a good price.

Yes, as I said elsewhere, he's not likely available for the exact reasons I'd want him. And like I said, he'd probably cost us Gaudette, the return from Sutter and a decent B prospect (or similar package). I'd certainly pay it for him as it would help really push us over the top, but again, he's not likely going anywhere regardless. Perhaps we could pilfer Jenner out of Columbus instead?  

 

Point being, a Jenner, Tierney etc is the exact player type I'd be targeting if I was JB with the exact type of deadline move I was referring to earlier in this thread. With the D largely remade, it's our next most obvious 'hole' both presently, (Gaudette hasn't stepped up yet and Sutter's health is iffy/contract is expiring) and future.

 

7 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

For sure. My point is having the sort of flexibility having Gaudette/3rd C contribute in different ways has a good trickle up/down effect for line 4 and 2. The more flexibility and freedom the better the coaches have it. Also it would help, on top of the additions of Hamonic/Schmidt, with the overall team D(The more ways you tackle the better).

Could not agree more. Solidifying our 3C slot with a solid, 2 way player, would trickle up and down the lineup and contribute to team D, just as you're suggesting.

[DontFockWithBrock]

6 hours ago, DontFockWithBrock said:

What's the schedule like today? 

6 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Media availability at 10:15 am and 11:30 am. Scrimmage at 7:00 pm.

 

6 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

There is a scrimmage tonight that'll be aired (play by play) on Sportsnet650 at 7 pm.

When both VC and Deb reply to my "I don't know what the hell is going on" post 

 

[-DLC-]

1 minute ago, DontFockWithBrock said:

 

When both VC and Deb reply to my "I don't know what the hell is going on" post 

 

Because we care, that's why.  

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I don’t think that’s what they are being groomed for (yet), usually the vets take that role - unless they are two way players from the outset which neither are.   With the players we have we don’t need them in those roles, we need them to provide secondary scoring more then anything.   Nothing wrong with getting them to practice that stuff - maybe they can grow into it, and get it figured out.   Bure was an excellent PKer because he was such a threat - same as Wayne Gretzky.   Thing is even the elite guys most of them don’t kill penalties.  How many goals does Ovi have all-time again... is it 4?

Nah but to be reliable to coaches, and for general success, in the NHL you got to be bringing different things to the table or be really good at one thing(like some of the players you mentioned). Gaud/Virtanen weren't our strongest defensive players so others were utilized in those positions more so than they needed to be. They were good secondary scorers and inconsistent players trying to round out their overall. We'd like to see more generally speaking but understandably there's a process to do that. I feel that putting players in situations where they will gain experience will benefit them overall.

 

Canucks as a team would benefit from the 3rd line taking up a bit more of the defensive responsibility. It frees up Horvat's line, our 2nd best one, and puts less pressure on the team overall when there's an injury to lines 2 and 4. Overall it increases the flexibility with line utilization and creates better safe guards when injuries.

 

What I would like to see is line 3 becoming a mini Horvat line providing secondary scoring and reliable defensive play.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, canuktravella said:

  hes not talented enough for pp time   he played same  amount  of games as most of our forwards cant use that as an excuse.

Green said in his interview he was happy to use Sutter on the PP when he had to. Not that he was planning to, our any best option.  But has some offensive skills, very smart and capable of utilising those skills when with the right players. Does see him as a defensive center & thats what his role is.

 

It was Sutter in this conversation, yes?

 

 

 

Separate post, not a reply >>  Does Myer not look like a chiseled athlete?  Very fit...

[aGENT]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I don’t think that’s what they are being groomed for (yet), usually the vets take that role - unless they are two way players from the outset which neither are.   With the players we have we don’t need them in those roles, we need them to provide secondary scoring more then anything.   Nothing wrong with getting them to practice that stuff - maybe they can grow into it, and get it figured out.   Bure was an excellent PKer because he was such a threat - same as Wayne Gretzky.   Thing is even the elite guys most of them don’t kill penalties.  How many goals does Ovi have all-time again... is it 4?

FYI:

 

 

 

[Hairy Kneel]

I think Jake needs to train on the PK.