[Report] Sharks claim Jonah Gadjovich off waivers

[Gollumpus]

3 minutes ago, Noseforthenet said:

Alright guys, if we're gonna talk about what ifs? How about what if Forsling wasn't traded. Could his development made it so we drafted Tkachuk instead of Juolevi?

Different animals. Juolevi (assuming he came as expected) is a defense first kind of d-man. Forsling is like another Rathbone, offense first.

 

Were Forsling still around, and playing as well as some believe he is (which he isn't, IMO) then a d-man would likely still be picked, but perhaps a RD, not a LD (at the time, I was partial to Sergachev). What we might have seen is that Rathbone wasn't picked, or if Rathbone developed as some believe he has already (which he hasn't), then maybe Forsling gets traded. Or, if Forsling were playing as some believe he would, maybe the Canucks don't draft Hughes....

 

                                          regards,  G.

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Gollumpus said:

Well, that's something. Four second assists in three games, and I'm not knocking second assists here, but not all second assists are created equally.

 

The first second assist was from an accidental blocked shot (Forsling looked like he was more interested in not getting hit). The puck bounced to a team mate, who passed the puck to another Panther, who lugged the puck up the ice and scored. 

 

The second second assist came from a pass to Forsling up on the point. He passed the puck to his defensive partner, who shot the puck on net, and then the goal was scored in close. The third second assist came in the same game, where it looks like Forsling touched the puck before another Panther took possession, and that guy passed said puck to Barkov who lugged the puck from the Panther's zone and scored (pretty much a solo effort).

 

The fourth second assist was on what turned out to be an empty net goal. The opposition winger was harassed by the Panthers' winger and the puck came loose to Forsling. The Lightning winger pursued the puck to Forsling who got rid of it "quickly" to Barkov, who lugged it down the ice and passed to Duclair who got the ENG. Initially, I thought that having a Forsling out there to protect the lead was a display of confidence by the Panther's coach, and then I looked again and saw that the score at that time as 3 - 1, not 3 - 2, and there was 2+ minutes left on the clock...

 

So, Forsling has four assists in three out of the six games he has played, which looks to be lucky more than due to crafty play on his part. 

 

Well, I believe that my point was that even though Forsling had potential, he still wasn't good enough (developed enough) to be on the roster, even when the defense mostly sucked. I was around at the time, and I believe I recall the situation fairly well.   And I'm not looking at it through 20/20 hindsight glasses.

 

Forsling's potential was moved for a guy who the team thought could help them now. Clendening was/is a RD, which the team sorta' kinda' needed right then, and Forsling was/'is a smaller, LD who looked to be a few years away from even being in the AHL I was okay with this trade. My only regret is that Clendening didn't work out as hoped. Forsling's NHL success, such as it is, doesn't change my opinion on this trade, then or now. Keeping and (hopefully) developing Forsling, rather than moving him for a player who might have helped the team then, makes no sense. 

 

I've previously outlined a timeline of what I believe may have happened with Forsling, were he not traded those six years ago. I don't see a lot of development in those six years, and his current "success" doesn't hold a lot of significance for me. I still believe that Forsling would have been traded (player or team initiated), or gone when free agency allowed. 

 

Depth is nice to have, but the depth guys (assuming they are any good) don't necessarily care to just sit around on their hands collecting a pay cheque. They want to play. If Forsling did develop here, why would he want to stick around being a "depth" guy?

 

Edler was around with his NTC up until 2018 - 19 (and two more years of NMC contract time after that). Are any of these guys better than Edler (assuming they become just "good" NHL d-men and not a Bobby Orr or Chara)? Some will say yes, others will say no. The point remains that very likely Edler has one of the three LD spots, Tryamkin would probably be the second LD and Hutton would likely be the 3LD (size, mobility, etc)... which leaves Forsling as a 7/8 d-man here, up until a couple of years ago. Assuming Forsling developed as many believe he should, he probably couldn't be moved to the AHL for playing time, or he's sitting in the press box, and he wouldn't want to go down anyways. Chances are, Forsling is traded while he is still an RFA... or he leaves when free agency allows.

 

And a point to consider, rolling back to the real world, has anyone ever thought that a guy like Clendening may have been the best offer the Canucks could get for Forsling? Sure, it's easy for us to say, "keep Forsling and develop him", but what does that do for the team right now? Not much.

 

Look at it from the current team's position, and them trading away a couple of the recent 1st round picks. If you are one of the young, core players and the team around you sucks, would you like management to develop guys so the team can win, eventually, or would you like them to make the team better now so you can win sooner? I'm going to go with those guys wanting to win sooner. If we continue with the current situation, I'm less concerned about 4th line players (and good ones help you win Cups), and more about the RD situation. Like back then, Forsling for a RD was a good idea (yes, it didn't work out as planned). If we compare then to now, might not trying to move Rathbone (even as part of a package) for a "good" RD not be a good idea? And while teammates may miss a guy like Rathbone, how many would volunteer to drive him to the airport if they were driving back with a guy like Chychrurn?

 

<getting hungry, and breakfast calls>

 

Anyhoo, I'm cutting this short to attend to more important matters (...bacon...). Keeping/developing Forsling so he could become another Brisbois (long time AHLer) isn't something that shakes me. He has had four years prior to landing with Florida, where he was okay, but nothing he did said that he was an NHL superstar, or even a good everyday player. I suspect that (as noted previously) Forsling would still be out of the Canucks' organization by at least a couple of years. Were he not, then say goodbye to Rathbone.

 

                                                         regards,  G.

 

(coffee, eggs, toast, bacon... but mostly bacon)

I think Forsling alone isn't a big deal. 

 

But put Forsling with but put him along with McCann, Dahlen, Hutton, Gaudette, Tryamkin, and all the picks he gave away there is a pattern of Benning's inability to acquire and keep assets.

 

And this has been a problem for Benning. He's an old school hockey guy but not a asset management guy. My opinion at least. 

 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

30 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I think Forsling alone isn't a big deal. 

 

But put Forsling with but put him along with McCann, Dahlen, Hutton, Gaudette, Tryamkin, and all the picks he gave away there is a pattern of Benning's inability to acquire and keep assets.

 

And this has been a problem for Benning. He's an old school hockey guy but not a asset management guy. My opinion at least. 

 

 

 

But the goal isn't to keep all of your assets, only the good ones. One of those players has established themselves, one has 5 NHL games and the rest are hot garbage. Not a big deal at all.

[iinatcc]

Just now, Gawdzukes said:

But the goal isn't to keep all of your assets, only the good ones. One of those players has established themselves, one has 5 NHL games and the rest are hot garbage. Not a big deal at all.

Exactly you want to get as much chances of these prospects as much as possible. Not all will pan out but a combination of developing the ones you have and keeping and acquiring draft picks increases those chances. 

 

And even if you can't keep all your assets you can trade them and get good value back.

 

Some examples Islanders traded away Griffin Reinhart for a 1st round pick that landed them Barzal. That's asset management. 

[Westcoastcanucks777]

Grr Jonah got a point Iam filled with rage!!

[Gollumpus]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

Exactly you want to get as much chances of these prospects as much as possible. Not all will pan out but a combination of developing the ones you have and keeping and acquiring draft picks increases those chances. 

 

And even if you can't keep all your assets you can trade them and get good value back.

 

Some examples Islanders traded away Griffin Reinhart for a 1st round pick that landed them Barzal. That's asset management. 

  

So, are any of the guys you previously noted (see below) worth a 1st, or even a significant return at the time they were traded? Remember, what we may think of a prospect isn't necessarily shared by GMs around the league, and what they are now wasn't any kind of certainty back then.

 

 

54 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I think Forsling alone isn't a big deal. 

 

But put Forsling with but put him along with McCann, Dahlen, Hutton, Gaudette, Tryamkin, and all the picks he gave away there is a pattern of Benning's inability to acquire and keep assets.

 

And this has been a problem for Benning. He's an old school hockey guy but not a asset management guy. My opinion at least. 

None of these guys really bump my needle, except perhaps McCann, and I'm okay with him not being here.

 

- McCann is sorta' doing well (good for him), and while the Gudbranson trade didn't work out as intended, I'm quite happy with Pearson.

 

- Dahlen wasn't happy here (for whatever reasons), so he was gone and there wasn't really any available return for him. (Benning: "Hey, anyone want to give me something for this prospect, who can't score and doesn't seem to be happy being in the NHL? Anybody? ...anyone? Hello?")

 

- Hutton seems to be a heck of a nice guy, but he wasn't that great of a defender. He wasn't given a new contract by the Canucks, and he was then on three different teams (Kings, Ducks, Leafs) in the two years following his tenure with the Canucks. As far as I know, he isn't in the NHL, or anywhere else. But good luck to him. What kind of return do you believe he would have been worth? Is another team going to make any kind of offer if you aren't going to sign him (ie. they might get him as a UFA)? If you're the Canucks, and you don't want him back, are you going to risk signing him just for the purpose of trading him?

 

- Gaudette is another guy who is great in the minds of some fans, but if you stand back and look at him, he's not that great. College points don't equal NHL points, and potential is just that, potential. Perhaps it's because, as a winger, he's not good enough for extended periods of time in the top-6, and his style of play isn't that good for bottom-6. As a center, yeesh....

 

- Tryamkin didn't want to be here for the TOI and the money being offered (and the Canucks were high on the cap)..

Benning: "Hey, Nik, get in the car."

Tryamkin: "Net".

If he's happy to be in Russia, then cool, hope he does well. I think fan estimation of his potential is perhaps a touch high. I do regret that the team didn't bite the bullet and just trade his butt for something, anything/anyone they could get for him so he would be another team's headache. What do folks think the Canucks could get for him? Something less than a 5th round pick, in a year where Tryamkiin was up for a new contract in Russia would be my thoughts. If the team got more than that, then it's a win. If Tryamkin came back to the NHL and played well, then cool. The Canucks whatever the assets were in trade for a guy who wasn't going to play here.

 

If you wanted to make the list more impressive by adding more names, you could have included:

 

- Madden (still with the Kings AHL team)

 

- Jordan Subban (in the ECHL)

 

- Goldobin (been in Russia for the last few years)

 

- Shinkaruk (managed 15 NHL games - currently in Russia - the guy he was traded for got more goals in one season with the Canucks than Shinkaruk got in his entire NHL career, and I do mean Granlund's second season here where he got a total of 8 goals)

 

- Jensen for Etem (a win for the Canucks. For what it's worth, the Canucks got more games played and more points from Etem)

 

- Bonino (w/Clendening and a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd - unfortunate due to injury issues for Sutter, which wouldn't be bad for a 2/3C). Some people seem to suggest that Bonino was the reason that Pittsburgh won two Cups when he was there. Maybe, but an argument could be made that Sutter would have played as well (or better). Pittsburgh "dumped" Sutter for contract reasons. Did they allow Bonino to walk for contract reasons? Yup. Bonino got $4.1 million per year for four years (with Nashville). after he left Pittsburgh. He's currently getting $2 million and change with the Sharks. 

 

- Kassian was unfortunate, in that he had "issues" which made keeping him untenable. I still like the guy. He got moved to make breathing room for everyone else on the team and it was unknown if he would pull out of the nose dive he was in (even with team support).

 

- Eddie Lack, another nice guy. Played well while he was here. Got caught in the numbers game of too many good alternatives the Canucks had for goaltender.

 

So, maybe McCann and maybe Bonino. Anyone I've forgotten, or that anyone believes the Canucks could/should have gotten anything significant for the guys on that list?

 

                                                      regards,  G.

[Gollumpus]

39 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said:

Grr Jonah got a point Iam filled with rage!!

Meh, cheer for him. It wasn't against the Canucks, except in that it helped the Sharks get some points. Maybe he'll be back with the Canucks at point, and we can think of this time with San Jose as a glorified development period in the AHL.

 

                                    regards,  G.

[Me_]

1 hour ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said:

Grr Jonah got a point Iam filled with rage!!

One whole assist! Lööääd wattawegonnado!

 

Heeeeeyyyy How ‘bout that Garland guy…

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Me_

[Phat Fingers]

On 10/26/2021 at 4:19 PM, iinatcc said:

I think Forsling alone isn't a big deal. 

 

But put Forsling with but put him along with McCann, Dahlen, Hutton, Gaudette, Tryamkin, and all the picks he gave away there is a pattern of Benning's inability to acquire and keep assets.

 

And this has been a problem for Benning. He's an old school hockey guy but not a asset management guy. My opinion at least. 

 

 

 

Not sure, but it looks like Benning is really good at acquiring assets at the draft and pro am scouting at the NCAA and beyond.  His use off said assets in trades was very questionable at times, the clubs development of some players was a mess, but that well predates Benning.  What doesn’t is his rate of success in drafting players that make the NHL.  
 

You can tell McCann is going to be a thorn in our side with the Kraken for a while.  It is what it is… 

 

but Benning has been able to acquire talent like a guy counting cards and not getting caught… it’s what he does afterwards leaving the casino with his winnings that has messed things up.  Mostly.  Jake and OJ… can’t win them all.  

[Phat Fingers]

Just now, Phat Fingers said:

Not sure, but it looks like Benning is really good at acquiring assets at the draft and pro am scouting at the NCAA and beyond.  His use off said assets in trades was very questionable at times, the clubs development of some players was a mess, but that well predates Benning.  What doesn’t is his rate of success in drafting players that make the NHL.  
 

You can tell McCann is going to be a thorn in our side with the Kraken for a while.  It is what it is… 

 

but Benning has been able to acquire talent like a guy counting cards and not getting caught… it’s what he does afterwards leaving the casino with his winnings that has messed things up.  Mostly.  Jake and OJ… can’t win them all.  

Where does Demko go in the redraft of 2014.  He is going to save us and is home grown.  When was the last time we had a home grown goalie that was hands down the starter, and really good at the same time… like never ever… 

[Phat Fingers]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:52 PM, Gollumpus said:

  

So, are any of the guys you previously noted (see below) worth a 1st, or even a significant return at the time they were traded? Remember, what we may think of a prospect isn't necessarily shared by GMs around the league, and what they are now wasn't any kind of certainty back then.

 

 

None of these guys really bump my needle, except perhaps McCann, and I'm okay with him not being here.

 

- McCann is sorta' doing well (good for him), and while the Gudbranson trade didn't work out as intended, I'm quite happy with Pearson.

 

- Dahlen wasn't happy here (for whatever reasons), so he was gone and there wasn't really any available return for him. (Benning: "Hey, anyone want to give me something for this prospect, who can't score and doesn't seem to be happy being in the NHL? Anybody? ...anyone? Hello?")

 

- Hutton seems to be a heck of a nice guy, but he wasn't that great of a defender. He wasn't given a new contract by the Canucks, and he was then on three different teams (Kings, Ducks, Leafs) in the two years following his tenure with the Canucks. As far as I know, he isn't in the NHL, or anywhere else. But good luck to him. What kind of return do you believe he would have been worth? Is another team going to make any kind of offer if you aren't going to sign him (ie. they might get him as a UFA)? If you're the Canucks, and you don't want him back, are you going to risk signing him just for the purpose of trading him?

 

- Gaudette is another guy who is great in the minds of some fans, but if you stand back and look at him, he's not that great. College points don't equal NHL points, and potential is just that, potential. Perhaps it's because, as a winger, he's not good enough for extended periods of time in the top-6, and his style of play isn't that good for bottom-6. As a center, yeesh....

 

- Tryamkin didn't want to be here for the TOI and the money being offered (and the Canucks were high on the cap)..

Benning: "Hey, Nik, get in the car."

Tryamkin: "Net".

If he's happy to be in Russia, then cool, hope he does well. I think fan estimation of his potential is perhaps a touch high. I do regret that the team didn't bite the bullet and just trade his butt for something, anything/anyone they could get for him so he would be another team's headache. What do folks think the Canucks could get for him? Something less than a 5th round pick, in a year where Tryamkiin was up for a new contract in Russia would be my thoughts. If the team got more than that, then it's a win. If Tryamkin came back to the NHL and played well, then cool. The Canucks whatever the assets were in trade for a guy who wasn't going to play here.

 

If you wanted to make the list more impressive by adding more names, you could have included:

 

- Madden (still with the Kings AHL team)

 

- Jordan Subban (in the ECHL)

 

- Goldobin (been in Russia for the last few years)

 

- Shinkaruk (managed 15 NHL games - currently in Russia - the guy he was traded for got more goals in one season with the Canucks than Shinkaruk got in his entire NHL career, and I do mean Granlund's second season here where he got a total of 8 goals)

 

- Jensen for Etem (a win for the Canucks. For what it's worth, the Canucks got more games played and more points from Etem)

 

- Bonino (w/Clendening and a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd - unfortunate due to injury issues for Sutter, which wouldn't be bad for a 2/3C). Some people seem to suggest that Bonino was the reason that Pittsburgh won two Cups when he was there. Maybe, but an argument could be made that Sutter would have played as well (or better). Pittsburgh "dumped" Sutter for contract reasons. Did they allow Bonino to walk for contract reasons? Yup. Bonino got $4.1 million per year for four years (with Nashville). after he left Pittsburgh. He's currently getting $2 million and change with the Sharks. 

 

- Kassian was unfortunate, in that he had "issues" which made keeping him untenable. I still like the guy. He got moved to make breathing room for everyone else on the team and it was unknown if he would pull out of the nose dive he was in (even with team support).

 

- Eddie Lack, another nice guy. Played well while he was here. Got caught in the numbers game of too many good alternatives the Canucks had for goaltender.

 

So, maybe McCann and maybe Bonino. Anyone I've forgotten, or that anyone believes the Canucks could/should have gotten anything significant for the guys on that list?

 

                                                      regards,  G.

G,  he didn’t do bad of OJ… a roster player of use… 

 

looking at the list of talent on the roster for Benning to inherit… what an embarrassment as compared to today, Klimovich is better than any of that lot, as a second rounder.  
 

had Benning not been able to acquire assets thru the draft… what would be on the ice today, Bo Horvat and the plyons… 

[Gollumpus]

31 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

G,  he didn’t do bad of OJ… a roster player of use… 

 

looking at the list of talent on the roster for Benning to inherit… what an embarrassment as compared to today, Klimovich is better than any of that lot, as a second rounder.  
 

had Benning not been able to acquire assets thru the draft… what would be on the ice today, Bo Horvat and the plyons… 

Quick, copyright that name for a rock band...

 

                                 regards,  G.

[VegasCanuck]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:19 PM, iinatcc said:

I think Forsling alone isn't a big deal. 

 

But put Forsling with but put him along with McCann, Dahlen, Hutton, Gaudette, Tryamkin, and all the picks he gave away there is a pattern of Benning's inability to acquire and keep assets.

 

And this has been a problem for Benning. He's an old school hockey guy but not a asset management guy. My opinion at least. 

 

 

 

All teams lose guys, all teams let guys walk sometimes, all teams make decisions based on what they think is best for the immediate and the future.

 

- McCann trade was a gamble, didn't work out as well as everyone hoped, I'm sure Benning would like to have a do over on it

- Forseling, I think they were trying to get someone who was closer to being NHL ready when they made that trade. If you look at his career so far, until last season, he looked like he was going to wash out of the league. Florida took a chance on him at league minimum salary and it paid off, he's 25 now and really, finally coming into his own. Meanwhile, remember how much everyone on this board was beating up on Juolevi for the last 3 years? He's only 23 and people have been slamming him as a washout since he was 20.

- Dahlen, they were having trouble with his attitude, if I understand it correctly, wanted to be given time instead of earning it.

- Hutton is a bad example, had a number of deficiencies in his game, that they thought he would grow out of. If you look at the fact that he's been on a different team every year for the past 3 years, I'd say we made the right decision, not to qualify him coming off a 2.8 million contract.

- Gaudette was largely speculated to be the one who made the whole team sick by not properly respecting the Covid protocols. He didn't really have enough horsepower in his game to justify full time top 6, but didn't want to settle into a 3rd line role. Sometimes, you just have to move on from a player, Highmore has been an effective bottom 6 player for us, as much as fans would hate to admit that. The fact that Highmore is in the lineup every night for us, while Gaudette, is still struggling to crack the lineup on a regular basis on a team that still hasn't won a game this year, tells me that we made the right choice, and that other GM's recognized issues with Gaudette and that's probably why we traded with Chicago.

- Tryamkin sat in a pre draft interview and told the team that it was his priority to play in the NHL. I don't think his wife liked it here, and I feel like since he left, he's used the team to manipulate his contract negotiating position in Russia. Was really hoping he would come back, but if he's happier in Russia, then he's never going to be fully effective here.

 

Again, ALL teams let guys walk, or lose guys to free agency or waivers. Look at NY with Tavares.

[mll]

The Sharks have several players in Covid protocol - at F Timo Meier, Kevin Labanc and Matt Nieto + 4 Ds.  Gadjovich was a scratch.  

 

Peng believes his time could be running short after he was replaced by Nick Merkley in the lineup and will need to make more of an impact soon.  He played 3 games with an average TOI of 10:16.  Has 2 shots on net and 9 hits.  Had a primary assist on a give-and-go in his 1st game and fought Romanov.  

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by mll

[73 Percent]

7 hours ago, mll said:

The Sharks have several players in Covid protocol - at F Timo Meier, Kevin Labanc and Matt Nieto + 4 Ds.  Gadjovich was a scratch.  

 

Peng believes his time could be running short after he was replaced by Nick Merkley in the lineup and will need to make more of an impact soon.  He played 3 games with an average TOI of 10:16.  Has 2 shots on net and 9 hits.  Had a primary assist on a give-and-go in his 1st game and fought Romanov.  

 

@Ray_Cathode the other hard to play against guy you were referring to.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:02 PM, Me_ said:

One whole assist! Lööääd wattawegonnado!

 

Heeeeeyyyy How ‘bout that Garland guy…

 

Garlunds got an assist too?!

[wai_lai416]

On 10/28/2021 at 9:26 AM, Phat Fingers said:

Where does Demko go in the redraft of 2014.  He is going to save us and is home grown.  When was the last time we had a home grown goalie that was hands down the starter, and really good at the same time… like never ever… 

schneider?

[Gawdzukes]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:59 PM, mll said:

The Sharks have several players in Covid protocol - at F Timo Meier, Kevin Labanc and Matt Nieto + 4 Ds.  Gadjovich was a scratch.  

 

Peng believes his time could be running short after he was replaced by Nick Merkley in the lineup and will need to make more of an impact soon.  He played 3 games with an average TOI of 10:16.  Has 2 shots on net and 9 hits.  Had a primary assist on a give-and-go in his 1st game and fought Romanov.  

 

lol, how did we give up the next Neely? This guy is going to be a star lol @cdc

[ShawnAntoski]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

lol, how did we give up the next Neely? This guy is going to be a star lol @cdc

Is he any better than an even slower ChaseOn ?

[King Heffy]

On 11/2/2021 at 10:59 PM, mll said:

The Sharks have several players in Covid protocol - at F Timo Meier, Kevin Labanc and Matt Nieto + 4 Ds.  Gadjovich was a scratch.  

 

Peng believes his time could be running short after he was replaced by Nick Merkley in the lineup and will need to make more of an impact soon.  He played 3 games with an average TOI of 10:16.  Has 2 shots on net and 9 hits.  Had a primary assist on a give-and-go in his 1st game and fought Romanov.  

 

We gt first crack at him if he's waived, right?  Pick him up and fire the idiot who suggested waiving him in the name of Plug Love.