Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[DeNiro]

My problem with them holding out is them missing preseason.

 

Those games are the best time for Green to experiment with lines and pairings.

 

This season more than ever we need to make sure we have options there. Like can Podkolzin play with Petey? Can Miller center a line? Who does Garland have the best chemistry with? Is Hughes best partner Hamonic/Poolman/Schenn? Is OEL and Myers a good duo?
 

Those questions are hard to answer when two of your most important players are missing.

 

 

[Cromeslab]

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, combover said:

Lol

yeah the two superstars on the team that sell tickets the  franchise players aren’t in the line up for opening night and you don’t think it would be a nightmare for JB and the Canucks…. ok. 
It’s a win for the agent shows he won’t let cap mismanagement control what he’s willing to let his top tier clients take. 
people keep throwing That same contract  out there because it meets your hopes and expectations there a laundry list of worse players getting paid more and better players getting less. 
7 for three is a pipe dream so pay your best player less than a declining dman hahahahaha. 
8.5 is the min I see EP signing for and hughes most likely the same. 
 term Is my guess on the hold up ep probably wants 4 - 5 years max and that sucks for a gm that can’t figure out how to win or manage the cap.

I think hughes is three but it’s not going to be the bargain most hope for  (just my guess) 

 

once again we won’t win without them Jb job depends on winning lame idiotic excuses won’t save him anymore. 
 

 

 

Your mind has been tainted to turn everything into an anti-Benning argument.  Sorry, I thought we were going to have a reasonable conversation.  

 

Good luck out there! 

[MikeyD]

32 minutes ago, SergioMomesso said:

Yup. How many times were we down early in a game by one or two and Quinn pushes for offence and makes a mistake that ends up in our net? Not saying he was the only one to do that but it happened more often then not. 

I think it was Jfreshhockey on twitter that actually had stats that backed up that Hughes didn't get caught being offensive often actually. Most of his defensive lapses were actually in our own end that led to goals (obvious stat is obvious I know) but they were happening at a higher rate. Wish I could remember what the stat was, but Hughes doesn't get caught pushing for offensive zone time like some other players we've had in the past like Edler or Bieksa. He's actually rather safe when it comes to pursuing the puck in the attacking zone. 

 

As for pushing for offense in other ways, we hardly were ever outside our own end last season lol. Mind you Hughes ranked tops in the league for defenders for passing totals per game so if you're alluding to passing turnovers then you might be right but I don't recall him making an outrageous amount of Sbisa pizzas. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

Quinn obviously struggled without Tanev, which begs the question - how much is he really worth if so much of his play is dependent on his partner? His offence is obviously not in question and a large part of why he is likely to be getting close to 7Mill, but his defence last year left a lot to be desired.

 

The bottom line is that 16M in cap room should be enough for both EP and QH to get paid adequately. I think the fans know this as well, so QH, EP, and JP Barry will have to consider that if they are trying to nickel and dime the Canucks. At the end of the day, JP Barry doesn't win or lose with the Canucks but the players do.

[knucklehead91]

1 hour ago, combover said:

I’d agree if we were a winning team players take discounts but  rarely do players take discounts when the team been the laughing stock of the league. 
asking them to take less because the gm decided  he needed a bottom six Pearson and a bottom pair poolman when we have capable farm hands and knowing cheap depth is always available right now (September) 

 

petey and hughes are the players you build a team around , cornerstones, franchise faces,  players that fans pay to see. They should have been the top priority as soon as extending them was allowed.

Because a gm is clueless with the cap the superstars need to take less. Petey hughes 

i don’t blame them one bit for not signing yet with the info that we have. 
Over pay for ufas so rfas need to take the discount.
Jb has no choice they don’t sign he’ll be fired a PR nightmare especially if we don’t come out strong to start the season. 
I aready feel like if this team isn’t a winning team by mid November he’ll be gone and that’s with those two , good luck having a winning team with the two best players watching. 
market value it changes as the off-season goes just like trades now young superstar dmen are highly paid the gms around the league have set the 2021 standards like it or not. 
nhlpa takes issues to when guys take less it hurts the “ union” brothers. 

 

First off we were a winning team the prior season and we were not a laughing stock of the league. Thats Buffalol and Toronto. Buffalo has been in a perpetual rebuild. Toronto finds ways to choke harder than Riley Reid each time the post season comes around.

 

Tanner Pearson and Poolman are on pretty cheap deals. Would you rather pay more for a declining Toffoli? He is turning 30 within the next year and is on that inevitable downward slope. And instead of Poolman, how about we keep Tanev and pay for a guy whos had a lot of mileage and a tonnnnn of injuries… those injuries are gunna catch up with him. 
Or hey, I know, lets just throw some young Abby guys into the lineup and hope to not derail their development. Its worked for Edmonton the past 15 years, why cant it work for us? See the thing with cheap, is you get what you pay for. Cheap young guys for cheap results and a continual learning process as each game goes on. Pay a little extra, put an NHLer in there and let the AHLer develop and graduate to the NHL. Less growing pains at the NHL level, let the learning happen at an understandable pace. Dont force it. You’ll end up with countless Yakupovs. Look at Lafrienierre, J. Hughes, Kakko, Patrick… guys thrown into the NHL when they werent ready, its still early, but those early years of learning are important to a players success as an NHLer, they might take a few years to figure it out and go from being the guy expected to score goals, to grinding it out in the bottom 6 and ultimately failing in that role because they arent that type of player, they are a skill player not a grinder, but the team cant wait forever for a player to figure it out, they gotta try something else. 
 

 

Also if Benning was clueless with the cap, why would he let Tanev, Markstrom, Toffoli, Stetcher all go? Wouldnt he cluelessly re-sign Toffoli in a flat cap and then let Pearson walk the following season? He’d pay more for Toffoli and have less room? Or resign Tanev and not even consider Poolman for half the value? Or use a buyout on Holtby and find Halak as a cheaper option?  Benning is working his way around the flat cap and getting decent to good value for the players he is bringing in and the cap hit they come at.

 

You blame a GM for a flat cap that no one saw coming. Had the cap risen, we would have ZERO cap concerns and despite these “cap concerns” hes put together a pretty damn fun looking team along with enough cap space to get his 2 big RFAs inked. If he really f***ed it up, we would have to pull a rabbit out of our arse to sign BOTH.

 

Also, isnt EVERY UFA overpaid? You pay more because they ARE UFAs…. They can sign anywhere they want and take the best deal available. Not to mention even if its a fair deal today, in a few years they are no longer playing to the same level of the contract. They do slow down, they do age and they do decline, but their contract doesnt until its off the books.

[MikeyD]

16 minutes ago, combover said:

Lol

yeah the two superstars on the team that sell tickets the  franchise players aren’t in the line up for opening night and you don’t think it would be a nightmare for JB and the Canucks…. ok. 
It’s a win for the agent shows he won’t let cap mismanagement control what he’s willing to let his top tier clients take. 
people keep throwing That same contract  out there because it meets your hopes and expectations there a laundry list of worse players getting paid more and better players getting less. 
7 for three is a pipe dream so pay your best player less than a declining dman hahahahaha. 
8.5 is the min I see EP signing for and hughes most likely the same. 
 term Is my guess on the hold up ep probably wants 4 - 5 years max and that sucks for a gm that can’t figure out how to win or manage the cap.

I think hughes is three but it’s not going to be the bargain most hope for  (just my guess) 

 

once again we won’t win without them Jb job depends on winning lame idiotic excuses won’t save him anymore. 
 

 

 

You have to keep in mind, if a player is willing to do this and the gm lets the media know the contract that was offered that they refused to sign and if that offer was fair, those players look like team cancers right? And you know what happens to players with bad reputations? They make less money. 

 

It's a really stupid risk to take as an agent. There is about a zero chance the agent takes that risk. Majority of the time players hold out into the season it ends badly for the player. Tack that onto a media market like Vancouver the players would get absolutely eaten alive by the media. They'd be driven out of town. 

 

At the end of the day, Benning holds the most chips in this game of poker. Fans will tolerate a GM trying to make the team successful, but they won't tolerate a GM massively overpaying two kids for years to come and virtually eliminating any potential cup window for another handful of years. 

 

Already Petey and Quinn are being looked down upon by the fan base. Imagine the pressure if this proceeded into the regular season. No way any smart agent is going to do that to their client, let alone young client's still learning the game of hockey and have the potential to be superstars for the rest of their careers to save a couple million dollars. 

[4petesake]

25 minutes ago, gurn said:

 

[Gurn]

[MikeyD]

4 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

First off we were a winning team the prior season and we were not a laughing stock of the league. Thats Buffalol and Toronto. Buffalo has been in a perpetual rebuild. Toronto finds ways to choke harder than Riley Reid each time the post season comes around.

 

Tanner Pearson and Poolman are on pretty cheap deals. Would you rather pay more for a declining Toffoli? He is turning 30 within the next year and is on that inevitable downward slope. And instead of Poolman, how about we keep Tanev and pay for a guy whos had a lot of mileage and a tonnnnn of injuries… those injuries are gunna catch up with him. 
Or hey, I know, lets just throw some young Abby guys into the lineup and hope to not derail their development. Its worked for Edmonton the past 15 years, why cant it work for us? See the thing with cheap, is you get what you pay for. Cheap young guys for cheap results and a continual learning process as each game goes on. Pay a little extra, put an NHLer in there and let the AHLer develop and graduate to the NHL. Less growing pains at the NHL level, let the learning happen at an understandable pace. Dont force it. You’ll end up with countless Yakupovs. Look at Lafrienierre, J. Hughes, Kakko, Patrick… guys thrown into the NHL when they werent ready, its still early, but those early years of learning are important to a players success as an NHLer, they might take a few years to figure it out and go from being the guy expected to score goals, to grinding it out in the bottom 6 and ultimately failing in that role because they arent that type of player, they are a skill player not a grinder, but the team cant wait forever for a player to figure it out, they gotta try something else. 
 

 

Also if Benning was clueless with the cap, why would he let Tanev, Markstrom, Toffoli, Stetcher all go? Wouldnt he cluelessly re-sign Toffoli in a flat cap and then let Pearson walk the following season? He’d pay more for Toffoli and have less room? Or resign Tanev and not even consider Poolman for half the value? Or use a buyout on Holtby and find Halak as a cheaper option?  Benning is working his way around the flat cap and getting decent to good value for the players he is bringing in and the cap hit they come at.

 

You blame a GM for a flat cap that no one saw coming. Had the cap risen, we would have ZERO cap concerns and despite these “cap concerns” hes put together a pretty damn fun looking team along with enough cap space to get his 2 big RFAs inked. If he really f***ed it up, we would have to pull a rabbit out of our arse to sign BOTH.

 

Also, isnt EVERY UFA overpaid? You pay more because they ARE UFAs…. They can sign anywhere they want and take the best deal available. Not to mention even if its a fair deal today, in a few years they are no longer playing to the same level of the contract. They do slow down, they do age and they do decline, but their contract doesnt until its off the books.

They aren't ufa's. 

[knucklehead91]

41 minutes ago, tas said:

I stopped reading 2 paragraphs in because you're confusing your tenses.

 

I don't think the canucks are one of the worst teams in the league (neither does jack hughes). having said that. the canucks, factually, were one of the worst teams in the league last year, regardless of circumstances, and that's what jack hughes (and I) said. 

Well maybe you should have at least read the last paragraph. It was the most important one.

 

Unlucky season =/= bad team

 

You are merely going off standings. 

They are not and were not the worst team. They had the hardest obstacles to overcome, unlike any other team in the NHL. I think you are getting your lingo mixed up. Calling a team the worst team is saying they flat out sucked at hockey which is not the case.

[Cromeslab]

16 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

My problem with them holding out is them missing preseason.

 

Those games are the best time for Green to experiment with lines and pairings.

 

This season more than ever we need to make sure we have options there. Like can Podkolzin play with Petey? Can Miller center a line? Who does Garland have the best chemistry with? Is Hughes best partner Hamonic/Poolman/Schenn? Is OEL and Myers a good duo?
 

Those questions are hard to answer when two of your most important players are missing.

 

 

I agree Green& Co has a lot of options this camp would be good to have them both there for the full camp.

[tas]

5 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Well maybe you should have at least read the last paragraph. It was the most important one.

 

Unlucky season =/= bad team

 

You are merely going off standings. 

They are not and were not the worst team. They had the hardest obstacles to overcome, unlike any other team in the NHL. I think you are getting your lingo mixed up. Calling a team the worst team is saying they flat out sucked at hockey which is not the case.

who are you arguing against?

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, tas said:

do the reasons why they were bad matter in this context? unless it was largely hughes's fault, I say no. whether they were bad for all of the accurate reasons you've listed or because the team (other than quinn of course) was abducted by aliens and replaced with the 2009 oilers wearing disguises, either way, the team being bad made quinn look worse than he otherwise would have on a better team, which is all jack was saying. keep in mind he's a 20 year old jock who wasn't that bright to begin with, his word choice is going to leave people wanting more often than not, I suspect. 

 

deb, you know where I stand with this team. I've been defending them all offseason long, pointing out that I believe the bubble showing is a more accurate representation than this past season was. that also means I believe quinn's rookie year is a better representation than this past year. which places me firmly in jack's corner. 

 

again, it wasn't a criticism of the team, it was just an observation. 

Does it matter if the team was bad?  No.

 

Quinn's contract is based on his production so why drag the team into his personal negotiations then? 

 

And if Quinn was bad....because the team was.  The team was bad because....they were missing Petey.  Etc.  That's mostly my point...that those assessing the team to defend Quinn's lack of production also need to look at why the team maybe stumbled.  You can't ignore one while using the other.

I do agree on one thing though....I'll cut a 20 year old some slack here.  

 

I like it better when we're giffing.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, -Moose said:

No one is expecting QH and Petey to take a discount, we all just want a fair deal. I think what is puzzling is that we have 16+ million in cap space, which should be more than enough to sign a fair deal, so what is taking so long? Most likely the term and possibly LTIR fandangling

just because they have $16m doesn't mean JB thinks they are worth that much, combined.  He's also very aware of the precedent he will be setting with these contracts.  If he gives them the moon, what's Bo going to want?  Bo is currently a better, much more complete player than either of them.......if he gives Petey and Hughes $8m, Bo will be expecting at least that much.

[-DLC-]

These guys keep playing with us like this.  

Clickbait, but I can't help but hold my breath like I'm going through a tunnel.

[DeNiro]

On a side note sounds like Benning will bring in at least one player on a PTO. Says they have a real shot to make the team.

 

Demers? Vatanen? Staal? Galchenyuk?

[Ghostsof1915]

Staal please. 

[-DLC-]

Quote

Green hopeful RFAs Pettersson, Hughes re-join team soon

As training camp looms, restricted free agents Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes have yet to sign extensions with the Vancouver Canucks. However, Canucks head coach Travis Green remains hopeful that his two stars will re-join the team soon.

TSN.ca Staff

• • As NHL training camps are set to open, the Vancouver Canucks are still missing two of their most important players.

Centre Elias Pettersson and defenceman Quinn Hughes have yet to sign extensions with the team. Both restricted free agents are coming off their entry-level contracts and are two of just eight RFAs league-wide that have yet to re-sign with their clubs.

 

Canucks head coach Travis Green remains optimistic that Pettersson and Hughes will re-join the team soon.

“I think up until now I was saying that I’m really confident that they’re going to be in,” Green said on the latest episode of The Ray & Dregs Hockey Podcast. “And now we’re getting closer. I still have our teams on the board, original teams from camp, lineups for exhibition games.

“For a coach, it would be very disappointing if they’re not in. But yet I do understand that that’s part of the business nowadays.”

 

[tas]

54 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Quinn obviously struggled without Tanev, which begs the question - how much is he really worth if so much of his play is dependent on his partner? His offence is obviously not in question and a large part of why he is likely to be getting close to 7Mill, but his defence last year left a lot to be desired.

 

The bottom line is that 16M in cap room should be enough for both EP and QH to get paid adequately. I think the fans know this as well, so QH, EP, and JP Barry will have to consider that if they are trying to nickel and dime the Canucks. At the end of the day, JP Barry doesn't win or lose with the Canucks but the players do.

2nd year player 2nd year player 2nd year player.