[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

can we really be expecting big returns anymore? 

I'd still want more than a late first as the only thing of any use.

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, JM_ said:

it would have to be equivalent roster hits coming back tho, so Zacha and Debrusk would likely need to come back our way. 

Bo could easily slot into my Shipping Miller out to Boston proposal as Bo and Miller have roughly the same cap hit 

 

We'd just get more value than we would for Miller imo so the return would have to be tweaked

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I would too now that they've gotten rid of DeAngelo.

They're a fun team to watch, if Bo doesn't stick around here it'd be fun to watch him over there 

[erkayloomeh]

You don't trade players like Bo when you have guys on your roster like BB and CG. I'd dump BB for nothing before I would trade Bo because of $. 

[King Heffy]

30 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

They're a fun team to watch, if Bo doesn't stick around here it'd be fun to watch him over there 

Plus very well coached by a local guy.  Hard not to like Rod the Bod.

[5nothincanucksohno]

2 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

depends on who the young D is right? Who's the grade A centre prospect, and where is the 1st round pick they're choosing from? 

 

For sure, agreed it has to be the right trade (ie has the potential to shift the culture get the ship pointed in the right direction). I still need to do some research but would a deal such below be in the right direction (based on a the hockey writers article):

 

To Det:

Horvat with extension in place

 

To Canucks:

- William Wallinder (potential Hughes partner with Hughes moving to the right side)

- Marco Kasper - center

- 2023 1st round pick

- maybe even Zadina if Canucks throw in a 2nd/3rd (he has fallen out of favour in Det

 

Detroit might lose Larkin and need a center like Horvat

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by 5nothincanucksohno

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, lmm said:

if we ARE LUCKY, the Miller deal was an OEL contract waiting to happen from the minute it was signed

IF WE ARE UNLUCKY IT'S another Loui

so we're fucked either way. 

 

[N4ZZY]

41 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

You don't trade players like Bo when you have guys on your roster like BB and CG. I'd dump BB for nothing before I would trade Bo because of $. 

me too. i mean, i'm sad to say that, but brock's had issues staying healthy, he's not fast/quick. he's not worth the contract management signed him to. would've been better to have traded him than sign him to the next three years. I'd take a 2nd back for him (2023 2nd), and a B level prospect. 

 

I can't see any team or GM giving us a 1st, and a grade A prospect. 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

it would have to be equivalent roster hits coming back tho, so Zacha and Debrusk would likely need to come back our way. 

Debrusk and Zacha for Miller? 

 

I'd take those two for the opportunity to rid of Miller's contract. 

 

If he wins with Boston, great for JT. But I don't think he's going to win here, and if we're losing, we've seen what kind of "leader" he is. He doesn't play and lead by example. He whines, and complains. It's not someone I'd want leading a new core, if that's where management is moving towards. 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by N4ZZY

[J-Dizzle]

Keep Miller, Keep Bo. I love Brock and think he takes waaaaay to much flack on these boards but he may be the odd man out. I’d be tempted to try and run a top six of Miller/Bo/Podkolzin and Kuzmenko/petey/mikheyev. If need be move Boeser and Garland to create cap space to make it happen. 

[spook007]

5 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I am not sure of that, he is having an off year so far and is still scoring at close to a point per game. Imagine if he was on his game right now.

If he was on his game, we probably wouldn't have this discussion. 
Last year he drove the Bus. This year its Bo and EP. 
Miller is not playing as dominant as he was last year, although he has improved the last few games. 
 

Think he was going to be our no.2 C and Bo shipped out, to find the money for new contracts/ extensions. 
 

It didn't work to start the season, but unless he can centre a line on his own, both offensively and just as important defensively, that idea goes into the bin. 
 

Time will tell, but it seems to be a mess just now. 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Ya for sure...a lot will depend on individual performance between now and the deadline. I have nothing against those players and would love to see them succeed but I just think the torch needs to be passed to a new, younger leadership group.

 

- Miller has not been playing well but he still has 10 points in 11 games (6G, 4A). There is value there for teams that feel he can supplement a stronger leadership group. Could very well be a challenge but I think there will be interested teams. Plus, I believe the last two years of his deal are buy out friendly no?

- I think there will be quite a few teams competing for playoff spots this year. Hopefully it is a sellers market and Mgmt can take advantage of it.

- I think Myers will get more interest than people think, especially with $1M retained or something along those lines.

 

Atm Miller is not driving the bus, but yes still getting points. Last year he was the main man, while this year its Bo and EP so far. 
 

Agree nothing against them, and would love to see them succeed, but if not then something has got to give. 
 

I also believe Myers will be able to fetch something with some retention. 

Atm it doesn't seem to work, and I fear we'll end up like last year, picking 12-16th... 

 

Not bad enough to challenge for the top price and not good enough for playoffs. 
 

We'll see. 

[Canucklehead73]

Wonder how much JR wishes signed Horvat last month?

 

Still amazed how many people want to move Horvat...

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Wonder how much JR wishes signed Horvat last month?

 

Still amazed how many people want to move Horvat...

Some people do, but I think most folks talking about trading Bo aren't against keeping him at all, I think they just see it as being inevitable. 

 

He's without a doubt the easiest piece for us to move and given he's a UFA we've absolutely got to get value for him if he's not willing to re-sign. The longer this goes on the more I think he might just opt for a fresh start elsewhere. 

 

If he signs here it'll be fair value, but it'll likely cost more than it would have during the summer. I just don't see a team friendly deal happening or we probably would have seen it by now. 

[Ballisticsports.]

I think the Canucks always want Bo

They mentioned him in the summer as a core player (While oddly enough forgetting BB)

Maybe they haven't signed him yet as to not diminish the returns on the players that other teams will know they need to move out to be cap compliant next year?

The way they got the cap to max, makes me think that they have a plan with cap in mind

 

They haven't made any big moves because of the cap or contracts, but I still believe some big moves will be happening at some time and they have an idea on what they want to construct, but not overpay (even though they have no money, but not giving 1st up to do so) and they are just being patient for the right time and hoping the players can earn their pay and get them to a point of dealing in strength and not desperation

[mll]

11 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Not sure they’ll ever replace Bergeron no matter how hard they try. 
 

Last year Miller proved pretty capable at C. Not a strong start so far but I can’t imagine he stays at wing forever. 
 

Miller has a 52.6% career faceoff percentage in comparison to Dubois’ 44.7%. Miller in his past 3 years prior to this one also has two top 25 finishes in Selke voting and two top 20 finishes in Hart voting. In comparison Dubois has never been that high up in either voting throughout his career. 

 

They wouldn’t have to give up serious assets on their roster to acquire Miller. 
 

Dubois likely gonna cost them more than Miller would with more teams competing for his services. I also wonder if he’d get more in a contract. 

Doesn't mean they won't try to limit the gap.  The PHWA discloses the details of the Selke votes - wouldn't put much stock in the few points Miller received.

 

Dubois fits their age group better - Pastrnak, McAvoy, Carlo are their upcoming core.  Neely said he's been thinking about retool/rebuild.  He doesn't expect a tear down but they have to start getting younger.  They went after Montgomery because he is good with young players while they felt Cassidy stagnated on the development front.

 

They could also do like Carolina with Burns/Pacioretty and take an expiring contract as stop gap to buy time to develop a younger player.  Miller has too much term and is not even really a C.

 

[cripplereh]

I hope we keep Bo and cam get a trade for Miller BB Pearson and maybe Myers. 3 of the 4 would help us get Bo signed and Kuz.

[Provost]

10 hours ago, lmm said:

if we ARE LUCKY, the Miller deal was an OEL contract waiting to happen from the minute it was signed

IF WE ARE UNLUCKY IT'S another Loui

That is a very good way to put it.  We knew (or should have known) that the BEST case was that you were overpaying for a player who wasn’t going to be worth his cap hit later in the contract.

[Boudrias]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

That is a very good way to put it.  We knew (or should have known) that the BEST case was that you were overpaying for a player who wasn’t going to be worth his cap hit later in the contract.

Bo's scoring tear puts holes in a lot of assumptions by many pundits. A lot of those goals are coming from primary assists by Miller. Is this scoring tear a blip or a real indicator of Bo's offensive upside with the proper wingers? For me resigning Horvat was always more important than the Miller deal. His age is complimentary and his FO% has been consistently good. I suspect management is looking at their prospect pool and wondering if they have someone there that can climb into the top 6 and play with Bo. Perhaps we should get excited by McDonaugh who has a great shot and size!

 

If this is a rebuild on the fly then Miller and Boeser should be moved. That might not happen until spring. Management will have to see where the strength lies with this group. The better Miller plays the more easily he can be traded. If Boeser gets healthy long enough to play 20 games move him asap. 

[Junkyard Dog]

7 hours ago, mll said:

Doesn't mean they won't try to limit the gap.  The PHWA discloses the details of the Selke votes - wouldn't put much stock in the few points Miller received.

 

Dubois fits their age group better - Pastrnak, McAvoy, Carlo are their upcoming core.  Neely said he's been thinking about retool/rebuild.  He doesn't expect a tear down but they have to start getting younger.  They went after Montgomery because he is good with young players while they felt Cassidy stagnated on the development front.

 

They could also do like Carolina with Burns/Pacioretty and take an expiring contract as stop gap to buy time to develop a younger player.  Miller has too much term and is not even really a C.

 

You mentioned going from a Selke winner in Bergeron to Miller/Dubois. I just wanted to point out the credentials Miller has over Dubois like the aforementioned two top 20 voting in Hart trophy. 
 

I already mentioned face off stats which are superior career percentage than Dubois. He also had a 99 point season at C. 

 

Not to mention they have to compete with other teams for Dubois and they aren’t exactly that deep in terms of prospects. Would have to gut their prospect pool which doesn’t help them in the future. 

If they wanted a cheaper option with not really any competition Miller would present that. 

 

Bruins also signed Lindholm who’s similar age to Miller to a long term deal and might have been in on OEL. 
 

Overall I can see them going after him if they want a cheaper option and better player right away than Dubois.