The I have Mixed Feelings about Jim Benning Chaosthread 3000

[Josepho]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

Benning should do what is best for the team regardless of your expectations.

 

I trust Jim Benning with the management of the Vancouver Canucks. However, I don’t trust you with a Fisher Price toy plane. And stop hitting the dog with it. 
 

what would it take for you to not trust him, genuine question

[Me_]

3 hours ago, Josepho said:

what would it take for you to not trust him, genuine question

Five years of mediocre drafting whereby no 1st round pick makes the team. With Benning, we’d probably know within three years of such an even happening.

 

So far all 1st rounders are playing for the Canucks except the latest, Podkolzin, who may sign after APR30.

 

Benning even has a 1st rounder playing for Pittsburgh.

Here’s the team:

MILLER - PETTERSSON (IR) - BOESER

VESEY - HORVAT - HÖGLANDER

MOTTE - SUTTER - HAWRYLUK

ROUSSEL - GAUDETTE - VIRTANEN

McEWEN

ERIKSSON

 

EDLER - SCHMIDT

HUGHES - HARMONIC

BENN - MYERS

JUOLEVI

 

DEMKO

HOLTBY
 

Here are the drafts Benning picked:

 

MILLER - 5OA17 (IR) - 23OA15

VESEY - HORVAT - 40OA19

MOTTE - SUTTER - HAWRYLUK

ROUSSEL - 149OA15 - 6OA14

McEWEN

ERIKSSON

 

EDLER - SCHMIDT

7OA18 - HARMONIC

BENN - MYERS

5OA16

 

36OA14

HOLTBY

 

Here is the team Benning assembled:

(I’m putting Horvat and Edler’s Draft position as well, as it was Benning’s decision to keep them both. The proof of that, is he got rid of everyone else). Undrafted players go by name.

 

15OA11 - 5OA17 (IR) - 23OA15

66OA12 - 9OA13 - 40OA19

121OA13 - 11OA07 - 32OA14

ROUSSEL - 149OA15 - 6OA14

McEWEN

33OA03 (taxi squad)

30OA12 (out four weeks)

 

91OA04 - SCHMIDT

7OA18 - 53OA08

BENN - 12OA08

5OA16

 

36OA14

93OA08

 

Not mentioned: Podkolzin @ 10OA19.

 

Thats is:

11 x 1st rounders

Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Sutter, Virtanen, Hughes, Myers, Juolevi, Podkolzin

 

5 x 2nd rounders

Höglander, Hawryluk, Harmonic, Demko, Eriksson

 

2 x 3rd rounders

Edler, Vesey

 

2 x 4th rounder

Motte, Holtby

 

1 x 5th rounder

Gaudette

 

4 x Undrafted

Roussel, McEwen, Schmidt, Benn

 

That is why I trust Jim Benning.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Me_

[Convincing John]

Very interesting reading these comments from a few years ago. 

[DSVII]

On 3/20/2021 at 10:31 AM, Me_ said:

Five years of mediocre drafting whereby no 1st round pick makes the team. With Benning, we’d probably know within three years of such an even happening.

 

So far all 1st rounders are playing for the Canucks except the latest, Podkolzin, who may sign after APR30.

 

Benning even has a 1st rounder playing for Pittsburgh.

Here’s the team:

MILLER - PETTERSSON (IR) - BOESER

VESEY - HORVAT - HÖGLANDER

MOTTE - SUTTER - HAWRYLUK

ROUSSEL - GAUDETTE - VIRTANEN

McEWEN

ERIKSSON

 

EDLER - SCHMIDT

HUGHES - HARMONIC

BENN - MYERS

JUOLEVI

 

DEMKO

HOLTBY
 

Here are the drafts Benning picked:

 

MILLER - 5OA17 (IR) - 23OA15

VESEY - HORVAT - 40OA19

MOTTE - SUTTER - HAWRYLUK

ROUSSEL - 149OA15 - 6OA14

McEWEN

ERIKSSON

 

EDLER - SCHMIDT

7OA18 - HARMONIC

BENN - MYERS

5OA16

 

36OA14

HOLTBY

 

Here is the team Benning assembled:

(I’m putting Horvat and Edler’s Draft position as well, as it was Benning’s decision to keep them both. The proof of that, is he got rid of everyone else). Undrafted players go by name.

 

15OA11 - 5OA17 (IR) - 23OA15

66OA12 - 9OA13 - 40OA19

121OA13 - 11OA07 - 32OA14

ROUSSEL - 149OA15 - 6OA14

McEWEN

33OA03 (taxi squad)

30OA12 (out four weeks)

 

91OA04 - SCHMIDT

7OA18 - 53OA08

BENN - 12OA08

5OA16

 

36OA14

93OA08

 

Not mentioned: Podkolzin @ 10OA19.

 

Thats is:

11 x 1st rounders

Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Sutter, Virtanen, Hughes, Myers, Juolevi, Podkolzin

 

5 x 2nd rounders

Höglander, Hawryluk, Harmonic, Demko, Eriksson

 

2 x 3rd rounders

Edler, Vesey

 

2 x 4th rounder

Motte, Holtby

 

1 x 5th rounder

Gaudette

 

4 x Undrafted

Roussel, McEwen, Schmidt, Benn

 

That is why I trust Jim Benning.

 

I'm pretty sure I can trust you to at draft at least one NHL player given five shots at a top 10 pick in the NHL draft and an NHL hockey news magazine (JB has had 5 in his 7 years). That's not a high bar.

 

I don't recall any GM whiffing on 5 first round picks in a row ever ("making the team") or even having the opportunity to have 5 years to be that bad. 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by DSVII

[Convincing John]

On 3/20/2021 at 11:31 AM, Me_ said:

Five years of mediocre drafting whereby no 1st round pick makes the team. With Benning, we’d probably know within three years of such an even happening.

 

So far all 1st rounders are playing for the Canucks except the latest, Podkolzin, who may sign after APR30.

 

Benning even has a 1st rounder playing for Pittsburgh.

Here’s the team:

MILLER - PETTERSSON (IR) - BOESER

VESEY - HORVAT - HÖGLANDER

MOTTE - SUTTER - HAWRYLUK

ROUSSEL - GAUDETTE - VIRTANEN

McEWEN

ERIKSSON

 

EDLER - SCHMIDT

HUGHES - HARMONIC

BENN - MYERS

JUOLEVI

 

DEMKO

HOLTBY
 

Here are the drafts Benning picked:

 

MILLER - 5OA17 (IR) - 23OA15

VESEY - HORVAT - 40OA19

MOTTE - SUTTER - HAWRYLUK

ROUSSEL - 149OA15 - 6OA14

McEWEN

ERIKSSON

 

EDLER - SCHMIDT

7OA18 - HARMONIC

BENN - MYERS

5OA16

 

36OA14

HOLTBY

 

Here is the team Benning assembled:

(I’m putting Horvat and Edler’s Draft position as well, as it was Benning’s decision to keep them both. The proof of that, is he got rid of everyone else). Undrafted players go by name.

 

15OA11 - 5OA17 (IR) - 23OA15

66OA12 - 9OA13 - 40OA19

121OA13 - 11OA07 - 32OA14

ROUSSEL - 149OA15 - 6OA14

McEWEN

33OA03 (taxi squad)

30OA12 (out four weeks)

 

91OA04 - SCHMIDT

7OA18 - 53OA08

BENN - 12OA08

5OA16

 

36OA14

93OA08

 

Not mentioned: Podkolzin @ 10OA19.

 

Thats is:

11 x 1st rounders

Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Sutter, Virtanen, Hughes, Myers, Juolevi, Podkolzin

 

5 x 2nd rounders

Höglander, Hawryluk, Harmonic, Demko, Eriksson

 

2 x 3rd rounders

Edler, Vesey

 

2 x 4th rounder

Motte, Holtby

 

1 x 5th rounder

Gaudette

 

4 x Undrafted

Roussel, McEwen, Schmidt, Benn

 

That is why I trust Jim Benning.

 

Now I know why you want to fire Travis Green. 

[Me_]

18 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Now I know why you want to fire Travis Green. 

Wait what?

Nowhere do I advocate firing Green.

[kanucks25]

12 hours ago, Convincing John said:

Very interesting reading these comments from a few years ago. 

 

Logic downvoted into oblivion.

 

Used to get the same thing here 2-3 years ago.

 

People are starting to come to their senses a bit though.

 

bUT whO cOuLD hAvE knOwn!!! hInDsiGhT!!!

[AV.]

As much as the Eriksson contract quite predictably turned out horrible by years 5 and 6, at least there was some logic around it for years 1 - 4.  50-60 pt ish scorer, one of the better two-way forwards in the NHL at the time, some experience playing with the Sedins, could have transitioned (unironically) into being a winger for Horvat in the top 6.  It went all wrong from the first day but at least money was spent on a player geared for the top of the lineup where money should be spent.  In a vacuum, 6M out of an 81M cap isn't crippling anyhow.

 

It's the Beagle/Roussel/Myers/Ferland/Sutter/Baertschi/etc. bull$&!# that will always irk me about this management and the subsequent excuses from all of their bootlicking fans about "hindsight"/"the market dictated"/"rebuilding forced us"/etc.  Well and truly unacceptable.

[RU SERIOUS]

Almost every other thread contains some reference to firing JB, so why not a poll on predicting how long he will last - with a prize for the best prediction/winner like a personally signed "JB Motto" Poster....

 

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Logic downvoted into oblivion.

 

Used to get the same thing here 2-3 years ago.

 

People are starting to come to their senses a bit though.

 

bUT whO cOuLD hAvE knOwn!!! hInDsiGhT!!!

They should have been rebuilding, but they were not.

Who's fault is that?

[RU SERIOUS]

29 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

As much as the Eriksson contract quite predictably turned out horrible by years 5 and 6, at least there was some logic around it for years 1 - 4.  50-60 pt ish scorer, one of the better two-way forwards in the NHL at the time, some experience playing with the Sedins, could have transitioned (unironically) into being a winger for Horvat in the top 6.  It went all wrong from the first day but at least money was spent on a player geared for the top of the lineup where money should be spent.  In a vacuum, 6M out of an 81M cap isn't crippling anyhow.

 

It's the Beagle/Roussel/Myers/Ferland/Sutter/Baertschi/etc. bull$&!# that will always irk me about this management and the subsequent excuses from all of their bootlicking fans about "hindsight"/"the market dictated"/"rebuilding forced us"/etc.  Well and truly unacceptable.

A friendly reminder - that you forgot to include the "Lazy Jake" contract in your listing of disappointment/deadwood players too.  Just saying.............

Edited March 24, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[kanucks25]

2 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

They should have been rebuilding, but they were not.

Who's fault is that?

All members of the original 3-headed management monster are culpable.

 

What portion of the blame each one deserves? Doesn't really matter to me, especially because that's impossible to decipher.

[Honky Cat]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

All members of the original 3-headed management monster are culpable.

 

What portion of the blame each one deserves? Doesn't really matter to me, especially because that's impossible to decipher.

It was signalled that there would be no rebuild  before Benning was even hired.

Not excusing him for his poor targets, but the 'rebuild on the fly' wasnt his mandate?

[kanucks25]

2 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

It was signalled that there would be no rebuild  before Benning was even hired.

Not excusing him for his poor targets, but the 'rebuild on the fly' wasnt his mandate?

Doesn't really matter to me whose mandate it was, he willingly carried it out, so he eats some of that blame.

 

Either he knew it was a plan doomed from the start and went with it anyway, or he wasn't smart enough to know that it was doomed from the start. Either way, it's incompetence.

[Honky Cat]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

Doesn't really matter to me whose mandate it was, he willingly carried it out, so he eats some of that blame.

 

Either he knew it was a plan doomed from the start and went with it anyway, or he wasn't smart enough to know that it was doomed from the start. Either way, it's incompetence.

It was incompetence, just pointing out that he wasnt the mastermind behind it.

They had just sunk a gazillion dollars in re signing the Sedins in 2013, a proper rebuild was never on the books.

[kanucks25]

8 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

It was incompetence, just pointing out that he wasnt the mastermind behind it.

They had just sunk a gazillion dollars in re signing the Sedins in 2013, a proper rebuild was never on the books.

Oh yeah, the "mastermind" was definitely Aquaman, that we already know that (Gillis was fired for wanting to rebuild).

 

The thing is, ownership would have outlined to Benning during the interview process what they were expecting, and Benning told them what they wanted to hear. Whether or not Benning believed what was coming out of his own mouth, nobody knows and I don't think it matters because ultimately only results do. If I had to bet, I'd say he believed in the plan, because I don't believe he took the job knowing he would fail just for the sake of getting the job.

Edited March 24, 2021 by kanucks25

[higgyfan]

3 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

It was incompetence, just pointing out that he wasnt the mastermind behind it.

They had just sunk a gazillion dollars in re signing the Sedins in 2013, a proper rebuild was never on the books.

It is quite obvious that the team owners did not sign Benning to start a rebuild.  They clearly thought a 'retool' would do the trick. Unfortunately, by 2015 it became certain that they had to start a rebuild.  The old core players were slipping in their stats and (other than Bo), there were no prospects to replace them.

 

Yep the rebuild started late, but the team is still looking good to make their mark in the next couple of years.

 

 

[Honky Cat]

2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Oh yeah, the "mastermind" was definitely Aquaman, that we already know that (Gillis was fired for wanting to rebuild).

 

The thing is, ownership would have outlined to Benning during the interview process what they were expecting, and Benning told them what they wanted to hear. Whether or not Benning believed what was coming out of his own mouth, nobody knows and I don't think it matters because ultimately only results do. If I had to bet, I'd say he believed in the plan, because I don't believe he took the job knowing he would fail just for the sake of getting the job.

Ownership had nothing to do with hiring, or interviewing Benning (why are you making this up?), Linden, alone, hired Benning.

Benning knew full well what he was hired to do (rebuild on the fly), and Linden said one of the reasons he hired Benning was because of his scouting background.

Benning will probably lose his job. and there's a lot of reasons why he should, but your zealous campaign to skewer the GM is laughable.

[kanucks25]

2 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

Ownership had nothing to do with hiring, or interviewing Benning (why are you making this up?), Linden, alone, hired Benning.

Benning knew full well what he was hired to do (rebuild on the fly), and Linden said one of the reasons he hired Benning was because of his scouting background.

Benning will probably lose his job. and there's a lot of reasons why he should, but your zealous campaign to skewer the GM is laughable.

How do you know ownership wasn't involved?

 

And even if he wasn't directly involved, he was through Linden. The plan was passed down from ownership to Linden to Benning, perhaps it wasn't direct but it's essentially the same thing.

[Honky Cat]

3 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

It is quite obvious that the team owners did not sign Benning to start a rebuild.  They clearly thought a 'retool' would do the trick. Unfortunately, by 2015 it became certain that they had to start a rebuild.  The old core players were slipping in their stats and (other than Bo), there were no prospects to replace them.

 

Yep the rebuild started late, but the team is still looking good to make their mark in the next couple of years.

 

 

Agreed, that by 2015, they needed, a rebuild, but they did not

Eriksson, Gudbranson etc, were 'win now' moves.

They stopped signing high profile UFA's in 2016.(until they made a playoff push in 2019).