Thoughts on Jimbo's moves and this off-season

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Nobody's ever brought that up media wise.   Offer sheeted (first trade) second one a hockey trade both teams got who they wanted.   This one his UFA deal.   Sure he's been around a little, doesn't mean he's got any "locker room issues".  Too bad we didn't get him.   Jovo.  Was he a locker room issue too? 

 

Here in Cgy, there's some "rumors" about him and his inability to fit in. 

I didn't want to go into a grey area so I'll leave it at that. 

I don't agree with it and don't think it's right but it is what it is.... 

Also if he's your future franchise D-man, you're gonna trade him in fear he's gonna get an offer sheet when all it took was 5.75?

I pray that someone offers Hughes 5.75 in a flat cap era... (so we can quickly match) 

 

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

There is a possibility we go with three scoring lines.   We have the guns for that now

Jeez I hope we don't put Miller at 3C. We just got 6 legitimate top 6 forwards (EP, BH, BB, JM, Hogs, Garland). I really don't want to see any of those guys in our bottom 6. We do have the cap space (around $2-3m depending on what EP and QH sign for) to bring in another scoring forward. 

[Viper007]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Here in Cgy, there's some "rumors" about him and his inability to fit in. 

I didn't want to go into a grey area so I'll leave it at that. 

I don't agree with it and don't think it's right but it is what it is.... 

Also if he's your future franchise D-man, you're gonna trade him in fear he's gonna get an offer sheet when all it took was 5.75?

I pray that someone offers Hughes 5.75 in a flat cap era... (so we can quickly match) 

 

QH can't be offer sheeted.

[CanucksJay]

50 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

QH can't be offer sheeted.

Yeah, I'm just saying, the decision by the Bruins to not offer a 5.75m (Hamilton) contract and trading him for a first and 2 2nds is pretty telling that they didn't see enough value in him. 

Also, you can call the flames hurricanes trade a hockey trade but the question still begs, why would the flames trade a future franchise D man? 

As for the Hurricanes, why couldn't or didn't they re-sign him?

He has yet to re-sign with the same team in his career. 

I honestly don't know what some people see in Hamilton to think he's actually worth 9m per season for the next 7 years. This is a bad deal. 

I just find it funny that a lot of them are the same ppl criticizing the OEL contract... 

 

[Timråfan]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

You need to pay more attention.   He was getting offer sheeted from Calgary, instead Boston made the trade to get a better pick.  In CAR he was part of a real hockey trade.    Now he's a UFA.   Hamilton is three years younger and has played a lot better hockey then AP has over the last four years.   Better then almost any D let alone RHDs.   I'd have loved to have him in fact started making posts suggesting a year ago we should consider saving money for Hamilton (especially over going after AP, sorry aside from being tall, his series against us wasn't that good).   What happens next we will have to wait and see.    He's about as young a UFA as you can hope for (again three years younger then AP in his walk year), and still has his peak prime waiting for another team to enjoy.   Top 5 x 5 producer....sure would be nice to have him on our team, instead we get OEL who's almost a project at this point and a LHD.   Oh well have to pay to play.   I'm surprised he went to NJ and so quickly too.   Seth Jones lol.  Suck it CHI 

A pity Benning had to offload some bad cap. Coyotes were the only target that could be pushed in the right direction.

[Timråfan]

7 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I didn't realize you don't know how to count. Let me get a crayon for you.

Dougie Hamilton

 

 

So OEL has 388 vs Hamilton's 341.
 

You're saying Hamilton is worth more? Don't quit your day job.

Well, I heard Gretzky has a few records.

You should probably pay him 20 mill and trade away Petey. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

Yeah, I'm just saying, the decision by the Bruins to not offer a 5.75m (Hamilton) contract and trading him for a first and 2 2nds is pretty telling that they didn't see enough value in him. 

Also, you can call the flames hurricanes trade a hockey trade but the question still begs, why would the flames trade a future franchise D man? 

As for the Hurricanes, why couldn't or didn't they re-sign him?

He has yet to re-sign with the same team in his career. 

I honestly don't know what some people see in Hamilton to think he's actually worth 9m per season for the next 7 years. This is a bad deal. 

I just find it funny that a lot of them are the same ppl criticizing the OEL contract... 

 

Yeah, the stats don't show a vastly superior player, especially against OEL. I think our points are: if he is OEL is overpaid, what does this make Hamilton?

 

I can see this looking very ugly for Jersey.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Here's a long one...

 

I've always been a fan of JB. He's always identified problems with this team and fixed it quickly within an off-season, based on the current state of the league (eg. who's winning Cups and who's not). He's done exactly the same this off-season.

 

Like it or not, he identified our needs:

- Clear cap 

- Re-sign the kids

- Change up the defence to become more defensive-minded

- Change our bottom-6, make it better defensively

- Get a top-6 scoring winger for Bo

 

What he's done:

- Traded out 20M of cap space

- Awaiting these RFA signings...but he's got cap to do it now

- Edler and Schmidt out, big loss, but OEL, Schenn and Poolman in, let's see how they perform now

- Beagle out, Sutter on a much cheaper contract, Dickinson in (hoping for a Ritchie signing or we see some Podz for extra size), cut all the useless rental waiver pickups

- Garland in for Bo

 

What did it cost JB in the end? Yes we lose an ageing Edler and Schmidt, both of whom sounded like they wanted to leave. Edler's probably good for 20 minutes a night, as is Schmidt, but they're both getting older and Schmidt just never really fit in here. 

 

Then the 9th overall pick. JB must have known that all the players he wanted would be gone by then and look who Arizona select - no one we would have wanted. It's a high cost but what better time to use it - in a draft where there's no real depth, no good players at the 9 spot and of course in a draft where none of these kids were even scouted properly, who knows how good they really are. Ballsy move but now's the time to do it.

 

Every off-season JB has changed this team to it's individual needs and he's constructed a nice team on paper. Look back to last season and everyone was saying the same before the start of the season - that we'd win or be top-3 in the division. So what's the disconnect? It's not the personnel JB has gotten in. 

 

Now it comes down to the coaches, coaching staff and players. We've still got some great individual performances (look at Brock's scoring for example, Demko's ability etc.). My main concern are these coaches now. JB waved his axe and changed the assistants a bit but this should be a warning shot for Green. If this team is not in a playoff position by Christmas I think we have to bite the bullet and change coaches. We haven't had a bonified NHL coach since AV, Willie was obviously a mess and Green has had some little success here and there, but his style and system of play was just abused last year by the fast forwards in our division. It worked well in the playoff bubble but then got exposed pretty quickly, he needs to adapt and adjust his style of play. I'm all for giving him a chance and him being a "player's coach", but if he's not bringing this decent team into a playoff spot with a proper off-season and training camp, he has to go and we have to look for a proper NHL coach with some real experience and stop giving try-outs to AHLers.

 

That being said, I think a proper off-season and playing against other teams out of our division will help this team get back on track.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Jeez I hope we don't put Miller at 3C. We just got 6 legitimate top 6 forwards (EP, BH, BB, JM, Hogs, Garland). I really don't want to see any of those guys in our bottom 6. We do have the cap space (around $2-3m depending on what EP and QH sign for) to bring in another scoring forward. 

Podz is also coming in, his ceiling is way higher then Hogs and you left out Pearson which gives us 8 guys to work with.   Look at how we did without EP last year, clawed our way back before covid so yes i do think we'd be better off trying 3 scoring lines rather then whatever you want to call what we had last year.   With Sutter back we could use the fourth line as a shutdown line, not our third and fourth lines adding almost zero offense yet again.   It would be hard to defend against and why teams like Vegas and TB are so successful.   EP should be able to carry a line with BB ... i'd put Hogs there. 

 

Pearson Horvat Garland    ?? Maybe Gads - Miller- Podz.   Gads was an animal in the AHL last year like to see him do the same against this leagues goalies, plays like Corey Perry in the crease.    Motte-Sutter-Dickinson or whatever.   

 

Edit: Dickinson is a C/W his face offs aren't very good...He could also play on Milers wing.    Podz is a wild card.   See him on the third line but he can score too.   We have good talent and depth in the top nine now, but any way you slice it there really isn't a line we should be "loading up on".     I for one won't at all be surprised to see Miller playing C to start the year. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, Dazzle said:

FWIW, Sportsnet gave Jimbo a D+, but gave Edmonton a B+, and Toronto got a C+...

SN declared us on of the three winners at the draft as well lol.   NHL.com listed the Canucks one of the six most improved teams after the draft and free agency combined - hard to argue against that.   We now have a real top 9. Capable of 3 scoring lines. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Here's a long one...

 

I've always been a fan of JB. He's always identified problems with this team and fixed it quickly within an off-season, based on the current state of the league (eg. who's winning Cups and who's not). He's done exactly the same this off-season.

 

Like it or not, he identified our needs:

- Clear cap 

- Re-sign the kids

- Change up the defence to become more defensive-minded

- Change our bottom-6, make it better defensively

- Get a top-6 scoring winger for Bo

 

What he's done:

- Traded out 20M of cap space

- Awaiting these RFA signings...but he's got cap to do it now

- Edler and Schmidt out, big loss, but OEL, Schenn and Poolman in, let's see how they perform now

- Beagle out, Sutter on a much cheaper contract, Dickinson in (hoping for a Ritchie signing or we see some Podz for extra size), cut all the useless rental waiver pickups

- Garland in for Bo

 

What did it cost JB in the end? Yes we lose an ageing Edler and Schmidt, both of whom sounded like they wanted to leave. Edler's probably good for 20 minutes a night, as is Schmidt, but they're both getting older and Schmidt just never really fit in here. 

 

Then the 9th overall pick. JB must have known that all the players he wanted would be gone by then and look who Arizona select - no one we would have wanted. It's a high cost but what better time to use it - in a draft where there's no real depth, no good players at the 9 spot and of course in a draft where none of these kids were even scouted properly, who knows how good they really are. Ballsy move but now's the time to do it.

 

Every off-season JB has changed this team to it's individual needs and he's constructed a nice team on paper. Look back to last season and everyone was saying the same before the start of the season - that we'd win or be top-3 in the division. So what's the disconnect? It's not the personnel JB has gotten in. 

 

Now it comes down to the coaches, coaching staff and players. We've still got some great individual performances (look at Brock's scoring for example, Demko's ability etc.). My main concern are these coaches now. JB waved his axe and changed the assistants a bit but this should be a warning shot for Green. If this team is not in a playoff position by Christmas I think we have to bite the bullet and change coaches. We haven't had a bonified NHL coach since AV, Willie was obviously a mess and Green has had some little success here and there, but his style and system of play was just abused last year by the fast forwards in our division. It worked well in the playoff bubble but then got exposed pretty quickly, he needs to adapt and adjust his style of play. I'm all for giving him a chance and him being a "player's coach", but if he's not bringing this decent team into a playoff spot with a proper off-season and training camp, he has to go and we have to look for a proper NHL coach with some real experience and stop giving try-outs to AHLers.

 

That being said, I think a proper off-season and playing against other teams out of our division will help this team get back on track.

I'm pretty sure a lot of us weren't saying we'd be a top three team last season, rather that most had us anywhere from 3-6.    Hockey Guy had us at 4 with the caveat we could be anywhere from 4-6.   It was a balanced, tough division.   The Pacific ... Kraken will be better then ARI. EDM and Vegas are pretty much locks for 1-2.   Then CAL/VAN/LA/Kraken will take the last two spots (assuming we even have a wild card spot.   ANA dead last - SJ maybe too. 

 

So far early days still, but NHL.com believes we've done enough to make the playoffs in the Pacific.   LA is the wild card i think.   CAL?  Who the heck knows about them.   I think if we roll three scoring lines and use our fourth as a shutdown line (instead of two sort of sh!tty lines last year) we have a chance of going  1-3.   

Edited July 31, 2021 by IBatch

[DownUndaCanuck]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm pretty sure a lot of us weren't saying we'd be a top three team last season, rather that most had us anywhere from 3-6.    Hockey Guy had us at 4 with the caveat we could be anywhere from 4-6.   It was a balanced, tough division.   The Pacific ... Kraken will be better then ARI. EDM and Vegas are pretty much locks for 1-2.   Then CAL/VAN/LA/Kraken will take the last two spots (assuming we even have a wild card spot.   ANA dead last - SJ maybe too. 

 

So far early days still, but NHL.com believes we've done enough to make the playoffs in the Pacific.   LA is the wild card i think.   CAL?  Who the heck knows about them.   I think if we roll three scoring lines and use our fourth as a shutdown line (instead of two sort of sh!tty lines last year) we have a chance of going  1-3.   

I agree, I think we should creep in. We're on the upswing whereas some teams are trending downwards. Edmonton and Vegas are peaking right now, although Vegas is experiencing a bit of a shakeup.

 

I doubt Calgary do too well without their captain and lots of question marks across their roster.

 

Anaheim and SJS will be trash but LA might be intriguing, they've still got Kopitar and Doughty playing at about 80% of their prime and added Danault and Edler to the mix. I think their goalie is going to cost them a spot ironically, because Quick basically won them a Cup.

 

Seattle look strong defensively and in goal but lack a 60+ point scorer so we'll see how they're deployed and coached.

 

It'll be a tight battle for the 3rd spot but as we know anything could happen.

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Timråfan said:

A pity Benning had to offload some bad cap. Coyotes were the only target that could be pushed in the right direction.

Yes a pity.   But we didn't need to do anything.   The deal he made with ARI ... i sure would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that one given the trouble they gave him going into free agency this year.   He paid well under market value pre flat cap ... 6.25 for Marleau pre covid was worth a 13th overall.   LE at 6 ... for a 9th call it a wash.   The rest amounted to more or less the same, should have also meant another unprotected first minimum plus the covid rate of at least a third for LE and third for AR/Beagle.  Two firsts, two thirds.    Then we also got Garland who we could have flipped for? A first of Coleman is worth one lol.  Probably more.   OEL is the fly in the ointment kind of.   We needed a long term Edler replacement.   So we filled a need.   It's the extra 1-2 million he will likely cost us that's the rub.   For sure worth it given we filled a need and basically differed the cap space over 5-6 years.    I'm sure the deal cost us way way way less then it would have last off season.    Draconian really.    Why experts declared us one of the winners at draft day. 

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I agree, I think we should creep in. We're on the upswing whereas some teams are trending downwards. Edmonton and Vegas are peaking right now, although Vegas is experiencing a bit of a shakeup.

 

I doubt Calgary do too well without their captain and lots of question marks across their roster.

 

Anaheim and SJS will be trash but LA might be intriguing, they've still got Kopitar and Doughty playing at about 80% of their prime and added Danault and Edler to the mix. I think their goalie is going to cost them a spot ironically, because Quick basically won them a Cup.

 

Seattle look strong defensively and in goal but lack a 60+ point scorer so we'll see how they're deployed and coached.

 

It'll be a tight battle for the 3rd spot but as we know anything could happen.

Pretty much how i see it.   I don't think Vegas has as strong a position to take the first spot losing MAF.   Won't be as strong in net.    Still guaranteed to take one of the top three spots - they are just that good.    Think CAL needs a re-set if they want to win with Markstrom/Tanev a down year might be the best medicine but also think they underachieved even losing Gio.   Depends on what they do with that cap space.    Time yet to make a small splash but the clock is ticking on them.    LA is intriguing.  Blake actually did a masterful job of re-working the team around Doughty and Kopitars swan song days, and those dividends should start paying off.   Maybe still a year away but see it coming.   ANA and SJ are screwed.    SJ has zero coming up and won't for a year or two from their pool.    They are where we were in 2015. Got a lot of time before we need to worry about them again.   

 

EDM is peaking as you said - hard not to see them in the top three.    Leaves us, CAL, LA, and Kraken to fight for the 3rd and wild card spots.    I like our odds really.     If we don't make the playoffs lol there will be some heads rolling. 

 

Edit:  If i had to predict a spot i'd say we end up 3, and LA fourth but it's going to be right.   I also wouldn't be shocked if we ended up first either.   I'm truly hoping we use Miller as the third C.   We could create three actual scoring lines.   I'm also sure Podz is going to make an impact.   At the very least on the PK and as a great third line scorer. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by IBatch

[DSVII]

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-offseason-grades-2021-ekman-larsson-poolman/

Draft grade so far from hockeywriters. I think that's pretty in line with with JB as done so far. 

 

19 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

I think that OEL may take a lot of pressure of Hughes THIS season and maybe part of next season but is there any doubt that at some point Hughes will be the #1 and OEL will be the #3?

 

One can only hope! I've always been a big OEL fan. If there's anyone who can have a bounceback in any place, it's here. Best case scenario, i'm hoping he has something similar to a William Karlsson type resurgence when he went from CBJ to Vegas

 

20 hours ago, Dazzle said:

The original context was Timrafa's false claim that Hamilton had more points than OEL (maybe this season) by a mile. Whether he meant this season or other seasons, he's wrong. 20 points isn't really a mile. It's better, granted, but Hamilton played on a superior team.

 

Based on that fallacious data, he then proceeded to argue that 2 mill difference was cheap for Hamilton's calibre.

Gotcha.

 

I agree with you in the sense I don't think Hamilton is worth 2 mil over OEL. Seen his game enough in Calgary. He's one of those big bodied D that doesn't play using that body. Pretty much an offensive PP guy which we have now in Hughes at cheaper (and more talent).

[Dazzle]

5 minutes ago, DSVII said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-offseason-grades-2021-ekman-larsson-poolman/

Draft grade so far from hockeywriters. I think that's pretty in line with with JB as done so far. 

 

 

One can only hope! I've always been a big OEL fan. If there's anyone who can have a bounceback in any place, it's here. Best case scenario, i'm hoping he has something similar to a William Karlsson type resurgence when he went from CBJ to Vegas

 

Gotcha.

 

I agree with you in the sense I don't think Hamilton is worth 2 mil over OEL. Seen his game enough in Calgary. He's one of those big bodied D that doesn't play using that body. Pretty much an offensive PP guy which we have now in Hughes at cheaper (and more talent).

OEL will be under the scrutiny, but as this trade has settled down and we've gotten a good glimpse of what our roster is gonna look like, I really think OEL will be a shining beacon of hope.

 

He's just got a lot of good things going for him:

 

1) A trade - change of scenery - particularly a place that he ACTUALLY wants to be in (vancouver/boston were two places that he'd SPECIFICALLY accept)

2) Sedins/support staff - management obviously believes in him, and I think this is gonna make a huge difference, mentally. Special mention: Brad Shaw - I think he's going to make OEL better.

3) The best roster he's played on, arguably. Simply passing to anyone on the top two lines will get you points. Also, his defensive partner is going to allow OEL play his offensive game - something he's actually good at.

4) Honestly, probably the passion of the game - fans here are passionate, perhaps to a fault. When the in-person stuff comes back, I can just imagine the energy that he gets from the fans here.
5) As he produces more points, which I am VERY high on him doing, I think he's gonna be really happy and he's never going to look back.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Dazzle

[RU SERIOUS]

On 7/30/2021 at 12:40 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

What makes this a deal like the Eriksson deal? How are they similar? 

 

To me, Eriksson's deal was horrible, no doubt. The true low point of all the FA signings. The contract was far too rich for a winger in decline, and (in my opinion) became truly horrible when it was clear that Eriksson was merely coasting to collect a paycheck. 

 

Ekman-Larsson, while a 30 year old defenseman, is still a very productive and capable player who's been playing in a very unproductive environment. The Coyotes are a mess and have been for some time. 

,,,We'll see how that deal looks in a couple of years when he's pushing 40!

[PhillipBlunt]

37 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

,,,We'll see how that deal looks in a couple of years when he's pushing 40!

Are you saying that a 30 year old will magically turn 40 in 2 years? If so, you’re insane. 

[Junkyard Dog]

A lot of questions going into next year. None that will be answered till the pick drops. Need some of these answers to work in our favour. 
 

Gonna be an interesting year. 

[BigTramFan]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

Podz is also coming in, his ceiling is way higher then Hogs and you left out Pearson which gives us 8 guys to work with.   Look at how we did without EP last year, clawed our way back before covid so yes i do think we'd be better off trying 3 scoring lines rather then whatever you want to call what we had last year.   With Sutter back we could use the fourth line as a shutdown line, not our third and fourth lines adding almost zero offense yet again.   It would be hard to defend against and why teams like Vegas and TB are so successful.   EP should be able to carry a line with BB ... i'd put Hogs there. 

I didn't forget about Pearson. He is not a top 6 forward IMO. He is a good two way player, but not someone you want on a scoring line.

 

I am in favour of having 3 scoring lines one day in the future, but I am not in favour of sacrificing our top 6 forward group to do so. I don't think we have the depth of 'top 6' forwards to ice 3 scoring lines. Putting Miller with two lesser wingers is a waste of his abilities, which I think are much better utilised on Petey's flank.

 

I would liek to see us stick with the Lotto Line and Hog-Horvat-Garland as our top 6 group.

 

VGK and TBL have a legit top 6 group, plus additional scoring forwards, so they are able to ice 3 scoring lines. But I think TBLs Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman line was much more a skilled grinding line. I wonder if we could build something like that around Dickinson-???-Podz. We would need a skilled high energy physical centerman in the same mold as Gourde to do that.

 

What I would like to do is bed-in the top 6 we have now and then try and develop/grow that 3rd line into a skilled grinding line that can score.

 

I like your idea of building a shutdown/matchup line around Sutter, but I wonder if he's gotten too slow to be that guy now? Perhaps a Pearson-Sutter-Motte line could be used to match up against opposition top lines, freeing up Bo and Petey with their scoring-focused lines. Then maybe the Dickinson-Podz line (with Highmore or MacEwen for now) could be used as a grinding/energy line and we look at add that skill next off season.