Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[wai_lai416]

On 4/4/2021 at 11:16 AM, appleboy said:

They won't have money to make any type of splash in the UFA market next year. Unless the contracts for Hughes and Petey come in much lower then we think.  Maybe this covid mess will encourage those guys to sign a reasonable bridge. Just to protect themselves from the uncertainty of this market.  

 

 

if anything they want to max their money now as who knows if covid will have a lingering effect on them long term performance wise

[Lancaster]

The "problem" with the last 7 years is the first couple of years of Benning's regime, the Canucks were still supposed to be playoff teams.  When GMJB arrived, the Canucks were just 2 years removed from their 2nd Presidents Trophy.  They still had good pieces and theoretically a couple of pieces from making another run or two.... hence the moves to add pieces.

 

Once the rebuild mode was on... the Canucks were pretty much screwed over for 2-3 drafts.  While the Canucks still got arguably the best players in both the 17 and 18 drafts, better draft position could have been leveraged or change the outcome of the 2016 draft completely.  

[ShawnAntoski]

49 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

The "problem" with the last 7 years is the first couple of years of Benning's regime, the Canucks were still supposed to be playoff teams.  When GMJB arrived, the Canucks were just 2 years removed from their 2nd Presidents Trophy.  They still had good pieces and theoretically a couple of pieces from making another run or two.... hence the moves to add pieces.

 

Once the rebuild mode was on... the Canucks were pretty much screwed over for 2-3 drafts.  While the Canucks still got arguably the best players in both the 17 and 18 drafts, better draft position could have been leveraged or change the outcome of the 2016 draft completely.  

Yeah, the monkey wrench of reality seems be there when it comes to any Canucks' plan or is it just Bettman & friends - conspiracy !

[Lancaster]

10 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, the monkey wrench of reality seems be there when it comes to any Canucks' plan or is it just Bettman & friends - conspiracy !

Maybe not a conspiracy per se, but luck does play a huge role in terms of rebuilding via the draft. 

I think the TML and the Canucks had just 1 different number for the 2016 draft.... it could have easily been Vancouver with Auston Matthews and then Toronto with Jake Virtanen.  

Everyone then would be claiming how GMJB is a genius at rebuilding the Canucks.  

 

Kind of like how someone asked Burke if the Pittsburgh rebuild was the model the follow... which he then replied that the Pens got lucky with winning the lotto for a generational player.

 

[ShawnAntoski]

5 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Maybe not a conspiracy per se, but luck does play a huge role in terms of rebuilding via the draft. 

I think the TML and the Canucks had just 1 different number for the 2016 draft.... it could have easily been Vancouver with Auston Matthews and then Toronto with Jake Virtanen.  

Everyone then would be claiming how GMJB is a genius at rebuilding the Canucks.  

 

Kind of like how someone asked Burke if the Pittsburgh rebuild was the model the follow... which he then replied that the Pens got lucky with winning the lotto for a generational player.

 

Yeah, I agree that there is alot of luck involve but the lottery rules or draft rules at the time will also need to be considered when discussing previous drafts cause the NHL has once again, implemented a few changes to the lottery/draft.

 

Mostly, just voicing the typical Canuck fan frustration when it comes to the draft - JB has never drafted higher than fifth despite the standings.

Edited April 6, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[higgyfan]

42 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

The "problem" with the last 7 years is the first couple of years of Benning's regime, the Canucks were still supposed to be playoff teams.  When GMJB arrived, the Canucks were just 2 years removed from their 2nd Presidents Trophy.  They still had good pieces and theoretically a couple of pieces from making another run or two.... hence the moves to add pieces.

 

Once the rebuild mode was on... the Canucks were pretty much screwed over for 2-3 drafts.  While the Canucks still got arguably the best players in both the 17 and 18 drafts, better draft position could have been leveraged or change the outcome of the 2016 draft completely.  

Pretty much how I see things.  Pete and Quinn are incredible hockey players, but I'm not certain they were the best of their drafts. JB scored in the 2015 draft with Brock, which wasn't anything to do with lotto or rebuild.

 

For me, the 2016 lotto draft, where the Nucks slipped from 3rd overall to 5th (we coulda/woulda/shoulda had  Dubois!!!!!) was horrible luck.  The following year, Nucks slipped from 2nd overall to 5th.  More bad luck.  With Dubois signed, they would surely have picked up Heiskanen.

2018 they only slip back to 10th spot.  Hughes is an excellent player at #10, but it's anyone's guess who they would have picked if they already had Heiskanen.  In retrospect, if he didn't pick Hughes, there sure was a potential for JB to pick a player that wasn't close to Hughes' skill level (Bouchard). 

 

In the end Canucks get Juolevi/Petterson/Hughes  instead of Dubois/Heiskanen/(Boquist, Bouchard, Walstrom, Dobson).

 

So yeah...JB did well considering the bad luck lotto. The one that got away has to be that Lotto 2016 draft.

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Pretty much how I see things.  Pete and Quinn are incredible hockey players, but I'm not certain they were the best of their drafts. JB scored in the 2015 draft with Brock, which wasn't anything to do with lotto or rebuild.

 

For me, the 2016 lotto draft, where the Nucks slipped from 3rd overall to 5th (we coulda/woulda/shoulda had  Dubois!!!!!) was horrible luck.  The following year, Nucks slipped from 2nd overall to 5th.  More bad luck.  With Dubois signed, they would surely have picked up Heiskanen.

2018 they only slip back to 10th spot.  Hughes is an excellent player at #10, but it's anyone's guess who they would have picked if they already had Heiskanen.  In retrospect, if he didn't pick Hughes, there sure was a potential for JB to pick a player that wasn't close to Hughes' skill level (Bouchard). 

 

In the end Canucks get Juolevi/Petterson/Hughes  instead of Dubois/Heiskanen/(Boquist, Bouchard, Walstrom, Dobson).

 

So yeah...JB did well considering the bad luck lotto. The one that got away has to be that Lotto 2016 draft.

 

 

Yeah, the 2016 was also a sticking point of how far we dropped and I remember a JB interview were his targeted player was PLD but Columbus went off board.  With hindsight, Laine seems to be regressing hard and the Jets who gained the most (still) ended up with PLD & the best years (currently) of Laine; seems to still be the biggest winner of that draft (although, let's see if PLD will resign after his contract ends).  As for Columbus, I believed they also jumped and the best player they ended up, seems to be Roslovic - a local kid; unless Laine comes back to form (?).

Edited April 6, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[RU SERIOUS]

I like the name of this Topic.   Isn't it about 7 years (on average) from day of marriage that couple either make it or break it?    Ironically, maybe Jim's day in the sun is coming up?????

Edited April 6, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Maybe not a conspiracy per se, but luck does play a huge role in terms of rebuilding via the draft. 

I think the TML and the Canucks had just 1 different number for the 2016 draft.... it could have easily been Vancouver with Auston Matthews and then Toronto with Jake Virtanen.  

Everyone then would be claiming how GMJB is a genius at rebuilding the Canucks.  

 

Kind of like how someone asked Burke if the Pittsburgh rebuild was the model the follow... which he then replied that the Pens got lucky with winning the lotto for a generational player.

 

 

This is basically what Toronto's supposed 'superior rebuild plan' boils down to. That and being 'hometown' to like half of the Canadian players.

 

And just look at the luck the NYR's have had with their rebuild. Started out with more saleable assets, then won a couple lotteries and also have the Big Apple draw to lure guys like Panarin and Trouba.

 

If Benning had half that luck on his side...

[Lancaster]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

This is basically what Toronto's supposed 'superior rebuild plan' boils down to. That and being 'hometown' to like half of the Canadian players.

 

And just look at the luck the NYR's have had with their rebuild. Started out with more saleable assets, then won a couple lotteries and also have the Big Apple draw to lure guys like Panarin and Trouba.

 

If Benning had half that luck on his side...

I always laugh when people use the TML as some model for rebuild.  Gifted a #1 overall pick and having a former first overall #1 centre only wanting to sign with your team at slightly below market value.... somehow took skills, lol.  

[Fred65]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

This is basically what Toronto's supposed 'superior rebuild plan' boils down to. That and being 'hometown' to like half of the Canadian players.

 

And just look at the luck the NYR's have had with their rebuild. Started out with more saleable assets, then won a couple lotteries and also have the Big Apple draw to lure guys like Panarin and Trouba.

 

If Benning had half that luck on his side...

TO did tank the Matthew draft, that's not luck it's a plan

[Boudrias]

It's a race to the bottom and the Flamers are winning!

[ShawnAntoski]

25 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

TO did tank the Matthew draft, that's not luck it's a plan

Yeah and based on the draft rules at the time they won the Matthews lottery and compared to 2016 were the Canucks were the second worst team in the league (based on the standings), the Canucks dropped to fifth - so planning is just one part...

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

It's a race to the bottom and the Flamers are winning!

Yeah, saw the standings and the Calgary Canucks are winning the race to the bottom. 

[alt kilgore]

Its troubling to still hear Benning talk about Pearson as his next top priority.  WTF?

I've never seen a GM do things so azzbackwards.  Retools, when he should be rebuilding.  Then, for that misjudged re-tool, he mis-evaluates first top six support players like LE and Gagner, then when that doesn't work out, he compounds the problem with the over-evaluation of  "foundational" bottom six he signs for his re-tool....just as his new amateur scouting director is making his own scouting skills look second rate,  with Jim's insistence on the Virtanen and Juolevi picks, while Brackett pushes for Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes for the team.  Brackett had to go obviously.

 

I really hope Jim is just trying, awkwardly, to make Pearson more attractive.  With all the noise put out about trying to lock him up for years. Does he think that will work on other GMs?  Another player whose best days are probably behind him. Before JB even knows how the contracts for Pettersson and Hughes will go. Great to lock up Demko, but that's also over a million more in cap space taken out of the equation next season too. 

 

If Pearson signs some really attractive offer, like 2 x 3,  or 3 x 2 even, fine.  Or if its 4 mill for one year, he'd be still good to have around on a year to year basis.  (Jake also should have been a one year) But I don't know how any fan can trust him now. Knowing JB, it will be 4 x 4, minimum.  A more creative and observant GM would continue to look at this point, for player acquisitions like Vevey, and Boyd.  Other cheap deals for hungry players who become superfluous to other good teams.  At least until we figure out how and who we can keep out of....Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Miller, and Horvat. 

No more of these setting up for future problems please....I'm begging you Jim.  Actually I'm begging Aquilini to please switch JB out before he locks up a new set of "foundational" pieces, in exchange for ending up in a position to not be able to keep Miller or Boeser.

[Nuxfanabroad]

We need to move past persistent negativity..hopefully the team rallies together.

[CaptKirk888]

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

We need to move past persistent negativity..hopefully the team rallies together.

Thanks Nuxfan. I was going to respond to the post above your's but decided to not bother. 

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

Its troubling to still hear Benning talk about Pearson as his next top priority.  WTF?

I've never seen a GM do things so azzbackwards.  Retools, when he should be rebuilding.  Then, for that misjudged re-tool, he mis-evaluates first top six support players like LE and Gagner, then when that doesn't work out, he compounds the problem with the over-evaluation of  "foundational" bottom six he signs for his re-tool....just as his new amateur scouting director is making his own scouting skills look second rate,  with Jim's insistence on the Virtanen and Juolevi picks, while Brackett pushes for Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes for the team.  Brackett had to go obviously.

 

I really hope Jim is just trying, awkwardly, to make Pearson more attractive.  With all the noise put out about trying to lock him up for years. Does he think that will work on other GMs?  Another player whose best days are probably behind him. Before JB even knows how the contracts for Pettersson and Hughes will go. Great to lock up Demko, but that's also over a million more in cap space taken out of the equation next season too. 

 

If Pearson signs some really attractive offer, like 2 x 3,  or 3 x 2 even, fine.  Or if its 4 mill for one year, he'd be still good to have around on a year to year basis.  (Jake also should have been a one year) But I don't know how any fan can trust him now. Knowing JB, it will be 4 x 4, minimum.  A more creative and observant GM would continue to look at this point, for player acquisitions like Vevey, and Boyd.  Other cheap deals for hungry players who become superfluous to other good teams.  At least until we figure out how and who we can keep out of....Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Miller, and Horvat. 

No more of these setting up for future problems please....I'm begging you Jim.  Actually I'm begging Aquilini to please switch JB out before he locks up a new set of "foundational" pieces, in exchange for ending up in a position to not be able to keep Miller or Boeser.

Great points and hopefully, JB has developed situational awareness when it comes to signing support type players to term (especially, one's that are 30+).  Also, another thing to consider: how teams are going to be conducting business during this pandemic.

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Great points and hopefully, JB has developed situational awareness when it comes to signing support type players to term (especially, one's that are 30+).  Also, another thing to consider: how teams are going to be conducting business during this pandemic.

Don't bet your house on that, history tell us different. If he signs Pearson ( as much as I like him ) any where near to what Toffoli signed in Mtl it'll be a bust. I like Pearson but Ilike Toffoli a lot more

Edited April 7, 2021 by Fred65

[ShawnAntoski]

6 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Don't bet your house on that, history tell us different. If he signs Pearson ( as much as I like him ) any where near to what Toffoli signed in Mtl it'll be a bust. I like Pearson but Ilike Toffoli a lot more

I am definitely not holding my breath but it seems (in small sampler size) that JB is still evolving - imo.  This tdl and offseason will say alot - is it more of the same hold & let walk or something else but the covid economy & cap will certainly have some say, as to how the teams will be doing business moving forward...

Edited April 7, 2021 by ShawnAntoski