With all due respect, I think the consensus on this board that Miller is getting traded before the TDL and the Canucks aren't making the playoffs is highly premature

[spook007]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Well said.  At the time of the Miller trade i'm pretty sure i said we just traded for another Horvat, but in his prime.   It's worked out really well for us.   He was buried in TB, but with 14 minutes of ice time, as a third line C he was still putting up a lot of points (and yes he was on their PP too)...50ish points with 14 minutes of ice time is very good production though - and he's been great for us since day one.    

 

Curiously (or on purpose?) we have a lot of great US players on the team.   Hopefully that works to our advantage in keeping it together .... QHs, Demko and Miller are all core guys for us.     As a team right now, they all want playoffs - that's the goal.   They've played so well for us since Bruce has come...this is what JB envisioned for us this season i'm sure.  That is a solid playoff team.   IF it started out right, Gadjovich would also be on this team which is unfortunate.   The past is the past.    All that they can do is make a solid push.    Even with Green there wasn't many games we weren't in it, because Miller was pushing when BB and EP were not.    Same with QHs and Demko.   I don't mind that Horvat is our captain, but i agree Miller is definitely Captain material.    Jovo should of got the C and not Naslund, i'm not one who likes giving the C to the teams best player, but in Millers case, if he re-signs, i wouldn't at all mind if it's made official and he gets it.   Nothing wrong with that. other teams have done this.  Gillies was NYI Captain for a short time before Potvin got it.    Luongo had it one year. 

 

OEL was very surprised and happy to see the amount of leadership in our room at the start of the year based on his comments.   He's another guy that's been there.    Myers ... these vets are pulling the cart.   

 

The goal is a cup.  For the team, players and the fans, management and ownership too.   Cleaning up the front office absolutely helps.   I have more faith we are headed in the right direction now, also grateful for Green working on a possession game (that seems to be what he was mandating this year - been a long time since we were top five in that regard), and Bruce for unleashing the D and working on tilting the ice even more to the o-zone.    This is hockey and you just never know.   Playing the best teams in the East lol... well we didn't look so bad against them did we?   Cooper said they stole the game against us and i'd agree they did.    Demko has a few times for us too - but all season long - even with Green we've played well 5 x 5.   That's what wins cups.  

You bet...

If the Covid Crap hadn't hit us I'd wager we'd have at least 2 more wins instead of losses, and we would be right in the middle of the chase... and that's achieve only since Bruce arrived... The group just needed a new voice by the look of it, or a more experienced one that has been around the block a few times, and probably have seen similar issues elsewhere during his coaching career...

 

When it come to sport I live from day to day... Believe in development and team building, but at the same time fully believe if a train start to roll, you let it roll... you just never know where it ends... heart and belief is 10-15% on its own, and can and often is the difference between the haves and haves not...

 

I understand both side of the arguments, and they both have merit, but you just never know.... I don't envy JR and Alwyn having to make the call... Good thing is they know more about this in a pinky nail, than most of us will in a life time... 

 

Tell you what though... This is a much more fun debate than the ones about, who sucks the most

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by spook007

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

You bet...

If the Covid Crap hadn't hit us I'd wager we'd have at least 2 more wins instead of losses, and we would be right in the middle of the chase... and that's achieve only since Bruce arrived... The group just needed a new voice by the look of it, or a more experienced one that has been around the block a few times, and probably have seen similar issues elsewhere during his coaching career...

 

When it come to sport I live from day to day... Believe in development and team building, but at the same time fully believe if a train start to roll, you let it roll... you just never know where it ends... heart and belief is 10-15% on its own, and can and often is the difference between the haves and haves not...

 

I understand both side of the arguments, and they both have merit, but you just never know.... I don't envy JR and Alwyn having to make the call... Good thing is the know more about this in a pinky nail than most of us will in a life time... 

 

Tell you what though... This is a much more fun debate than the ones about, who sucks the most

 

 

I laughed a little when a week or so i think DeNiro or someone made a thread "Miller do we really need him " or something of the sort ... yes we need him.    It's a little gut wrenching thinking about what we lose when he's gone/if he's gone.   Because he's a valuable player.   I do wonder what we'd all be proposing if his cap hit was say like Eichel's is though.   He's actually producing up to that or around that standard.   No i don't think he's going to get a double digit legacy deal, but he is extremely durable, and he's going to get paid what he's actually worth, which is a heck of a lot more then he's got so far on our team.    That's the crux.    Glad i'm not the GM.   In the meantime, like a lot of other good-great players, i'm just going to enjoy him no matter how long he is here for. 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

I laughed a little when a week or so i think DeNiro or someone made a thread "Miller do we really need him " or something of the sort ... yes we need him.    It's a little gut wrenching thinking about what we lose when he's gone/if he's gone.   Because he's a valuable player.   I do wonder what we'd all be proposing if his cap hit was say like Eichel's is though.   He's actually producing up to that or around that standard.   No i don't think he's going to get a double digit legacy deal, but he is extremely durable, and he's going to get paid what he's actually worth, which is a heck of a lot more then he's got so far on our team.    That's the crux.    Glad i'm not the GM.   In the meantime, like a lot of other good-great players, i'm just going to enjoy him no matter how long he is here for. 

Yep me too...

Don't worry about tomorrow but enjoy today... He will be paid and deserves to as well. 

Lets see enjoy Miller as long as he is here.... be is short or long. Either way it's a win/win

[Chris12345]

11 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

According to almost all stats this year, this is actually not the case, but keep with the media narrative by all means.

Sure. The right side is awful. It is not deep enough and guys are playing up in the lineup.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Chris12345

[mikeyman109]

As with any player you trade him if the return makes sense. I would trade Petey if it got us two NHL defensemen right now. There's no doubt we need to improve the back end but how we do that and who do we trade thats up for speculation. Miller, Horvat, Boeser could all be traded. Petterson also. No matter what happens people here will complain we either didn't get enough for them or we didn't give them enough time to develop in Vancouver. Personally id prefer they resign Miller and look at moving other players out. Boeser Pearson, even Petey. I think you could make a better argument for trading these three rather than JT. Just my humble opinion. Really the only untouchables on the team at this point should be Demko and Hughes. After that its all ears on what proposals we get. Return on investment. Thats what its all about.

[Devron]

8 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I would rather keep Miller and watch him decline over the next 5 years than trade him for a 1st round pick or even someone like Lafrenniere (best case scenario). We've got a >PPG big strong leader of a 1st line center, there's about 5-10 of them in the NHL. Miller, Petey and Bo are a perfect trio of centers who will naturally share and progress/regress over the next few years and interchange roles. 

 

If we're trading Miller we might as well go for an all-out sell and rebuild. which I doubt anyone wants. Nothing we get back will be better than what he is right now and for the next 5 years so I say we keep him. Even when he's 33 he'll be a perfect 3rd line checking center for us.

 

If NYR offered us Kakko and a 1st I'd still say no. That's a late 1st round pick for a GM who's had a bad drafting history and Kakko who's not really proven himself to be the scorer everyone thought. Two pieces which look great but could turn into busts for a top-10 player in the league...

There’s actually a fairly good chance he’s still playing at a very high level at 33. Some of the best players in the league have been doing it 

[Timråfan]

16 hours ago, CanucksFan8353 said:

From scrolling through the threads over the last period of time, there seem to be 2 points of agreement on CDC:

 

1.  The Canucks aren't making the playoffs this year.

2. JT Miller is as good as gone and probably even before the TDL.

 

These two opinions, in my very humble opinion, are highly premature.  First, the team has run at a .650 winning percentage since Bruce "there it is" Boudreau" took over, which is stunning.  A .640 or less winning percentage henceforth gets us in.  Second, we just survived a COVID wave that nearly decimated the team with 4 points out 10 where we very possibly could have received zero.  We have a player who everyone in the league is drooling over who just did something last night that hasn't happened since Pavel Bure did it in 1994 before the Canucks made their magical run that year.  Fourthly, have you forgotten the 7 wins in 8 game streak, the winning 4/5 games before that, the easy schedule we have coming up in February.  Lastly, for you to believe the Canucks will miss the playoffs this year, you have to look at the standings and tell me that Dallas, Calgary, Edmonton and San Jose are such colossuses that there is no way we can catch them by the end of the regular season, as they are just so darn good while we are not.  Do you truly believe that?  Saying "too many teams" to jump over is intellectually lazy in my opinion.

 

As far as JT Miller goes, has AF from NY shown you ANYTHING to make you think that he will be as good as JT Miller?

 

Anyway, the consensus may be right and I may be wrong.  My only point here is that to have a consensus that the Canucks are out of the playoff race and JT Miller is basically 1 foot out the door already is highly premature.  For those of us still hoping for success, can you at least hold off on the Canucks obituaries until we see how February and the early half of March play out? Until we have Demko, Pearson, Horvat and Hamonic all back and healthy, etc.  Until we see if Sutter makes a return somehow?  Is there a need for the obits prematurely?

 

EDIT:  The Oilers fans were all on in the tanks and picks for years, and all it got them was a bubble playoff team and 1 round 2 game 7.  That strategy of tanking and trading hasn't worked out terribly well for them has it?

What I’ve seen is that we are cautiously optimistic about playoff and realistic about keeping Miller or not.

 

The window starts when the core, Petey, Hughes etc is over 25 years.

So when Miller wants his raise we really need cheap players on ELC, cheap bottom 6 players instead and a quality rhd so we can apply different strategies(both 5v5 and PP)

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, Devron said:

There’s actually a fairly good chance he’s still playing at a very high level at 33. Some of the best players in the league have been doing it 

There’s an even higher chance Miller will not re-sign with us, when he becomes a UFA.  Get the assets for him now.  

[Devron]

Just now, Alflives said:

There’s an even higher chance Miller will not re-sign with us, when he becomes a UFA.  Get the assets for him now.  

We’ll see what happens sir 

[J.I.A.H.N]

Well, this team is currently 4 or 5 spots out of a playoff spot

 

To me, it is really a question of when JR thinks we are a top 10 playoff team, and if he thinks we will do that in the next 3 years, maybe less.......

 

We are definitely playing at a better pace, than our current position, that is no question

 

But does JR see this teams roster good enough to take the next step, in that time? I guess we could ask Alf, but really, once he is into the catnip, 

 

well he is pretty much useless.............but seriously, does JR see us there? I don't see it, but JR isn't asking me!

 

What is JR's evaluation of our team? That is really our only clue..............

[combover]

JR wants a cup team Jb build a fringe last wildcard team.

 

millers value is at its peak he’s not even a rental with 1 year left increases his value.

the old model of holding onto guys for the slightest hope of making the playoffs and letting them leave for free or reducing their value has gotten us here. A team just good enough to stay bad with  No nhl ready prospects or depth. 

 

it’s not about tanking it’s about knowing the team isn’t good enough the way it is. And instead of continuing with the failed model of the past and accepting mediocrity it’s time to draft develop and actually build. 
buying ufas and over paid vets isn’t building. 
 

im good with them trading almost everyone Demko hughes ep boeser podz would be untouchable 

And getting the horrendously mismanaged cap under control. 
 

 

 

 

 

[DefCon1]

16 hours ago, Coconuts said:

And if it happens, it should be. You don't trade him for scraps, and we won't. Teams will have to pay up if they want our players.

if NYR gives us 1st, Scneider, Ottoman or Lunkvist, Canucks would be fools not to trade them Miller. That would be 3 1st rounders

[DefCon1]

16 hours ago, CanucksFan8353 said:

I never thought of Miller being traded and still making the playoffs.  If they can be delinked, as Alf suggests, I'd be all for getting a deeper playoff team in a JT Miller trade.  I had always thought that a JT Miller trade = no playoffs but I can handle a delinking.  For example, if we could get a RHD and a proven playoff scorer for this year's run, go for it.  I'm not attached to JT Miller by any means, especially since he seems to not want to be here.  Then again, Kawhi didn't want to be in Toronto but did win them a NBA championship.  So it's tough.

Did he say that or is that one of those crazy assumptions fans here have about miller just because he sometimes looks pouty like Bertuzzi used to be? Give me a link with a direct quote from Miller that says he doesnt want to be here.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Schneider and Lafreniere are worth it without the first.   Not sure NYR is in the win now mode either...but they could be if they traded for Miller.   A lot of close teams could.   

The Rangers biggest issue is scoring.  Their leading scorer is a defenceman.  Unless you are Bobby Orr that shouldn't be the case.  Miller would take them over the top and be a true cup contender.  I can see them doing Schneider, 2022 1st and a top prospect.  But the holdup in the trade in my opinion is JR is most likely asking for Lafreniere, which is why they are reporting that the ask is astronomical.

 

We will see how it goes over the next month.  I think Miller remains a Canuck unless a team overpays big time...

[Elias Pettersson]

For those who thought Benning was terrible at trades:

 

JT Miller for a 1st and a 3rd

Tyler Motte for Thomas Vanek

Spencer Martin for a bag of pucks

Juho Lammikko for some extra sticks

Conor Garland AND OEL for a 1st , 2nd and some dead weight

Matthew Highmore for Adam Gaudette

Tanner Pearson for Erik Gudbranson

 

Yeah he made some bad trades over the years but so has everyone else.  Those 7 trades are as solid as they come.  Some are highway robbery...

Edited January 29, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[grandmaster]

58 minutes ago, Alflives said:

There’s an even higher chance Miller will not re-sign with us, when he becomes a UFA.  Get the assets for him now.  

You keep going with that. If that’s true then we are all with you but do not assume that. Your perspective is way too negative.

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

For those who thought Benning was terrible at trades:

 

JT Miller for a 1st and a 3rd

Tyler Motte for Thomas Vanek

Spencer Martin for a bag of pucks

Juho Lammikko for some extra sticks

Conor Garland AND OEL for a 1st , 2nd and some dead weight

Matthew Highmore for Adam Gaudette

Tanner Pearson for Erik Gudbranson

 

Yeah he made some bad trades over the years but so has everyone else.  Those 7 trades are as solid as they come.  Some are highway robbery...

Very true. The only downfall for JB was his inability to act in a timely fashion; like how he “ran out of time” for TT who wanted to stay and how he let the team crash and burn the first quarter of the season. JB is one of those weak leaders that freeze under pressure. He was like George Bush in that kindergarten class while 911 was happening. 

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Rangers biggest issue is scoring.  Their leading scorer is a defenceman.  Unless you are Bobby Orr that shouldn't be the case.  Miller would take them over the top and be a true cup contender.  I can see them doing Schneider, 2022 1st and a top prospect.  But the holdup in the trade in my opinion is JR is most likely asking for Lafreniere, which is why they are reporting that the ask is astronomical.

 

We will see how it goes over the next month.  I think Miller remains a Canuck unless a team overpays big time...

Time will tell what the right thing to do is/was -like it usually is.   Can say to me at least, it wasn't that long ago MG signed a lot of not so team friendly legacy deals that bit us in the ass in the long run - and any fan who's complaining about "8 long years" needs to do some review.   Right now the team has a lot of assets other teams would love.   OTT literally dismantled a team that almost made the final .. Melnyk gets a rep for being cheap, Dorian gets a rep for being super smart about it.    Because if he doubled down on that core they'd have gone nowhere even without the noise and dumb crap that happened.   The Keenan era, however painful, gave us two cores that were really good.   One a top team - the best in the league for a couple of years and considered the best team not to win a cup since expansion - that's a pretty high bar for considering the other teams that didn't win.  Lindros Flyers,  Sharks Thornton years, LA Gretzky peak years etc .,, 

 

If the goal is the cup...yes i'm a hopeful optimistic guy, even after all this time.  Cap era makes the difference between a playoff team and a contender razor thin. Who know maybe MIN wins a cup this year.   Or LA again lol.  Or TO finally (ok not them) or EDM.    It's that carrot that keeps me going .... at least for now.   Vancouver might need to go back to rebuilding.   It's for sure a possibility. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[DefCon1]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Time will tell what the right thing to do is/was -like it usually is.   Can say to me at least, it wasn't that long ago MG signed a lot of not so team friendly legacy deals that bit us in the ass in the long run - and any fan who's complaining about "8 long years" needs to do some review.   Right now the team has a lot of assets other teams would love.   OTT literally dismantled a team that almost made the final .. Melnyk gets a rep for being cheap, Dorian gets a rep for being super smart about it.    Because if he doubled down on that core they'd have gone nowhere even without the noise and dumb crap that happened.   The Keenan era, however painful, gave us two cores that were really good.   One a top team - the best in the league for a couple of years and considered the best team not to win a cup since expansion - that's a pretty high bar for considering the other teams that didn't win.  Lindros Flyers,  Sharks Thornton years, LA Gretzky peak years etc .,, 

 

If the goal is the cup...yes i'm a hopeful optimistic guy, even after all this time.  Cap era makes the difference between a playoff team and a contender razor thin. Who know maybe MIN wins a cup this year.   Or LA again lol.  Or TO finally (ok not them) or EDM.    It's that carrot that keeps me going .... at least for now.   Vancouver might need to go back to rebuilding.   It's for sure a possibility. 

Can you imagine for a second NYR gets desparate and loses their marble trading us Lafferenier, Schnirder, Ottoman and a 1st? That would make the Canucks a possible cup contender in as little as 2 years time if Laf figures out that he is a 1st overall pick and ottoman makes the team. 

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

Can you imagine for a second NYR gets desparate and loses their marble trading us Lafferenier, Schnirder, Ottoman and a 1st? That would make the Canucks a possible cup contender in as little as 2 years time if Laf figures out that he is a 1st overall pick and ottoman makes the team. 

I can totally see that happen if a rival team gets Chychrun.  Canucks would need to add or retain 50% on Miller to get that package.