Popular Post Bobby James Posted May 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2022 Bo is a great 2C and I'd be happy with a long extension. 6 million per year x 8 years with a MNTC. Likely a little less then he could get in free agency per year, but lots of term and security. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Why is BO a 50 point Centre when he been averaging between 60-62 points over an 82 game schedule for the last 4 years? fair point I didn't look at gp...even then. it doesn't change the cohort I mentioned. Go look at the list of players in the 7 mil range I provided Bo is not better than any of them, and a number are below 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Bo locked in as a 2C is fine, Rutherford's had some really positive things to say about Pettersson so I'd imagine he'll get rope to run with as a 1C going forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 45 minutes ago, NucknAsia said: fair point I didn't look at gp...even then. it doesn't change the cohort I mentioned. Go look at the list of players in the 7 mil range I provided Bo is not better than any of them, and a number are below 7 Kevin Hayes is over $7 million. He’s never even broken 50 points, nevermind 60. Anders Lee is another player at $7 million who has worse numbers than BO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Bobby James said: Bo is a great 2C and I'd be happy with a long extension. 6 million per year x 8 years with a MNTC. Likely a little less then he could get in free agency per year, but lots of term and security. You’re kidding if you think BO will get less than $6 million as a UFA. Strong 2 way centre who is great on faceoffs and has proven playoff success. He’s a 2C on most teams. As a UFA he’s easily getting $6.5 million or more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: You’re kidding if you think BO will get less than $6 million as a UFA. Strong 2 way centre who is great on faceoffs and has proven playoff success. He’s a 2C on most teams. As a UFA he’s easily getting $6.5 million or more. Yup. Our way (advantage) to lower Bo’s cap is to go the extra year. So if the total contract is 50 million, make the term 8 years. 6.25 annual cap. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Yup. Our way (advantage) to lower Bo’s cap is to go the extra year. So if the total contract is 50 million, make the term 8 years. 6.25 annual cap. Yes, similar to to RNH who signed an 8 year deal with Edmonton. BO will need to do the same thing in order to lower his AAV. I would say your numbers are pretty accurate. On an 8 year deal I can see him taking $6.25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Kevin Hayes is over $7 million. He’s never even broken 50 points, nevermind 60. Anders Lee is another player at $7 million who has worse numbers than BO. Cool you found 2 overpaid players as your argument? How about Barzal Pastrnak Kyle Connor Hischier Nylander Coutourier Bo does not belong in that group sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elias Pettersson Posted May 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, NucknAsia said: Cool you found 2 overpaid players as your argument? How about Barzal Pastrnak Kyle Connor Hischier Nylander Coutourier Bo does not belong in that group sorry Barzal is still on his second contract and is an RFA next year. Are you suggesting he is not getting a raise from his current $7 million deal? Pastrnak is also still on his 2nd contract. You don’t think he’s getting $9 million+ next summer as a UFA? Hischier is also on his 2nd contract. He decided to go long term, not like Barzal. Nylander signed his contract 4 years ago, again his second contract. Kyle Connor did the same thing as Hischier, signed a long term deal on his 2nd contract. Couturier signed an 8 year deal as a 29 year old. So he’s gonna be overpaid well before his contract is up. Not sure why you are comparing Horvat’s next deal when he will be a UFA versus a bunch of guys who are still on their 2nd contracts. If Horvat hits free agency he will get a 7x7 deal from somebody. Doesn’t matter whether he’s worth it or not. UFA’s are always overpaid. Comparing a bunch of guys who signed as an RFA to Horvat who will become a UFA doesn’t really make a lot of sense. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gollumpus Posted May 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2022 29 minutes ago, NucknAsia said: Cool you found 2 overpaid players as your argument? How about Barzal Pastrnak Kyle Connor Hischier Nylander Coutourier Bo does not belong in that group sorry 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Barzal is still on his second contract and is an RFA next year. Are you suggesting he is not getting a raise from his current $7 million deal? Pastrnak is also still on his 2nd contract. You don’t think he’s getting $9 million+ next summer as a UFA? Hischier is also on his 2nd contract. He decided to go long term, not like Barzal. Nylander signed his contract 4 years ago, again his second contract. Kyle Connor did the same thing as Hischier, signed a long term deal on his 2nd contract. Couturier signed an 8 year deal as a 29 year old. So he’s gonna be overpaid well before his contract is up. Not sure why you are comparing Horvat’s next deal when he will be a UFA versus a bunch of guys who are still on their 2nd contracts. If Horvat hits free agency he will get a 7x7 deal from somebody. Doesn’t matter whether he’s worth it or not. UFA’s are always overpaid. Comparing a bunch of guys who signed as an RFA to Horvat who will become a UFA doesn’t really make a lot of sense. I'm curious about how some people seem to believe that the team could "easily" replace Horvat's points, TOI, face off%, physical play and whatever else he brings to the team, for less money (or maybe somewhere around the same). There isn't a prospect in the system who looks like he could do it. Maybe some hope that the 1st round pick this year will be a phenom.... What sort of assets would have to be surrendered in a trade to get a Horvat replacement at a desirable cap hit? If another team has a guy like that, wouldn't they want a lot for him, let alone why would they want to trade him in the first place? If Miller is traded (as some hope) then who becomes the 2C (let alone the 3C)? If Miller is kept and Horvat is traded, then who becomes the 3C? It is commented that teams don't have 3Cs being paid whatever Horvat is currently getting, or might get in his next contract. But how many teams would have a 3C who can get 50+ pts and do whatever else Horvat does? Some talk about wanting "three scoring lines", but they want it for cheap. Having Horvat as the 3C makes the three scoring lines option realistic. And looking at some of the comparable players/contracts from Cap Friendly, aside from guys like Wehhberg, letting Horvat walk or trading him, and trying to replace him with a UFA would result in a contract at amounts equal to, or greater to the amount that some are balking at for Horvat... and with little to no promise of greater results than if the Canucks just signed Horvat in the first place. I'm currently in the camp where I see Horvat's value being high to the Canucks, but to replace that value with another guy will cost the team in some significant way. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but folks are going to have to come up with a pretty good argument. regards, G. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aGENT Posted May 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Barzal is still on his second contract and is an RFA next year. Are you suggesting he is not getting a raise from his current $7 million deal? Pastrnak is also still on his 2nd contract. You don’t think he’s getting $9 million+ next summer as a UFA? Hischier is also on his 2nd contract. He decided to go long term, not like Barzal. Nylander signed his contract 4 years ago, again his second contract. Kyle Connor did the same thing as Hischier, signed a long term deal on his 2nd contract. Couturier signed an 8 year deal as a 29 year old. So he’s gonna be overpaid well before his contract is up. Not sure why you are comparing Horvat’s next deal when he will be a UFA versus a bunch of guys who are still on their 2nd contracts. If Horvat hits free agency he will get a 7x7 deal from somebody. Doesn’t matter whether he’s worth it or not. UFA’s are always overpaid. Comparing a bunch of guys who signed as an RFA to Horvat who will become a UFA doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Welcome to the club of arguing with people who don't understand the difference between RFA and UFA contracts. 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) . Edited May 28, 2022 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Gollumpus said: I'm curious about how some people seem to believe that the team could "easily" replace Horvat's points, TOI, face off%, physical play and whatever else he brings to the team, for less money (or maybe somewhere around the same). There isn't a prospect in the system who looks like he could do it. Maybe some hope that the 1st round pick this year will be a phenom.... What sort of assets would have to be surrendered in a trade to get a Horvat replacement at a desirable cap hit? If another team has a guy like that, wouldn't they want a lot for him, let alone why would they want to trade him in the first place? If Miller is traded (as some hope) then who becomes the 2C (let alone the 3C)? If Miller is kept and Horvat is traded, then who becomes the 3C? It is commented that teams don't have 3Cs being paid whatever Horvat is currently getting, or might get in his next contract. But how many teams would have a 3C who can get 50+ pts and do whatever else Horvat does? Some talk about wanting "three scoring lines", but they want it for cheap. Having Horvat as the 3C makes the three scoring lines option realistic. And looking at some of the comparable players/contracts from Cap Friendly, aside from guys like Wehhberg, letting Horvat walk or trading him, and trying to replace him with a UFA would result in a contract at amounts equal to, or greater to the amount that some are balking at for Horvat... and with little to no promise of greater results than if the Canucks just signed Horvat in the first place. I'm currently in the camp where I see Horvat's value being high to the Canucks, but to replace that value with another guy will cost the team in some significant way. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but folks are going to have to come up with a pretty good argument. regards, G. Its odd You seem to be putting words into my mouth. Alot of what you have said here is projecting assumptions on my post, none of which I said. We clearly cannot trade both Bo and Miller, that makes no sense - its one or the other. In my view Miller is more valuable despite his 1.5 year age gap. Where did I say he's a 3c? I did not, in fact in other posts I called him a 2c as that's what he is. But we don't need 2- 2c's is the point You don't need to replace Horvat if you're keeping Miller. Regards, A Edited May 28, 2022 by NucknAsia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucknAsia Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Barzal is still on his second contract and is an RFA next year. Are you suggesting he is not getting a raise from his current $7 million deal? Pastrnak is also still on his 2nd contract. You don’t think he’s getting $9 million+ next summer as a UFA? Hischier is also on his 2nd contract. He decided to go long term, not like Barzal. Nylander signed his contract 4 years ago, again his second contract. Kyle Connor did the same thing as Hischier, signed a long term deal on his 2nd contract. Couturier signed an 8 year deal as a 29 year old. So he’s gonna be overpaid well before his contract is up. Not sure why you are comparing Horvat’s next deal when he will be a UFA versus a bunch of guys who are still on their 2nd contracts. If Horvat hits free agency he will get a 7x7 deal from somebody. Doesn’t matter whether he’s worth it or not. UFA’s are always overpaid. Comparing a bunch of guys who signed as an RFA to Horvat who will become a UFA doesn’t really make a lot of sense. The players who signed their second contracts were much higher point producers even at that time I'm not sure if you've noticed but it seems the league has moved to 2nd contracts effectively being the same as old UFA deals as players are getting PAID earlier, during their primes, vs later when teams don't want to commit alot of money to an older player. Add in the fact we've had a flat cap for 2 years and it will continue for a couple more at least, and teams have lost alot of money bec of covid, the idea that teams will over pay in the next 2-3 years is looking at the economic issues of teams/league with a very shallow lens Its easy to make simple arguments, its alot harder to assess ALL the factors/issues and think big picture. Horvat is not worth 7 mil. sorry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 16 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes, similar to to RNH who signed an 8 year deal with Edmonton. BO will need to do the same thing in order to lower his AAV. I would say your numbers are pretty accurate. On an 8 year deal I can see him taking $6.25 million. For the team's captain and shutdown C to take that as a hometown discount would be a steal, I sure hope they agree to something like that (the team needs to do cap gymnastics as it is, and any more and the team might be in cap trouble esp. if they don't find takers for Myers/ Dickinson/ Poolman or if they choose to keep Boeser/ Garland). He definitely brings value at $6.25 * 8 (he's probably sturdy enough to age well). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 49 minutes ago, NucknAsia said: The players who signed their second contracts were much higher point producers even at that time I'm not sure if you've noticed but it seems the league has moved to 2nd contracts effectively being the same as old UFA deals as players are getting PAID earlier, during their primes, vs later when teams don't want to commit alot of money to an older player. Add in the fact we've had a flat cap for 2 years and it will continue for a couple more at least, and teams have lost alot of money bec of covid, the idea that teams will over pay in the next 2-3 years is looking at the economic issues of teams/league with a very shallow lens Its easy to make simple arguments, its alot harder to assess ALL the factors/issues and think big picture. Horvat is not worth 7 mil. sorry Horvat may not be worth $7 million but a team will pay him that to take him for free as a UFA. I agree with the concept of players signing longer term 2nd contracts to have more guaranteed money with term when they are younger. However, if a player is 27/28 years old and is a UFA that player is gonna get paid. We will see what Forsberg signs for this year as well as little Johnny. I'm pretty sure a team will be offering Forsberg $9 million and little Johnny $9.5-10 million. The cap will go up substantially in the next 2 years. Some have said it will go up by $4-5 million within 3 years from what it is today. That should help with the bigger contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Horvat may not be worth $7 million but a team will pay him that to take him for free as a UFA. I agree with the concept of players signing longer term 2nd contracts to have more guaranteed money with term when they are younger. However, if a player is 27/28 years old and is a UFA that player is gonna get paid. We will see what Forsberg signs for this year as well as little Johnny. I'm pretty sure a team will be offering Forsberg $9 million and little Johnny $9.5-10 million. The cap will go up substantially in the next 2 years. Some have said it will go up by $4-5 million within 3 years from what it is today. That should help with the bigger contracts. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Phil_314 said: For the team's captain and shutdown C to take that as a hometown discount would be a steal, I sure hope they agree to something like that (the team needs to do cap gymnastics as it is, and any more and the team might be in cap trouble esp. if they don't find takers for Myers/ Dickinson/ Poolman or if they choose to keep Boeser/ Garland). He definitely brings value at $6.25 * 8 (he's probably sturdy enough to age well). I don't think he's a shutdown C. He's better defensively than some, but he's not a lockdown C like Kesler was. Horvat is definitely putting the team on his back in the faceoff dot though. Losing him cuts us at the knees. I for sure value him at 6.5-7mil per. Lets hope we can cut bait with Poolboy and Myers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Around 7mill/season is probably realistic. Thoughts? I really liked Horvat with EP on his wing. I hope we see that again next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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