Time To Jettison Aging Vets?

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’m pretty sure we can sign a backup next year for $1.5 million who will give us the same numbers as Holtby this year, 3.57 GAA, .894% SV.  Those numbers are brutal. Paying a backup $4.3 million to play 25 games and produce those kind of numbers would be terrible. 

I don't believe Holtby will be as bad as those numbers long term. He came to a new team, with a new goalie coach, basically no preseason or practice time and had a tire fire playing in front of him for the majority of his paltry 12 games thus far.

 

That's hardly ideal conditions and you know what they say about small sample sizes.

 

WAY too much premature exasperation about his play/contract.

 

Quote

The Canucks will need to be competitive next year. This year was a write off but next year there will be fans in the stands. The expectations will be much higher for this team. Every penny will count when it comes to the cap. If we can free up $2 million by buying out Holtby that can help us to get a 3C so we can have a competitive 3rd line next year. Hamonic may not sign here so we’d also need money to have someone to play with Hughes. I’m hoping we can somehow trade Virtanen so we can free up an additional $2.5 million so we can get a long term partner for Hughes. 

 

 

Already outlined this elsewhere:

 

On 3/30/2021 at 11:29 AM, aGENT said:

@Kootenay GoldI outlined this yesterday in another thread.

 

After differed bonuses and re-signing Petey, Hughes and Demko ($18m) etc, we have about $10m. Add an (all but certain) Eriksson buyout and we're up to about $12m.

 

Plus we're going to lose someone's cap in the ED.

 

Add Rathbone, Podkolzin, likely Lind or similar and that's around $3m. Tryamkin around $2m.

 

I'm hoping we can trade (Virtanen + ?) for the 3C we need adding about $500k-$1m.

 

My math shows about $5-$6m left to re-sign one of Edler or Hamonic.

 

Buyout Roussel as well and we gain another $1.2m (minus his replacement). Someone like Boyd or Hawryluck on a $700-$800k deal saves another half million.

 

We have plenty of space.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I don't believe Holtby will be as bad as those numbers long term. He came to a new team, with a new goalie coach, basically no preseason or practice time and had a tire fire playing in front of him for the majority of his paltry 12 games thus far.

 

That's hardly ideal conditions and you know what they say about small sample sizes.

 

WAY too much premature exasperation about his play/contract.

 

Already outlined this elsewhere:

 

 

Holtby’s numbers were pretty much identical last year in Washington where he played almost 50 games. He is on a downward trend and I don’t see him getting any better. Not even Ian Clark will be able to fix him. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Holtby’s numbers were pretty much identical last year in Washington where he played almost 50 games. He is on a downward trend and I don’t see him getting any better. Not even Ian Clark will be able to fix him. 

We shall see

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Holtby’s numbers were pretty much identical last year in Washington where he played almost 50 games. He is on a downward trend and I don’t see him getting any better. Not even Ian Clark will be able to fix him. 

Why was there any belief that he would get better? that's fantasy. The worse part of course was paying $4 mill for 2 years, tough to manage a Cap with signings like that. Just think after Markstrom left JB signed Holtby for $4+ and then added Harmonic for a $1+. That money could have secured Taffoli 

[Chris12345]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:15 AM, 24K PureCool said:

Cause it saves as $2mil in cap space next year and only cost us $1mil in cap space the following year when we have Lu's cap hit finally off the books. I guess Spooner too (not sure if that comes off this year or the next)? 

Cash flow vs buyouts.

 

Cash is king and I doubt Aqua is cutting any cheques. That is why the payroll is lower than the cap.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

24 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Why was there any belief that he would get better? that's fantasy. The worse part of course was paying $4 mill for 2 years, tough to manage a Cap with signings like that. Just think after Markstrom left JB signed Holtby for $4+ and then added Harmonic for a $1+. That money could have secured Taffoli 

Holtby’s contract is very buyout friendly. I’m sure Benning will use that option in the summer. No use in keeping a backup around for $4.3 million when his SV% is .894. 
 

Sure we could have signed somebody else for cheaper. I guess the thinking was Demko wasn’t yet a bonafide starter and also maybe Ian Clark could have fixed Holtby. Looks like not even Clark can fix him unfortunately. 
 

As for Toffoli, we have Podkolzin coming next year. From everything I have seen he looks like he can step onto BO’s wing immediately. So I wouldn’t worry too much about our top 6.  It’s the bottom 6 that needs fixing. 

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Holtby’s contract is very buyout friendly. I’m sure Benning will use that option in the summer. No use in keeping a backup around for $4.3 million when his SV% is .894. 
 

Sure we could have signed somebody else for cheaper. I guess the thinking was Demko wasn’t yet a bonafide starter and also maybe Ian Clark could have fixed Holtby. Looks like not even Clark can fix him unfortunately. 
 

As for Toffoli, we have Podkolzin coming next year. From everything I have seen he looks like he can step onto BO’s wing immediately. So I wouldn’t worry too much about our top 6.  It’s the bottom 6 that needs fixing. 

It'll be a long while if Podkolzyn ever reaches Taffoli numbers, IMO. I think many underestimate Taffoli's shot, accurate and heavy. I may be wrong but Podkolzyn has not so far shown he's a high scoring player, he might well do but his currents stats don't show that

[Chris12345]

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Holtby’s contract is very buyout friendly. I’m sure Benning will use that option in the summer. No use in keeping a backup around for $4.3 million when his SV% is .894. 
 

Sure we could have signed somebody else for cheaper. I guess the thinking was Demko wasn’t yet a bonafide starter and also maybe Ian Clark could have fixed Holtby. Looks like not even Clark can fix him unfortunately. 
 

As for Toffoli, we have Podkolzin coming next year. From everything I have seen he looks like he can step onto BO’s wing immediately. So I wouldn’t worry too much about our top 6.  It’s the bottom 6 that needs fixing. 

If there is no revenue I don't think the cheque cutting process is easy.

[zimmy]

13 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

It'll be a long while if Podkolzyn ever reaches Taffoli numbers, IMO. I think many underestimate Taffoli's shot, accurate and heavy. I may be wrong but Podkolzyn has not so far shown he's a high scoring player, he might well do but his currents stats don't show that

True enough but, from my observations, Pods plays with a determined edge and energy which Toffoli doesn’t quite match. As well, speaking of numbers, the most important number to consider when comparing these two is the entry level contract Pods will bringing with him from Russia.

[Devron]

Could be some growing pains next year as well but I can see most of the fan base getting their wish. Should be lots of young guys over the next couple years. Hopefully they develop into younger better versions of the aging depth We have now. Might not be a cup over the next 2 Years but should be exciting stuff nevertheless

Edited April 1, 2021 by Devron44

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, zimmy said:

True enough but, from my observations, Pods plays with a determined edge and energy which Toffoli doesn’t quite match. As well, speaking of numbers, the most important number to consider when comparing these two is the entry level contract Pods will bringing with him from Russia.

Don't get me wrong I'm looking forward to seeing Podkolzyn, a good chnace that he changes the dynamics of the roster. But Taffoli bring goals and at the end of the day it's the score that determines success. Taffoli has 18 goals so far, 2 better than Boeser

[RU SERIOUS]

All the Old timer/deadwood players MUST be let go.  Hopefully JB can trade them before their contracts expire, otherwise DO NOT RENEW ANY OF THEM.  This team needs to finally Purge the $20M this year and $22M next year of anchor old/legacy contracts once and for all and get younger, faster and especially grittier.  We will NEVER win a Cup with a bunch of Finesse players alone and I think we all know this and why we need to purge the last of the mediocre Senior citizens once and for all and get some decent support players for our young stars.    Of course, we also need to include the PURGING of Lazy Jake who is a total washout. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[zimmy]

7 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Don't get me wrong I'm looking forward to seeing Podkolzyn, a good chnace that he changes the dynamics of the roster. But Taffoli bring goals and at the end of the day it's the score that determines success. Taffoli has 18 goals so far, 2 better than Boeser

Again, quite true. My personal outlook, however, is long versus short term.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Size, speed & youth all need to be further shuffled into the deck. If JB can maintain his drafting standards, these ingredients should fall into place, on the cheap.

 

Nice thing is he's drafted many good character kids over the past 7 yrs. With the tutoring/influence they've gained over these several seasons, I'm hoping for a seamless transition to the next gen of leadership.

 

Lastly, a tight-knit bunch might be more willing to sign reasonable AAV's, in order to keep a good squad intact.

[Fred65]

26 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Size, speed & youth all need to be further shuffled into the deck. If JB can maintain his drafting standards, these ingredients should fall into place, on the cheap.

 

Nice thing is he's drafted many good character kids over the past 7 yrs. With the tutoring/influence they've gained over these several seasons, I'm hoping for a seamless transition to the next gen of leadership.

 

Lastly, a tight-knit bunch might be more willing to sign reasonable AAV's, in order to keep a good squad intact.

Agents tend to overlook dressing room friendships in favour of hard cash  LOL   ... they guard their commissions to the death

[Nuxfanabroad]

9 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Agents tend to overlook dressing room friendships in favour of hard cash  LOL   ... they guard their commissions to the death

Whatever variables you choose to cite, I'm quite content with contracts when they range from Horvat to Demko numbers. If other talented youth follow suit, things shape up nicely.

[Fred65]

14 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Whatever variables you choose to cite, I'm quite content with contracts when they range from Horvat to Demko numbers. If other talented youth follow suit, things shape up nicely.

Credit where it's due Horvat has turned out to be great, it still has a further two years left. Demko I think in in line with other, Hellebucyk is at $6.1 and he on the Vezina, but a team benefit with the length

[The Lock]

I think it really comes down to the kind of vets we get. If they look like they're going to benefit the team long term then sign them long term. If not, sign them short term or don't sign them at all. It doesn't have to be rocket science and it doesn't really have to depend on the development of where our younger players are.

 

So I say have the core as the developing players and just complement them with veterans throughout.

[Toyotasfan]

I will shotgun a beer in celebration if anyone takes Sutter at the TDL. 5 years of overpaid mediocrity is long enough.

[wai_lai416]

20 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So we are supposed to write off next year completely so we can save $1.9 million in cap space for 2022?

 

Tell that to the fans who are going to be buying tickets next year. See what they say.  Luckily the building was empty this year. 

Okay? So we going all in next year buy everyone out and spend to the cap just so we can make the fans happy? Even though this team won't be good enough to contend for the cup? The goal I guess is not win a cup but to keep handicapping the team with dead cap every season just to make the fans happy. After buying these guys out then we'll prolly be talking about buying Myers out then whoever next the following season. When was the last time the canucks even had a full cap to spend and not have any cap retention buy out penalty.. or cap sitting in the press box buryed in the minor? Oh right never in the Benning era and we want to continue that for another decade