Benning on donnie and dhali

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Alain Vigneault said:

  So, if you've ever called Baumgartner an "idiot", or Green "a terrible coach", or Newell Brown "incompetent", and now draw the line at Benning criticism simply because it's expressed on a more heightened scale (evidence that fans believe he's the issue), go kick rocks or something lmfao

What if you think all those things are myopic, oversimplified nonsense?

[canuck73_3]

7 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Here we think completely opposit.

A GM is in a position of power. 

To use his words in the way he did is an abuse of power and the honesty or truth has nothing to do with it. 

Benning lies as anybody else. 

If you believe Benning doesn't lie you have even bluer eyes than me... 

 

Good god Dahlen and Loui suck move on. Everyone else has. 

[spook007]

How the f can anyone turn this interview into something negative....

The man answers every question without hiding, and admit to just about everything.

 

Like or loathe Benning, but he as forth coming and honest as anyone I've ever heard.

[spook007]

10 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Peoples “freedoms” end where other’s begin.
 

JB should have the freedom to go to the supermarket without being harassed.  His daughter should have the freedom to live her life without experiencing her dad being publicly bullied on radio, TV, the internet and social media. (Because let’s face it - the discussion around Benning has gone waaaaaay past calm discussions about his successes and failures.)  There’s parody videos, a web comic, countless throwaway posts calling him an idiot, an airplane banner, hundreds of hours of radio or podcast call-ins and commentary running the guy down.  
 

You can’t swing a dead cat on a Canuck topic without someone reciting the “seven years of benning’s mistakes” like it’s some kind of monastic chant.  When nothing has happened lately, I get to read fantasies (or tired old jokes) made up by the media and fans about the next horrible thing that will happen as though it’s already written in stone.  Ian Clarke leaving, guys demanding trades, the Myers 7x7 contract, Petey and Hughes signing for a combined 20 mil. When they aren’t re-living things from 6 or 7 years ago it’s “outrage” over stuff that hasn’t happened yet.  
 

Reading an article about offseason strategy, I have to sift through half a dozen little jabs at management to placate the mob before they basically conclude that once we ride out this year we’re likely in great shape (assuming the on ice product evens out.) 
 

That’s where the critical group completely lost me - it’s snowballed into an excuse to indulge in some sociopathic / or just plain pathetic self-pitying behaviour.  

Thanks... Spot on... Social media, where any clown is an expert... Trolling upon trolling, if they can have it their way...

[spook007]

9 hours ago, zimmy said:

Not saying lots of things happened that I and many questioned. But some of us have let those things go to some degree and moved on. You seem to be save those negative reactions in some kind of reserve that might be pulled out when the moment suits you. Yah, that was an okay signing but remember when Rousel/Beagle/Myers etc etc?  
 

Maybe I’m wrong, but your constant and consistent desire to hold JB accountable does not seem in line with taking a clean slate/fresh approach. You can be an effective observer without being so didactic. 

I'd say its slowly moving into trolling territory.... 

[spook007]

9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Which are incredibly subjective in nature and therefore are almost impossible to enforce. Freedom of speech does not have a bunch of asterisks attached to it for good reason.

I don't know you Wallstreet, but you are really starting to sound like some Nazi protester, that screams freedom of speech when the bill has to be paid for all their garbage... 

Definitely not like a manager in company with lots of employees....

Edited May 30, 2021 by spook007

[CanucksJay]

I like that Benning is so transparent. 

I'm hoping that players like working for a boss who is straight forward instead of playing mind games. 

I'm hoping that his honesty looks attractive to potential UFAs. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

5 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, what's been interesting is most fans have been freaking out thinking as soon as the Canucks season ended, Clark would automatically be gone, and they seemed to think the same with Green.

 

Unless someone knows something different, I believe l coaching contracts have the same start and stop date as players, meaning that Clark is still under contract with the Canucks until June 30th. If we were in the playoffs and still playing, he would still be coaching Demko.

 

Am I wrong here? Most employment contracts in professional sports have a start and stop date as well as escape/termination clauses.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure all contracts run for the hockey season, and not calendar year, so team contractual employees, whether players, managers, coaches, scouts, etc, would all have contract years that run from July 1st to June 30th.

 

The main difference is that it’s very unusual for anyone other than players to actually work through almost the entire season, during the final years of their deals, without having an extension in place. This is, of course, completely normal for players, but for coaches/managers/etc, the “lame duck” label gets applied as soon as they enter their final year.

 

It’s usually a signal that the team is unsure about whether or not they’ll be bringing someone back, or that they’ve already mostly decided not to. It’s almost never the case that teams run out the final year on a contract for someone they’re completely happy with and intend to retain. It’s just not how things tend to get done.

 

This season, in addition to the coaching staff, the Canucks also waited until well into the final contract years of many of their scouts, which is highly unusual. Scouts are usually extended much sooner than that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a scouting staff that’s had to face the uncertainty of waiting that late for their extensions.

 

The coaches, well, they were kind of on the hot seat, and it’s probably fair to say that the owners weren’t really sure whether or not they wanted to bring Green back, and so they kind of were letting him twist in the wind for most of the season.
 

(Possibly this was a negotiating play, as I’m sure Green wanted more than two years, and he probably wanted a significant bump in salary. Apparently he got the salary, or close to what he wanted, but had to give in on the term.)

 

And, at the very least, a “lame duck” coach creates an unnecessary distraction, when it comes to media and fans.
 

It also affects the way the coach works with his team.
 

It’s generally not a good thing to have somebody coaching to keep their job, versus coaching for what’s best for the team, both short and long term. 
 

Same can be said for managers.

 

We know that Benning was allowed to make preliminary offers at the beginning of the season, when it came to coaching extensions, but then something happened, and it would seem that ownership stepped in and forced him to press pause. Jim gave several interviews during the year where he indicated that he wanted to bring back Travis and the staff. But nothing was getting done for most of the season. Pretty much radio silence. Then, the owners had their talks with the advisors, they decided Benning would be brought back (even though he was under contract for two more years, it was apparently still necessary to tell him on May 18th that he was actually returning next season), Francesco decided to loosen the purse strings, empowered his manager to start managing the team again, and very quickly, almost like magic, a Green extension was done, and Jim was allowed to start negotiations with Ian Clark, and consulting with Travis on filling out the rest of the coaching staff.

 

It was weird. 
 

Of course, it’s also been a very weird year.

 

But the way these negotiations and extensions have gone down, whether the head coach, assistants, or the scouting department, has been far from “business as usual” in the NHL.

 

Not even “business as usual” for the Vancouver Canucks.

 

(For example, Gillis and Vigenault were given their extensions in May 2012, while both still had the full 2012-13 season remaining on their multiyear deals.)

 

I know many people on CDC prefer to take an “everything’s fine” and “there’s nothing to see here” approach to the way the team has handled things this season. They would like to think it was just media “fake news” or the anti-Benning crowd on Twitter stirring up trouble. But it’s pretty clear that the owners had all options on the table, even as recently as early May, and that even included firing the GM and his management team, as well as clearing house on the entire coaching staff.

 

It now looks like most, and possibly all, will be coming back.

 

But it would be a mistake to think that any of this was a certainty, or that the way things played out this year was anything close to normal, as far as how NHL teams usually tend to operate (unless a major change in direction was, in fact, being seriously considered by ownership).

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

Good god Dahlen and Loui suck move on. Everyone else has. 

Who cares about them in the Canucks?

Benning is GM and he can’t handle communication.

That is very bad for the organisation.

Get a President or whatever but don’t let Benning do the interviews.

 

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, combover said:

Yeah I wanted the team to start rebuilding 7 years ago we should have been top 5 top ten in picks however 

we shouldn’t be drafting top ten 7 years later.

first 5 seasons it was expected. 
except Jim  and company wanted a playoff spot to be clear not a cup but a playoff spot. That alone was stupid.what he did when he came it set this club back. 

 

So instead of actually being competitive now we’re still rebuilding drafting top ten and have zero depth at any position so thats a crappy manger on any team. 

If Jim was in charge of the flames for 7 years and did what he’s done here nobody here would be praising him. Laughing at him yes but not praising him. 

Now Let me ask you

if jbs contract was up at season end do honestly think he would have been resigned?

 

 

 

What you wanted, and what was reasonable are two different things.   Just be happy the mistakes of previous management, or cloud or whatever you want to call what happened as a result of being a top team with no pool, all claused up is almost finally over.   The moment the Sedins signed their final deal the options shrunk to almost nothing but re-tool.    It worked for one year, two years after a presidents trophy we finished 7th overall.   The goalie drama was gone, eventually by 2017 Bieksa, Hansen and Burrows all waived, ALL contracts were honoured (and yes players were asked to waive and yes some players asked to waive as well).   By then a shadow of the returns we could of got. 

 

At least UFAs know they will be treated well here, their clauses will be honoured etc.   

 

SJ went through the same thing, it worked at better for them.   But now they will also be staring down a very long rebuild, with aging vets with NMC as well.   It happens.   Detroit went is also in full rebuild mode now too.  

 

The only thing i'm not certain of is are we really done rebuilding?   That's debatable.    You aren't the only one i know that wanted to let the Sedins walk (as a pair they were never getting traded, and as every Canuck fan knows neither of them wanted to go to a contender either).    That would have been the time to do something, and build around Kesler  .... who actually did want to leave.     

 

Pretty logical course (re-tool).   What else could they have done?   Tell all MG country club guys none of their clauses would be honoured? 

 

Edit:  Also wonder how the fan base would have related if the Sedins were allowed to walk without another deal....and nothing in return either. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Because the average fan looks past that and thinks that a GM should be able to build a cup contender in 7 years regardless of circumstances.

The average fan maybe yes i can see that.   An informed fan, who you'd hope most regulars on this are, should at least look at other teams in the league, specifically ones with similar cycles (that would be SJ and Detroit), and make an informed decision on what is and what isn't reasonable with context added.   Even if we weren't a great team from 2000-2014 (like SJ and Detroit, nobody won more games during that span) and just for clumped in with any rebuilding teams cycle it's pretty shocking what it actually takes these days.    One of the reasons teams re-tool until there really isn't another option.  

 

Gone are the days of a 4 year rebuild.   OTT has just missed four in a row.   TO...well i suppose they can say they did it ... finally, but it's not the norm.   Or average.   Unfortunately it takes time.   Our rebuild didn't officially start until 2017 when we finally got a few tidbits for guys who were claused up and didn't want to leave in 2014.    Call the entire thing a rebuild, two playoffs in 7 years.   Guess that works even though it's not what happened.   EDM is on their second core with two playoffs to show since 2006.   COL hasn't been good since Sakic and Forsberg were still actually playing until recently.   CAR...missed 9 in a row.   Buffalo just missed 10.   Reality of a 32 team league.   On average over 3 decades you can expect to make the show 16 times. 

 

Thing is, top teams with no pools and little to recycle (context), really isn't much different then expansion teams under the old rules.  CLB.   ATL.   Back then there were even fewer team and it's pretty bad the first decade isn't it?    No Healtey or Hossa or Kovi either.   I'd say what was reasonable, and you might not like this, is parts of this core and the following one is how long it's going to take to build a contender.    Nobody is building one in 4 years anymore, not even TO with all their draft luck, or EDM with a decade of drafting close to number one. 

 

Edit:  In the 2000's Vancouver was 7th  in regular season wins.   Behind DET, NJ, OTT, COL, DAL  and SJ.   Take the peak Sedin teams into the equation, the down turns of some of these teams and we moved right up to the top with SJ 2000-2014.    Add to that the fact for ten years (four of Nonis draft and all six of Nonis), the only guys JB had to work with left was Hansen, Edler and Horvat to work with really plus Tanev of course.... That's worse then most expansion teams under the old rules.    This is just going to take as long as it does. And we should enjoy the WCE/Sedin eras memories ... paying the piper and close to done  thankfully.

Edited May 30, 2021 by IBatch

[Gawdzukes]

17 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

You know...ummm...you know...you know...you know...ummm your correct! Unreal how bad of a speaker he is after all these years he talks like a scared 12 year old doing a presentation in front of the class, or was that just me as a kid!? But I can put sentances together much better now in person, on here it is debateable/laziness on my part haha!

 

16 hours ago, gurn said:

Maybe you can, or maybe you just think you can.

However, have you ever had to speak into a camera/video knowing hundreds of thousands of people will see it? 

Till you have, don't be so quick to judge other people.

Canuckster86 making fun of someone's English. Hilarious, this kid can barely conjugate a sentence. CDC ay it's best. Twitter tell me Jim talk bad ... I make fun .... ha ha ha

[Gawdzukes]

18 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

Can you show me a person who doesn't make mistakes?

 

It seems that we're holding him to a standard that many of us likely can't meet.  People also can learn from mistakes, that's often how growth happens...by trial and error.  Not sure why we have to dwell on them, even if some have created current issues.  At some point, we do have to move on from "past" mistakes.  Even in court there are statutes of limitations.

 

"Until his previous mistakes are gone" isn't completely in his control.  Nor is how they panned out.

 

17 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He is not facing unheard of levels of criticism. He is facing what many other public figures face. 

 

You contradict yourself in this post which is exactly my point.

 

You are saying people can only criticize Benning in a way that you deem respectful enough. Why is what you think more important than what others think? Why do you get to decide what is anacceotable outlet for criticism? We have actual laws that do that and are theoretically there to take bias like yours out of the equation.

 

Do I like and appeove of some people's methods? No. But ai also respect their right to free speech.

No he's smarter than the world. We're all losers and wsa is the greatest.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Gawdzukes
GIVE CREDIT FOR THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE WORLD

[-DLC-]

15 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

So, if you've ever called Baumgartner an "idiot", or Green "a terrible coach", or Newell Brown "incompetent", and now draw the line at Benning criticism simply because it's expressed on a more heightened scale (evidence that fans believe he's the issue), go kick rocks or something lmfao.

 

You've just helped make the point of why it's different for me.  It's one thing to have an opinion and put it out there.  Even repeat it from time to time.  I HAVE commented on NB in an unflattering way.

 

It's another to reach the "heightened scale" that the JB stuff has hit.  Where it carries over into every conversation and becomes borderline obsessive because EVERYTHING goes back to that point.  The point where you can't have a conversation (see the Podkolizin threads) without it seeping in and eventually taking it over.

 

I'm not even in disagreement about the JB stuff but, for me, it's about acceptance.  At this point, for sure.  The attempts were made...the protests lodged and...he's still here.  So it's about a futile attempt and letting go at some point.  Accepting the things you cannot change.

 

Doesn't mean we can't still bring up his perceived failures and be critical of him.  Just that it gets to be draining when that's ALL some bring in to the conversation, no matter what the topic is.  That it overtakes everything (not you in particular, as I'm not really up to speed on your posts).

I'm SO tired of the negativity and have taken breaks recently to reset.  But come back and...we're still going around in circles like dogs chasing our tails.

 

Can we not have nice things (Podkolzin)?  Without the celebration of his signing turning into something negative?  There are so many JB/management threads that it doesn't have to become the topic of every conversation.

 

I'm not helping by buying into it...but I am so ready to move on/forward and look towards the next season with some optimism and renewed energy rather than being stuck in the same ol' "7 year" history.

[Dr. Crossbar]

14 hours ago, spook007 said:

Thanks... Spot on... Social media, where any clown is an expert... Trolling upon trolling, if they can have it their way...

[Alflives]

14 hours ago, spook007 said:

I'd say its slowly moving into trolling territory.... 

Who said the fishing industry was dying?  

Edited May 30, 2021 by Alflives

[combover]

13 hours ago, IBatch said:

What you wanted, and what was reasonable are two different things.   Just be happy the mistakes of previous management, or cloud or whatever you want to call what happened as a result of being a top team with no pool, all claused up is almost finally over.   The moment the Sedins signed their final deal the options shrunk to almost nothing but re-tool.    It worked for one year, two years after a presidents trophy we finished 7th overall.   The goalie drama was gone, eventually by 2017 Bieksa, Hansen and Burrows all waived, ALL contracts were honoured (and yes players were asked to waive and yes some players asked to waive as well).   By then a shadow of the returns we could of got. 

 

At least UFAs know they will be treated well here, their clauses will be honoured etc.   

 

SJ went through the same thing, it worked at better for them.   But now they will also be staring down a very long rebuild, with aging vets with NMC as well.   It happens.   Detroit went is also in full rebuild mode now too.  

 

The only thing i'm not certain of is are we really done rebuilding?   That's debatable.    You aren't the only one i know that wanted to let the Sedins walk (as a pair they were never getting traded, and as every Canuck fan knows neither of them wanted to go to a contender either).    That would have been the time to do something, and build around Kesler  .... who actually did want to leave.     

 

Pretty logical course (re-tool).   What else could they have done?   Tell all MG country club guys none of their clauses would be honoured? 

 

Edit:  Also wonder how the fan base would have related if the Sedins were allowed to walk without another deal....and nothing in return either. 

Mistakes aid the previous management carried in to what Jim did his first three season. Desperately trying to just make the playoff.

and nothings changed his goal is to be a mediocre  fringe wild card team just as it was 7 season ago.

The team needed a a rebuild as previous management said a year earlier. 
What he said he could achieve and what he’s achieved is nothing short of a miserable failure.
 

 

[Gawdzukes]

59 minutes ago, combover said:

Mistakes aid the previous management carried in to what Jim did his first three season. Desperately trying to just make the playoff.

and nothings changed his goal is to be a mediocre  fringe wild card team just as it was 7 season ago.

The team needed a a rebuild as previous management said a year earlier. 
What he said he could achieve and what he’s achieved is nothing short of a miserable failure.
 

 

 

 

 

This is you on your best day.

 

Revolting, go back to the sickening hole you came from. I don't care where it is, this rubbish is rubbish, you are slimy rubbish. Recede into your hole.

 

I wish the be gone!

Edited May 31, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[TheRussianRocket1994]

29 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

 

 

This is you on your best day.

 

Revolting, go back to the sickening hole you came from. I don't care where it is, this rubbish is rubbish, you are slimy rubbish. Recede into your hole.

 

I wish the be gone!

Bingo! Between him and a handful of others, it's too much and it's enough!! Negative and hating on the team 99.9% of the time and that extremely rare time they're not, it comes with a backhanded complement, so really it is. Some of them spend all day every day on here regurgitating the same negative agenda over & over & over. No matter how they try and spin it, a majority of us see through the bulls***!! I've said it a few times, it's not what they're doing, it's how they're doing it. Dislike and / or disagree with things the team does and have constructive criticism, then move on and support the team moving forward.....but no, just a negative / hateful agenda aimed at tearing down everything the team does. 

[Dazzle]

20 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

You know, the same exact things said here to defend Benning and re-frame his criticisms could be said of Green, Baumgartner, Brown, etc.  Just sayin'

 

And yes, there have been no banners and whatnot for the latter three but the same principles apply.  There is an unfortunate part of criticism that tends to seap into family and personal life, but, as noted by some here, that's the reality of working a high profile job as a sport executive.  For as much as you get lauded for your accomplishments when things go right, the voices of those against you will be just as loud, if not louder, when things go wrong.  That's the nature of a limelight performance-based job.  So, if you've ever called Baumgartner an "idiot", or Green "a terrible coach", or Newell Brown "incompetent", and now draw the line at Benning criticism simply because it's expressed on a more heightened scale (evidence that fans believe he's the issue), go kick rocks or something lmfao.

 

My criticisms of Benning have always been based on his ability to run this team, and have never had anything to do with him personally.  I've actually talked fondly of his character in the past, and I'll state it again now because he does come off as a really good, well mannered person.  But when it comes to running this team, I don't think he's fit for the position.  I feel that in his time here, he;s come up short, he's relied too much on excuses and blaming external factors, and there's a large sense of accountability missing from the lack of success we've seen.  I can't speak for others here but I'd imagine a few other people who want him out have their criticisms of him rooted in his performance, not him personally.

 

Hope this helps.

It's not so much that you criticize Benning. It's more how you deliberately ignore evidence that counters your 'points', and then you re-hash the same thing as where you started.

 

I honestly have zero problems with this post. Everyone is allowed to criticize/compliment whoever they want. The problem is when you start to see the bias slip in. Too many times have I seen your posts be consistently anti-Benning. Do you not have a different dimension to how you observe things?

Lmfao at your post the other day about Podkolzin. You say you're happy about the prospect, but then you HAD to include a shot of Benning in it. LOL. That is a blatant example of bias.