Canucks fans fly #FireBenning banner over Vancouver

[Bad_BOI_pete]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Flat cap was known about back in April of last year, before our "playoff run".

 

Lots of time and information to make the correct decisions. But, as Benning put it himself, he "ran out of time".

not really, benning made the decision to sign a defenceman and  goalie before spending too much time with toffoli.

holtby was signed on the 9th and toffoli on  the tenth.

 

he wasn't ready to give up on virtanen, and that likely meant we needed to trade  myers for  a 3rd or 4th. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I am having a hard time understanding why a GM that has led the team to more bottom-5 finishes than playoff rounds would be considered "the best GM we have ever had"?

 

Like I know our franchise doesn't have the most storied history but jeez...

we have been trying, but all you expect is tampa contracts and buffalo and ottawa UFA trades. I wonder  how many players no  trade list has  buffalo and ottawa on them.

[VegasCanuck]

53 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Like hiring Torts for 1 year?

 

e/ against the wishes of his GM that gave him the most successful team in franchise history, only to fire both a year later.

 

v knowledge, v

Unless  you can prove otherwise, the idea that Hiring Torts was Aqua's decision and not in full agreement with Gillis, was, and still is, 100% speculation with zero proof.

[VegasCanuck]

56 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Flat cap was known about back in April of last year, before our "playoff run".

 

Lots of time and information to make the correct decisions. But, as Benning put it himself, he "ran out of time".

How do you correct any decisions that you made, on trades etc, when there is a trade freeze in effect.

 

Benning made a trade for Toffoli, about 2 or 3 weeks before we found out that there would be a flat cap or a pause to the season. He did it because he didn't think Boeser would be back in time and wanted to give the team a chance to win.

 

Most GM's in the NHL with a team in the position the Canucks were in, would happily make that trade, even if they did know that they had little chance of resigning him.

 

That is how the NHL works.

 

[canuckleheads fan]

Totally classless move.  It's exactly why a lot of players don't want to come to Vancouver, and one of the reasons management has to offer over market contracts to UFAs.  Every season the fanbase picks a whipping boy, rarely does he survive the lashes, thought I'm really happy that Myers seems to have survived, because I've liked him from the start.

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Pretty decent summary until the last sentence.

 

Gillis retained his coach (something that is rare for a new GM across all sports when his predecessor is fired for lack of results) and only hired one during his entire tenure which was a decision allegedly forced upon him by ownership.

I would say Gillis held onto AV for at least a season too long. And the Torts hiring was just doomed from the start.

[wallstreetamigo]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:24 PM, aGENT said:

There's FAR more to building a team than eking every last drop off value out of team assets (AKA players, AKA humans, as you pointed out). It's certainly a part of team building but it is not the actual goal, nor should it be the only focus.

 

It also myopically ignores the value in retaining those players.

 

And regardless, we're hardly left wanting in regards to our prospect pool and organizational depth despite this so called asset management 'failing'. Forest. Trees.

 

Getting value out of assets is kind of the whole goal and absolutely should be a focus. Whether that is value on the ice, with their contract, in a trade, etc., its still the entire goal of the team to get value out of them. If not, then why not just sign a beer league team of nice accountants and construction workers who like to pal around and have fun? Its not atom rep where the coach puts all his kid's friends on the team even if they suck at hockey.

 

So you are saying there was no value in retaining Toffoli, Tanev, Markstrom, Stecher then? All of them seemed to be well liked. And why not get assets for them rather than let them walk for nothing? That hardly seems evil.

 

Is it fair to say chasing a terrible long term contract on a declining player we didn't need who wasnt on our team (OEL) and not even bothering to talk to Toffoli or Tanev until the last minute was the GM "team building" and treating those players like valuable humans and players?

 

I would have kept either of those players over Pearson every day of the week. And I would have rather had either than OEL.

[kanucks25]

56 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Totally classless move.  It's exactly why a lot of players don't want to come to Vancouver, and one of the reasons management has to offer over market contracts to UFAs.  Every season the fanbase picks a whipping boy, rarely does he survive the lashes, thought I'm really happy that Myers seems to have survived, because I've liked him from the start.

Well, at least this is a new one.

 

I've heard of a lot of ... let's call them "interesting"... excuses for the mismanagement under Benning but the Canucks having to pay players a premium because of their fans is definitely up there.

[wallstreetamigo]

8 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Well, at least this is a new one.

 

I've heard of a lot of ... let's call them "interesting"... excuses for the mismanagement under Benning but the Canucks having to pay players a premium because of their fans is definitely up there.

Players in general dont care what fans think of them. They know what comes with the territory. I would bet good money not a single player has ever brought up a teams fans, their online forums, their vitriol toward certain players, etc. in a contract negotiation ever for any team.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Players in general dont care what fans think of them. They know what comes with the territory. I would bet good money not a single player has ever brought up a teams fans, their online forums, their vitriol toward certain players, etc. in a contract negotiation ever for any team.

Pretty bold to throw that out there when Bieksa and Lack both just took jabs at local media regarding the circus that goes on around the team. 
 

You and @kanucks25 have managed to write off any possible psychological effects on the team from a toxic fanbase/media.  That’s the kind of tone deaf outlook that brings on the “have you ever played a sport” or “this isn’t a video game” cliches.

Edited April 24, 2021 by ilduce39

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I would say Gillis held onto AV for at least a season too long. And the Torts hiring was just doomed from the start.

Lol.   I'd say the owner held onto Gillis one year too long, and AV never deserved to be fired. 

[kanucks25]

20 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Pretty bold to throw that out there when Bieksa and Lack both just took jabs at local media regarding the circus that goes on around the team. 
 

You and @kanucks25 have managed to write off any possible psychological effects on the team from a toxic fanbase/media.  That’s the kind of tone deaf outlook that brings on the “have you ever played a sport” or “this isn’t a video game” cliches.

I never said it didn't have an effect.

 

It's just something that comes with the territory in any sport. You know what you're going to get from a hockey fanbase in Vancouver, or a hockey fanbase in Toronto, or a football fanbase in Dallas, or a New York fanbase in any sport. It's ironic you take that "have you ever played a sport" jab when this is a pretty simple concept for anyone who pays attention to sports outside the Vancouver Canucks.

 

 

In hockey, we hear all the time that X player doesn't want to play in Canada because of the media/pressure/fans. But then we also hear, whenever a medium-big name free agent signs with a Canadian team, that the "passionate fanbase" was a big factor in the decision. So yes, it matters (both ways), but I was addressing the notion that the Canucks fan base is especially toxic in particular compared to any other sport-mad market. It's a completely asinine and baseless idea.

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I never said it didn't have an effect.

 

It's just something that comes with the territory in any sport. You know what you're going to get from a hockey fanbase in Vancouver, or a hockey fanbase in Toronto, or a football fanbase in Dallas, or a New York fanbase in any sport. It's ironic you take that "have you ever played a sport" jab when this is a pretty simple concept for anyone who pays attention to sports outside the Vancouver Canucks.

 

 

In hockey, we hear all the time that X player doesn't want to play in Canada because of the media/pressure/fans. But then we also hear, whenever a medium-big name free agent signs with a Canadian team, that the "passionate fanbase" was a big factor in the decision. So yes, it matters (both ways), but I was addressing the notion that the Canucks fan base is especially toxic in particular compared to any other sport-mad market. It's a completely asinine and baseless idea.

Two game sevens, two riots, an infant like chant and t-shirts made "everyone hates us we don't care " blah blah.   There is some evidence our fans don't take their stakeholder responsibly, in fact there is quite a lot on this site.   Doesn't mean we have to agree and rah rah blindly, but a certain amount of manners go a long way.   Saying things like Dim Jim ... a lot of examples really. 

[Timråfan]

53 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Pretty bold to throw that out there when Bieksa and Lack both just took jabs at local media regarding the circus that goes on around the team. 
 

You and @kanucks25 have managed to write off any possible psychological effects on the team from a toxic fanbase/media.  That’s the kind of tone deaf outlook that brings on the “have you ever played a sport” or “this isn’t a video game” cliches.

So when Benning makes an ex player for the Canucks hated by the fans it's ok? 

Bennings negative psychological effect on the team is brutal.

A GM should always look for every positive angle in every single situation.

Benning is bad at that.

 

And when is journalists the same as fans?

[Timråfan]

26 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Two game sevens, two riots, an infant like chant and t-shirts made "everyone hates us we don't care " blah blah.   There is some evidence our fans don't take their stakeholder responsibly, in fact there is quite a lot on this site.   Doesn't mean we have to agree and rah rah blindly, but a certain amount of manners go a long way.   Saying things like Dim Jim ... a lot of examples really. 

A GM is paid to handle that.

 

Can you list all the things Benning is good at as a GM? 

 

Now I don't want to see "he drafted great" or something similar.

You should know that a GM picks from what the scouts push forward and it all depends on how bad the team has played during the season before. 

The two best players Benning picked out of the crop is two small players.

I am all for players that can play hockey.

The pity with NHL is that that league isn't nice to small players as we see now with Petey injured for a long time.

So Bennings draft of two small really good players can be ended in just one season.

How will you describe Benning as GM then?

If he's only achievement as the top head of scouting is blown by injuries... 

[Darkstar]

I actually really love this gesture from Canucks fans. It shows the passion and love for the team a lot more than people think.

 

Benning has mishandled so many pieces during his tenure, and at some point, he needs to be held accountable. 

 

I do agree that the media does have a negative effect on players, but ultimately, this gesture definitely wouldn't be a part of that. When the media talks about Quinn Hughes being on an IV when he wasn't, that's an issue. When the fans are upset that several of the players were mishandled during this COVID outbreak, as well as in the offseason, I'm sure at least some of the players are in agreement with the fans in this situation. 

 

It's unfair that the players get treated like crap by the media but management gets away scot-free. I see managers like Bergevin getting grilled for their moves, but Benning either hides from the media, or gets thrown soft-ball questions. 

 

It's pretty crazy how the Canucks organization is currently flipped in terms of the success of their management vs the scouting department. The current scouting department has been incredible, but the management has been sub-par. This is different from previous tenures, where the General Manager was good but the Scouting Staff was sub-par (Burke, Gillis, etc).

 

Benning is the worst cap manager in the league, and it's not even close. He throws out contracts and no-trade clauses like they are candy, and essentially has created a glut of awful players on horrendous contracts. The scary thing going forward is that once these contracts are done, Benning will continue to sign depth pieces to ridiculous contracts, which will continue to prevent him from re-signing the core players on the team (ie: Toffoli and Tanev). 

 

Regardless of the flat cap environment, the Canucks should not have been a team that was struggling with cap issues, especially since their two best players are currently on an ELC and the team hadn't made the playoffs in 5 years. He deserves to be fired as he has shown time and time again that he doesn't have the skill to manage the salary cap, and will essentially hinder the team with poor contracts over and over again. Put a half-decent General Manager on this team with the current scouting staff in place, and this team wins a cup within 3 years. Keep Benning on, and the Canucks will never reach the heights necessary to win a cup.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Pretty bold to throw that out there when Bieksa and Lack both just took jabs at local media regarding the circus that goes on around the team. 
 

You and @kanucks25 have managed to write off any possible psychological effects on the team from a toxic fanbase/media.  That’s the kind of tone deaf outlook that brings on the “have you ever played a sport” or “this isn’t a video game” cliches.

The local media are not the fanbase. The complaint from Bieksa was how the media can create drama for the team and players through what they report.

 

Every professional sports team can be described as having a toxic fan base to some degree. Ours isnt any worse than many others. If Benning or any player is so thin skinned that fans flying a banner would bother them then they need to go asap.

 

Oh, and 20 plus years of dealing with actual pro athletes has produced exactly 0 cases of me ever hearing one of them bring up, in any context, a toxic fanbase as a major complaint. In my personal experience its not a big deal to them because they just accept it is just part of the gig to deal with criticism, even if its unfair or hyperbolic. I dont think you understand the kind of pressure they deal with every day. Toxic fans would not rank very high on their list of concerns. Certainly not high enough to elicit demands for more money to sign as a ufa. That was one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen on cdc.

 

 

[spur1]

5 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I am having a hard time understanding why a GM that has led the team to more bottom-5 finishes than playoff rounds would be considered "the best GM we have ever had"?

 

Like I know our franchise doesn't have the most storied history but jeez...

Patience grasshopper. 

[spur1]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

So when Benning makes an ex player for the Canucks hated by the fans it's ok? 

Bennings negative psychological effect on the team is brutal.

A GM should always look for every positive angle in every single situation.

Benning is bad at that.

 

And when is journalists the same as fans?

What kind of pipe dream am I reading here?

[wallstreetamigo]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Lol.   I'd say the owner held onto Gillis one year too long, and AV never deserved to be fired. 

He probably did hold on to Gillis too long. And AV did deserve to be fired.