Just want to know you guys' opinion about Canucks identity

[tan]

what identity Canucks should establish?

 

 

 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

I think Jim Rutherford already said, "speed and skill". Boudreau's known for loving speed.

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

The first highlighted section is a little unfair to compare to the Canucks.

You could say that with Vegas and a lot of teams around the league who have been around even longer and didn't manage to make the conference finals as much, in a long while.

 

That said, its been a long time coming with a new management group, but I'm hopeful for the offseason and what our management can actually plan for the future of this team. A lot more time to actually plan out a process and not have the hectic season to think about or a TDL where you don't have the luxury of much time/flexibility. 

 

I think concept of the identity of a team in the modern NHL is a little overrated. tbh.

 

Honestly you just need a cohesive unit with enough elite talent on all facets to compete. On top of that, all the "identities" of the best teams seem to all mimic one another nowadays.

 

It's all about speed and skill. Look at the Hurricanes, Bolts, Avalanche for example. They're all young, speedy and skilled.

It would be kind of hard for me to put a distinction between those teams other than that. 

 

I wouldn't say its like the 2010's where there would be a mostly skilled team like a Chicago vs. a big and strong Boston team or a heavy LA team.

Times have changed.

[Nucker 67]

This is great! I love giving my opinion. 

 

Hockey has changed a whole lot since the 80s and 90s. There aren't any dynasties anymore, including TB because they cheated.

 

To be fair, the Canucks have been to 3 SCF and the VGK 1 time

 

In their first season, VGK had the perfect storm of motivated players and a great goaltender. Then later, they were even allowed to skip the Seattle expansion draft.  They have no clue what losing means yet, but the good news is, they're now starting to lose.  It's been downhill for them since their first season.  The league set them up for success and they couldn't do it. Nice try Bettman.

Edited April 7, 2022 by NUCKER67

[Kelly Green]

Back in the early 00's when Jovo, Ohlund, and Cooke were physically punishing the opposition the crowd was even louder than the bass notes produced when Bertuzzi was trying to put Chelios through the end boards.

 

Thats the identity I want back.

[Angry Goose]

tenacity is a key characteristic Id like to see identified in players.  

[Rubik]

11 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

The league set them up for success and they couldn't do it. Nice try Bettman.

lol, do you remember what were the pre-season predictions for that team?

[kloubek]

Does a team ever REALLY have a true "identity"? I mean, it's talked about here and there but at the end of the day, either you have a successful group or you don't. You have big bruisers or you don't. You have speed or you don't. You have skill or you don't. There are many elements that go into a successful team, and I don't think there is a "secret recipe" that makes it work every time.

 

Maybe there is a big, tough team with nasty players who bruise their opponents into submission, but they don't have enough skill to be successful. Or maybe they are a highly skilled team with a bunch of great guys, but they get pushed around and fall short when the pressure is on. These teams are generally viewed as not having an identity because they haven't found the right combination yet.

 

And sometimes, a team manages to have a good amount of all these traits, and then all of a sudden we say they "found their identity". What I believe that REALLY means is that the team simply "works". They found the combination that gains them wins. Tampa is a good example of this. They have some sizable players, they are quick and skilled, and it all generally just "works", and the results are in their record over the last several years.

I think our team has the great guys. I think we have a fair amount of skill - though not top-notch. I don't think we have quite enough size. Any way you look at it though, nobody is likely to herald our "identity" until we start making a serious impact in the league again.

[Phil_314]

Speed, skill, hitting, two-way play on the ice.

Wise cap management off the ice (forgot where I read it from, but Tampa has such a hierarchical difference in terms of top-6 F  vs. bottom-6 F and top-4 D vs. bottom-2 D pay.  All the big bucks go to the top-6 and top-4, while the bottom-6 and bottom-pair guys get around a million yet are strong contributors.  They don't have the Poolman's, Dickinson's, Myers' and the like, who are overpaid yet underperforming).  

Other contenders (e.g. Avalanche with Mackinnon, Canes with Aho, Panthers with Barkov) have stars earning well below their actual worth, to help the team contend.  We kind of have that, but at the same time we again have big ticket contracts that are inefficient, and that should be the top priority to fix, followed by replacing them with hungry young guns.

If we go by the above point about having an optimized roster, without suggesting trades/ signings it probably looks something like

Petey - Miller(?) - Boeser(?) [question marks of course due to the uncertainty about retaining them; if they stay then that should still be a good line]
Podkolzin - Bo - Garland [more big ticket guys but also Podkolzin who's looked pretty good off the rush; need to let him develop next to the big guns]
Pearson* - ______ - Hoglander [asterisk beside Pearson due to him being worth more than his pay per analytics, but ofc we can hardly afford him; trade if we can't afford]
________ - Lammikko - Highmore [hopefully with Motte gone, those two and whoever the new guy is can still form a competent 4th line]

Hughes - Schenn (#1 D and Schenn who's earning above his pay grade)
OEL - ________ (Myers and Poolman have both underwhelmed, to put it lightly)
Dermott - _______  (keep the young guy who can skate, is cheap and who we just acquired)

Demko
Martin

[bigbadcanucks]

Team identity that I would love...a team that plays like a pack of angry and hungry wolves that are ALWAYS on the hunt for a kill and never satisfied with what they've captured.  This means smart, strong, aggressive, quick, agile, mean and always searching out its next prey.  Want a bunch of players who is willing to impose its will on its opponents, rather than always reacting to what the opponent brings to the ice surface.

 

Very tired of a pack of poodles that this team has been for most of its 50+ years.

[Baggins]

I don't think teams really develop their identity until the core is a set and the team is actually decent. The way that core plays and acts becomes the team identity.

[IBatch]

56 minutes ago, Kelly Green said:

Back in the early 00's when Jovo, Ohlund, and Cooke were physically punishing the opposition the crowd was even louder than the bass notes produced when Bertuzzi was trying to put Chelios through the end boards.

 

Thats the identity I want back.

Funny because that was a smallish team compared to the one in the early 90's.   Jovo was just barely average compared to the D we used to have.   Sandlak .. wasn't as good as Bertuzzi but the same size and Cooke played with an edge but hardly a needle mover.  Chelios was tiny too.   But a heck of a player.   As far as identity goes, the peak Sedin era had a larger one then the WCE era ever really managed.   But i get the sentimentality.   Ohlund and Jovo could crush guys... was a good team ....

[Chris12345]

I hate watching them get pushed around, win or lose.

 

Bring in some big boys.....and I mean big. None of this 6'1 205 lb crap.

 

Antons - 2 buns - dessert, I'm still hungry big.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Chris12345

[hammertime]

3 hours ago, Vinny in Vancouver said:

I think Jim Rutherford already said, "speed and skill". Boudreau's known for loving speed.

Here in lies the problem. Um we don't really have much of that and even if we did..... "a team like that" is fragile and needs a certain amount of intimidation to keep teams honest. Intimidation we have none of. I appreciate the effort from Burr Schenn Myers in this regard but the reality is there's too much bread and not enough PBnJ. I know a couple peanut butter lovers but the Jam was that teams identity embrace the hate has been for decades from Ruutu, Jovocop, Bertuzzi, Cooke, May.....to..... Kes, Bieksa, Burr, Rypien, Max Lap, Torres.

 

For me this team is slow and soft. It needs to be built around Pete, Hughes, Podkolzin. I'm fine giving Miller the money but Brocks gotta go and I think we have to prepare for the real possibility that Bo may want to test UFA.   

[Vinny in Vancouver]

16 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Here in lies the problem. Um we don't really have much of that and even if we did..... "a team like that" is fragile and needs a certain amount of intimidation to keep teams honest. Intimidation we have none of. I appreciate the effort from Burr Schenn Myers in this regard but the reality is there's too much bread and not enough PBnJ. I know a couple peanut butter lovers but the Jam was that teams identity embrace the hate has been for decades from Ruutu, Jovocop, Bertuzzi, Cooke, May.....to..... Kes, Bieksa, Burr, Rypien, Max Lap, Torres.

 

For me this team is slow and soft. It needs to be built around Pete, Hughes, Podkolzin. I'm fine giving Miller the money but Brocks gotta go and I think we have to prepare for the real possibility that Bo may want to test UFA.   

Yup, the type of players the Canucks have don't really fit that. When Rutherford first mentioned that, I was thinking that there's going to be so much turnover in the team so maybe time to say goodbye to a few of them. Imho, they need to keep at least one of Bo or JT as they seem to be the 2 main leaders of the team based on who speaks to the media.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Hate this idea of an identity. Every team's identity is the same. Look at Toronto - "speed and skill". Look at Colorado - "speed and skill". It's a nonsense idea for the media to run with to try and create headlines.

 

Every team in this modern era pretty much play the same way - top scorers up front, one or two puck moving defencemen with 4-5 shutdown guys and one goalie who's better than the other.

 

Where's the variation? You could argue Edmonton are a bit different because they have two 100 point players and no good goalie. You could argue Toronto have an almost-goal per game scorer in Matthews but inconsistent defending.

 

Identity is a joke and basically just comes down to the playstyles of the top stars of the team, not so much the team itself. 

[iceman64]

7 hours ago, tan said:

what identity Canucks should establish?

 

 

 

I'm not sure that at this point it matters as we're still a few moves away and get some skilled toughness into the line-up we'd get destroyed in the playoffs because we all know it's nothing compared to the regular season, if for some crazy reason the stars align for the Vancouver Canucks and we do toughen and size up with no loss to speed or skill then when and if we get there, our identity is that we could beat anyone in the league or give them a hard run for their money. 

There are small bright spots of Klim and Podz that could really turn out to be a huge help besides cap space. 

And another of Lockwood not looking that out of place with us right now and at worst we'll have a lot more competition for roster spots and depth that can step in without looking out of place. 

Are we there yet? No but for once it's good to see guys like Klim and Lockwood at least with potential to help us out so we don't have to suffer trying to afford to sign other upgrades and raises with minimal cap movement hanging over the NHL. 

Hopefully thing work out for a change..  

[Kelly Green]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Funny because that was a smallish team compared to the one in the early 90's.   Jovo was just barely average compared to the D we used to have.   Sandlak .. wasn't as good as Bertuzzi but the same size and Cooke played with an edge but hardly a needle mover.  Chelios was tiny too.   But a heck of a player.   As far as identity goes, the peak Sedin era had a larger one then the WCE era ever really managed.   But i get the sentimentality.   Ohlund and Jovo could crush guys... was a good team ....

That was an exciting team to watch and the some of the loudest crowds I can remember, thats what I miss the most .

[iinatcc]

Apparentyl they don't start on time so .... 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by iinatcc

[Kevin Biestra]

I think the identity of the 94 Canucks never really went out of style when it comes to winning championships.  Big, strong, fast, don't take crap, everybody stands up for each other and for themselves (Bure, Ronning, Courtnall, etc.).  All of those guys including little Cliff didn't rely one hundred percent on enforcers to make sure they weren't pushed around...they pushed back.  Balanced scoring through three lines, solid defense with at least some offensive prowess, hard nosed crease clearing d-men (Snepsts / Campbell / Butcher or Diduck / Murzyn / Babych) and A+ level clutch goaltending.

 

And this was basically the identity of the 82 Canucks just with a bit of superstar scoring in Bure.  Otherwise the teams were very similar...Rota, Fraser, Williams, Smyl all scored and stood up for themselves.  Smyl and Fraser and Williams were the team's top scorers and its enforcers.

 

The Naslund era was the start of "leave it to Brashear and to some degree Bertuzzi / Jovo" to deter the rough stuff against the skill players, instead of the skill players doing it themselves.  That's how we ended up with the Bertuzzi / Moore incident in the first place.  The Sedins took it to an entirely new level with "pimpslap my face a hundred times like you're Morgan Freeman in Street Smart and maybe we'll get you on the power play."  The Sedins and Naslund were great players and I have tons of praise for their individual awards and the team success under the Sedins...but it also established a culture that can only get you through the playoffs if you can 80s Oilers your way past the other team skillwise.  We had that for a few years when the Sedins were at their peak but when that isn't the case then it just means your team is a pushover.

 

Anyway, it looks like we might have a goalie in the tradition of McLean / Brodeur / Luongo / Smith in Demko, and in Hughes we have at least one defenseman who can match and surpass Brown / Lumme from 94 and McCarthy / Lanz / Halward from the 80s.  As for the rest...we'll see.

 

I think you need a clutch goalie and a clutch captain at the bare minimum.  We had that in Brodeur / Smyl.  We had that in McLean / Linden.  It was iffy in both cases with Luongo / Sedin.  The Sedins never really upped their game in the playoffs over the regular season and I have said before something along the lines that Luongo was three parts Ken Dryden and one part Dan Cloutier.  The great Cup winners had clutch captains or de facto captains...Gretzky, Crosby, Yzerman, Sakic, Scott Stevens, Denis Potvin etc.  And other clutch players on the team who may as well have been captains...Messier, Anderson, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Trottier, Bossy, etc.

 

Linden is one of the all time game seven kings, and the only guy who showed up for the bronze medal game in 98, just doesn't have a Cup to go with it.  Is Bo one of those guys?  Maybe...we'll see.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Kevin Biestra