204CanucksFan Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Warhippy said: Now do the 1st round picks who completely flamed out too. Draft pedigree and placement goes out the window the second the draft is over. See any number of redraft threads for reference Should we also go through all the Hall of Famers drafted in rounds 2-9? Draft pedigree doesn't just go out the window because they were drafted. There are certain expectations that are still associated with draft position, at least until a players early 20's. So, like 3 more years for Klim. Players are 1st round picks, and top ten picks, for a reason and they bear certain expectations. Whether or not they live up to those expectations is another subject all together. But you can't expect someone viewed as a late 2nd pick to develop at the same pace as a consensus top 10 pick. Thats just asinine. Edited November 22, 2022 by 204CanucksFan Completing my thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said: Should we also go through all the Hall of Famers drafted in rounds 2-9? Draft pedigree doesn't just go out the window because they were drafted. There are certain expectations that are still associated with draft position, at least until a players early 20's. So, like 3 more years for Klim. Players are 1st round picks, and top ten picks, for a reason and they bear certain expectations. Whether or not they live up to those expectations is another subject all together. But you can't expect someone viewed as a late 2nd pick to develop at the same pace as a consensus top 10 pick. Thats just asinine. Sure you can. You absolutely can. For the exact same reasons. 2nd round has produced some of the best talent outside of that top 10 over the last 20 years. To try to use the metric you're using is sheer cherry picking. Once the draft is over anyone could be the best/better player. Just because you get drafted at 5th doesn't mean you'll be Jagr anymore than you'll be Juolevi. Once the draft is over it doesn't matter if a player is picked 5th or 150th. The expectation will always be for projected and tangible growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
204CanucksFan Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Sure you can. You absolutely can. For the exact same reasons. 2nd round has produced some of the best talent outside of that top 10 over the last 20 years. To try to use the metric you're using is sheer cherry picking. Once the draft is over anyone could be the best/better player. Just because you get drafted at 5th doesn't mean you'll be Jagr anymore than you'll be Juolevi. Once the draft is over it doesn't matter if a player is picked 5th or 150th. The expectation will always be for projected and tangible growth. So the expectations for Ryan Gropp should be the same as the expectations for Connor McDavid or even Timo Meier once the draft is over? Again, whether or not a player lives up to or exceeds or falls short of expectations is an entirely different subject that relies on many different factors. But the fact is players are drafted and ranked where the are for a reason and early in there post draft career there are expectations based on draft position. Yes, any player can exceed expectations just as easily as they can bust but simply saying a player "doesn't have it" because he isn't performing as well as players who are consensus top ten picks is ludicrous. Tage Thompson was drafted 26th OA and until last season, at age 24, he had 35 points in 145 GP. He also only managed 2 points in 16 games as 20 year old in the AHL. Was he a bust until then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 I understand many poster believe I'm negative. But then again I think many poster were born with pom poms in their hands. Klimovich was a second round pick, his chnace of making the NHL statically is 1 in 5 ie 20% Just like Lind, Woo etc. For some reason some have chosen him as some sort of poster boy for Canuck prospects, I don't know why. Rather than getting excited about real possibilties such as Karlsson heck Briesbois we keep picking at the scab. Klimovich may indeed get there at some point but in the mean time don't keep pumping the kids tire, it's likely only to bring you grief for yourself. Fans did it with Juolevi and Virtanen ( Div. 2 in the Swiss league ) you'd think people would learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wexcar Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 He was drafted out of the Belarusian league, so he is very raw and starting his development from a very low base. Canucks development team are taking it slowly with him as he is as close to a blank slate as a prospect can be so therefore healthy scratches are to be expected. He was drafted because of the raw potential. He may end up a NHL top6 PF or 4th line grinder or AHL/Euro league player, we will have to wait and see and not be too critical or put too much expectation yet. Because he is starting from such a low base I'm not worried about his playing time or stats for the first 3 years. They are clearly teaching him to think the game as well as play the game. How far he goes is up to him now, he is in a great position to succeed so hopefully he has the workrate, drive and intelligence to take advantage. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 9 hours ago, 73 Percent said: Nylander - 32 in 37 Alex Nylander 28 in 65 Puljujarvi 28 in 39 Chytil 31 in 46 Klimovich 18 in 62 Girgensons 17 in 61 The kid doesn't have it man. Those are all NHL players, so that's my point. You are being way too anxious when JR and Allvin have said over and over again that they want to overcook our prospects in the AHL. Jake Guenztel was 23, about to turn 24 when he made his NHL debut. Brian Rust was 22, turning 23 in the season when he made his NHL debut. Danila Klimovich is 19, turning 20 soon. So chill out for two more years before declaring him a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 5 hours ago, CanuckinEdm said: They should have let him play in the CHL last year and dominate while learning the small ice. They couldn't. Read the thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Longshot to make it. He needs an awful lot of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said: Longshot to make it. He needs an awful lot of development. Luckily he's stil a teenager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 7 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said: Luckily he's stil a teenager. Doesn’t matter. He is already a 2nd year pro. 19 so what? Obviously a washout. Do we have a ECHL affiliate? Send him there. Seriously you have to wonder about how some fans think? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 8 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said: Luckily he's stil a teenager. Yeah he's got lots of time to develop. Not forever though. I don't think it was a great pick but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckinEdm Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 21 hours ago, RomanP said: They couldn't. Read the thread... I'm not reading 93 pages care to enlighten me? not sure how he wasn't allowed to play in the CHL since he was drafted into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Boudrias said: Doesn’t matter. He is already a 2nd year pro. 19 so what? Obviously a washout. Do we have a ECHL affiliate? Send him there. Seriously you have to wonder about how some fans think? You're kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, CanuckinEdm said: I'm not reading 93 pages care to enlighten me? not sure how he wasn't allowed to play in the CHL since he was drafted into it. Belarussian hockey federation would not release his transfer papers if he was assigned to CHL last season because he is a member of Belarus National team and in their mind, CHL is too low of a league for him and they’d rather him play in KHL for Dynamo Minsk. Also, sometimes reading the full conversation helps with obtaining information, you know? Edited November 24, 2022 by RomanP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 12 hours ago, Western Red said: You're kidding. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 11:53 AM, 204CanucksFan said: So the expectations for Ryan Gropp should be the same as the expectations for Connor McDavid or even Timo Meier once the draft is over? Again, whether or not a player lives up to or exceeds or falls short of expectations is an entirely different subject that relies on many different factors. But the fact is players are drafted and ranked where the are for a reason and early in there post draft career there are expectations based on draft position. Yes, any player can exceed expectations just as easily as they can bust but simply saying a player "doesn't have it" because he isn't performing as well as players who are consensus top ten picks is ludicrous. Tage Thompson was drafted 26th OA and until last season, at age 24, he had 35 points in 145 GP. He also only managed 2 points in 16 games as 20 year old in the AHL. Was he a bust until then? Way to cherry pick. A "generational talent" like McDavid has that expectation. Much like Daigle. Nothing is promised though because McDavid could have been Daigle, Yakupov, Stefan as easily as he could have been and is McJesus. Bedard could easily just be RNH light. Once the draft is over, draft position means nothing. We had a 6th and 5th overall pick prove that to us. Klimovich will or won't make it. As an organization we have a significant history of cases on where and why it's more likely he won't. But at the same time he could also put it all together tomorrow. Whether you want to accept or admit that is immaterial to me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 2:00 PM, VancouverHabitant said: Those are all NHL players, so that's my point. You are being way too anxious when JR and Allvin have said over and over again that they want to overcook our prospects in the AHL. Jake Guenztel was 23, about to turn 24 when he made his NHL debut. Brian Rust was 22, turning 23 in the season when he made his NHL debut. Danila Klimovich is 19, turning 20 soon. So chill out for two more years before declaring him a bust. Absolutely. Young players that struggle on defence very quickly find themselves on the sidelines when they reach the NHL - cases in point this year: Podkolzin, Hoglander, Rathbone - though Hogs has found more icetime of late with his improved defensive efforts. Both Podkolzin and Rathbone look very unconfident now, as any mistake finds them watching the game from above. Meantime Boeser is -10, Miller is -10, and Pearson is -9 in many fewer games. Unfortunately, sending down vets getting big money is pretty much impossible. It is interesting to see how many people find it difficult to work hard when there are no adverse consequences. Then there are players who take pride in their work: Pettersson +8, Mikheyev +8 and Kuzmenko +4. These would be cases where +/- confirms direct observation of performance. Negative results can destroy young players, it behooves management to ensure that young players play well enough defensively to stay out of the nhl coach’s doghouse. Klimovich, Rathbone, Karlsson, and Lockwood are cases in point - give them the best possible chance to succeed. Brisebois, on the other hand, well experienced in the AHL, performed well when he came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250Integra Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 24 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: It's kind of sad when you look at this group and the only Canucks drafted players are Lockwood, Brisebois, Woo, Gatcomb, and Silovs lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, 250Integra said: It's kind of sad when you look at this group and the only Canucks drafted players are Lockwood, Brisebois, Woo, Gatcomb, and Silovs lol. Unfotuanately, it's worse than you think, they didn't even draft Gatcomb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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