Jim Rutherford on DFO Rundown Podcast

[JM_]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Yeah we don't want to have any 100 point players on the team or guys who can clear the front of the crease for Demko and fight if necessary. 

 We definitely need to keep up the soft team that gets dumped first round but looks great in the regular season.

 

didn't say that was my preference, just what I thought was likely 

[iceman64]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:09 AM, MrCanuck94 said:

Benning said that when our core was on the down side and about to retire and consistently made moves against the long-term strategy.

 

Also, disagree that it's all talk, there has been a lot done in the organization within the first 5 months not related to player movement and setting new standards. JR/PA are taking over a core that already consists of a 1C, 1D and 1G in their early 20s with multiple other young pieces. Their first few player moves are already supporting the long-term strategy.

 

Of course we have to wait for the moves, but they have history of being best of the best management groups ever in hockey. The intelligence and skill level of this management group is quite high and their communication levels are impeccable so far. Unfair to compare that to Benning's tenure at all. 

Your first sentence, JB had to do two things at once while he was here, keep the team competitive and fill the seats, plug the holes  while waiting for the long terms to come off and then try and build with what was left over as far as picks  and wait and see how they worked out. 

 Most Vancouver fans are too impatient and too f'n stupid to see how next to impossible that really is in the first place and if possible how long that would take with so many variables but again, that would take thought on their own part rather than listen to our bush league media.  It's going to be ironic how fast people will turn on JR and AL when favorite players are traded out.

[Fred65]

35 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Your first sentence, JB had to do two things at once while he was here, keep the team competitive and fill the seats, plug the holes  while waiting for the long terms to come off and then try and build with what was left over as far as picks  and wait and see how they worked out. 

 Most Vancouver fans are too impatient and too f'n stupid to see how next to impossible that really is in the first place and if possible how long  would take with so many variables but again, that would take thought on their own part rather than listen to our bush league media.  It's going to be ironic how fast people will turn on JR and AL when favorite players are traded out.

I here waht you're saying but the fact is JB achieved nothing in almost 8 years, other than a list of expensive UFA which is going to take time to rebuild the Salary Cap which is a disaster plus of course the guru drafted Juolevi and Virtanen amd threw away draft picks like confetti. The team after 8 yers under his command was no better than when he arrived. At least his predecesor got to game 7 of the SC and won the Presidents trophy twice.

[DeNiro]

Just now, Fred65 said:

I here waht you're saying but the fact is JB achieved nothing in almost 8 years, other than a list of expensive UFA which is going to take time to rebuild the Salary Cap which is a disaster plus of course the guru drafted Juolevi and Virtanen amd threw away draft picks like confetti. The team after 8 yers under his command was no better than when he arrived. At least his predecesor got to game 7 of the SC and won the Presidents trophy twice.

Hopefully this is a learning lesson for ownership. Hire a competent president and let him manage the GM.

 

With a competent president in place they would have never let Benning continue with what he was doing for 8 years.

It was obvious to everyone but ownership that he was spinning his tires and getting himself into more and more cap trouble. He should have been gone before he even had a chance to make the OEL trade after they failed to make the playoffs yet again in 2021.

[higgyfan]

18 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

 

 Most Vancouver fans are too impatient and too f'n stupid to see how next to impossible that really is in the first place and if possible how long that would take with so many variables but again, that would take thought on their own part rather than listen to our bush league media.  It's going to be ironic how fast people will turn on JR and AL when favorite players are traded out.

Which teams have never won the Stanley Cup?

 

1. Arizona Coyotes

 

2. Buffalo Sabres

 

3. Columbus Blue Jackets

 

4. Florida Panthers

 

5. Minnesota Wild

 

6. Nashville Predators

 

7. Ottawa Senators

 

8. San Jose Sharks

 

9. Vancouver Canucks

 

10. Vegas Golden Knights

 

11. Winnipeg Jets

 

 

We all know the big losers on this list.  After 52 years, the only thing that changes is the list gets shorter.

I wouldn't call Canuck fans impatient. They still support the team year after year.

[iceman64]

3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I here waht you're saying but the fact is JB achieved nothing in almost 8 years, other than a list of expensive UFA which is going to take time to rebuild the Salary Cap which is a disaster plus of course the guru drafted Juolevi and Virtanen amd threw away draft picks like confetti. The team after 8 yers under his command was no better than when he arrived. At least his predecesor got to game 7 of the SC and won the Presidents trophy twice.

His predecessor wasn't handed a broken team littered with long term contracts yes he made mistakes, and chose not to trade the twins when they were still worth something but they helped fill the seats, and actually OJ and Virtanen were picks for needs, which looked great on paper but life got in the way. Same with LE, a YouTube video of, I think the top 20 goals had LE on either a penalty shot or shoot out where he undresses the goalie completely, so what we all thought was a safe bet with the Twins to at least get more scoring but again, and what I'm starting to call the Vancouver curse strikes again, same with Rous, injured and never the same like OJ. 

 JV showing he could make pylons of opposing players and then failing between the ears, Beagle, well just could never find his game which had been good up to he arrived here. 

 Luc gone who was easily top 4 for years, and if you tallied all the lost playing hours of this team due to injury in the last 10 years, I bet we're first overall. 

 If it hasn't been one thing it's another, why such bad luck here? No idea but trying to turn a shattered team into a Stanley cup contender when fans demand the farm sold to win ONE now and that's never worked, EVER! 

 Well it will be interesting when JR and co. do things that aren't popular either but maybe for once Mgmt, besides JB chooses to build and say too bad, we have a good team, we just need a few upgrades and covering depth, and finally we can land elite status as in the top 10 teams consistently and PAST the first round, not turfed out. 

 No it's not fun when it's obvious your close but still need roster tweaks and depth and you can bet, that was JB doing as he plugged holes until reaching a point where previous picks made the roster or waiting for a spot to open up, and steal the odd young player prospect was what he was doing. 

 Not rocket science, there's nothing you can do in the circumstances but saying a presidents team with no depth is a good thing is b.s. when it can't get far for injuries in the playoffs always happen and that's the exact reason we have no cup. End of story.. 

[iceman64]

7 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Which teams have never won the Stanley Cup?

 

1. Arizona Coyotes

 

2. Buffalo Sabres

7 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Which teams have never won the Stanley Cup?

 

1. Arizona Coyotes

 

2. Buffalo Sabres

 

3. Columbus Blue Jackets

 

4. Florida Panthers

 

5. Minnesota Wild

 

6. Nashville Predators

 

7. Ottawa Senators

 

8. San Jose Sharks

 

9. Vancouver Canucks

 

10. Vegas Golden Knights

 

11. Winnipeg Jets

 

 

We all know the big losers on this list.  After 52 years, the only thing that changes is the list gets shorter.

I wouldn't call Canuck fans impatient. They still support the team year after year.

3. Columbus Blue Jackets

 

4. Florida Panthers

 

5. Minnesota Wild

 

6. Nashville Predators

 

7. Ottawa Senators

 

8. San Jose Sharks

 

9. Vancouver Canucks

 

10. Vegas Golden Knights

 

11. Winnipeg Jets

 

 

We all know the big losers on this list.  After 52 years, the only thing that changes is the list gets shorter.

I wouldn't call Canuck fans impatient. They still support the team year after year.

They do? Since when? It's so fair weather, we go on a small losing streak it's blow it up and start over again or throw someone under the bus as quickly as possible..  (right Roberto?) 

 I've been watching and supporting for that long actually BUT I've never ever been a fan who wants a seasonal team over a playoff team with depth any day of the week.

 For awhile we had one of the best seasonal teams going but we sold the farm to get it.. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by iceman64

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I here waht you're saying but the fact is JB achieved nothing in almost 8 years, other than a list of expensive UFA which is going to take time to rebuild the Salary Cap which is a disaster plus of course the guru drafted Juolevi and Virtanen amd threw away draft picks like confetti. The team after 8 yers under his command was no better than when he arrived. At least his predecesor got to game 7 of the SC and won the Presidents trophy twice.

Night and day Fred, night and day.  

 

I wouldn't trade this team for the 2014-15 team.  Who was our prized young player back then, Bo Horvat and Brendan Gaunce?  

 

[iceman64]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

We had those two having career type years and still missed the playoffs.  Time to move them out for younger guys who will grow with our younger core.  

What makes you think they can't sustain it? JT certainly can, the guy has too much passion not to be the energizer bunny... I'd rather have him leading the younger core, you can't ask for a better example of what it takes to be elite, even Bo is just starting to hit that, JT is consistent and Bo feeds off that and so does the rest of the team.

 And JT had a great season the year before going step in step with OV almost the whole way through the season. He was just buried in a stacked Tampa team. What a steal! Anyway, c'mon Alf, we've been through this before, we both know we need balance and we're a lot closer to that then you might think. 

There might be some good news IF we don't get hit with another covid wave is a salary cap increase that would change everything. I can only imagine had we had the projected 5 mil a season for the last 3 seasons raises. 

 I doubt it will go up much atm but we have a few potential ELC's coming in so that might give us a bit of breathing room. See what happens.. it's hard to imagine the stars aligning for us as in a cup but we need to have at least a contender for more than one round of post season. 95 to 2010 was brutal especially and even worse before that most of the time. I'm not at all in for trading JT unless it's for a roster RHD and prospects but it had better be good.  

[Canuck Surfer]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:05 PM, D-Money said:

This is a bit juvenile. Miller has a family. The money he makes on this next contract is to set him, his wife, and their kids up for the rest of their lives. This contract is 6-8 years for us, but it affects decades upon decades for people much more important to him than “fans”.

 

Even if he really likes Vancouver, should he take less for his family just for the longshot of the team here being able to improve because of it? If it’s about him winning, it makes more sense for him to go to a stronger team than talking below market and staying here.

?

 

Most could make $5.25 Mill for 5 years.  Have $6 or $8 Mill in the bank.

 

Enough to retire, live off interest and safe investments with twice an average income.  Still increase your bank balance every year.

 

Juvenile is needing to live like Mogilny...

[D-Money]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

?

 

Most could make $5.25 Mill for 5 years.  Have $6 or $8 Mill in the bank.

 

Enough to retire, live off interest and safe investments with twice an average income.  Still increase your bank balance every year.

 

Juvenile is needing to live like Mogilny...

Well, if that is the standard, most regular  people could easily live off of the NHL minimum salary too. It’s a lot more than my family lives off of. 
 

So there must be more to it than that.

[Alflives]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

?

 

Most could make $5.25 Mill for 5 years.  Have $6 or $8 Mill in the bank.

 

Enough to retire, live off interest and safe investments with twice an average income.  Still increase your bank balance every year.

 

Juvenile is needing to live like Mogilny...

Elite athletes are hyper competitive.  They compete on the ice and off.  So their paycheck is part of how they compete too. There are a few who don't need to compare their paycheck with others (Hedman) and if Miller is one of those rare few, then he will accept the offer JR makes, which will be a lot lower than other similar level elite guys around the league are getting paid.   

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, D-Money said:

Well, if that is the standard, most regular  people could easily live off of the NHL minimum salary too. It’s a lot more than my family lives off of. 
 

So there must be more to it than that.

Yeah of course!

 

You have your Nate McKinnon's in their prime that could earn $10 Mill. Would be worth it?  Take less to stay with Col.  Alex Burrows took less than he deserved one contract, got overpaid next here. Kesler wanted everything he could get, every contract. Plus utilize clauses to go where he wanted.Lou wanted to leave 2010; let himself get talked into staying because he got waay overpaid.   

 

My take; I don't want to ''overpay'' guys to stay. Offer a fair / competitive contract without being top $. Or too aggressive on term.  4 or 5 years (in extreme) for 30 year old guys. And then only within the team structure & ability to compete. I feel 4 x $8 Mill / 5 x $7.25M is a good balance. Lots of US teams seem to have good players at these levels or lower. A problem is we have to beg guys to ''stay'' in Canada. But even then, can we compete with that?  Only if we blow through salary somewhere else. Which makes my view sign this only if $5 or $7 mill is cleared elsewhere. Not being able to clear salary & have JT Miller enthused about this; I am in trade Miller camp.     

[King Heffy]

14 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

?

 

Most could make $5.25 Mill for 5 years.  Have $6 or $8 Mill in the bank.

 

Enough to retire, live off interest and safe investments with twice an average income.  Still increase your bank balance every year.

 

Juvenile is needing to live like Mogilny...

He could want to make more and set his kids up for life as well though.  I wouldn't blame him.  I also find it hard to blame Almo for his money management when he grew up in the communist system and went through what he did to defect.

[Timråfan]

21 hours ago, iceman64 said:

His predecessor wasn't handed a broken team littered with long term contracts yes he made mistakes, and chose not to trade the twins when they were still worth something but they helped fill the seats, and actually OJ and Virtanen were picks for needs, which looked great on paper but life got in the way. Same with LE, a YouTube video of, I think the top 20 goals had LE on either a penalty shot or shoot out where he undresses the goalie completely, so what we all thought was a safe bet with the Twins to at least get more scoring but again, and what I'm starting to call the Vancouver curse strikes again, same with Rous, injured and never the same like OJ. 

 JV showing he could make pylons of opposing players and then failing between the ears, Beagle, well just could never find his game which had been good up to he arrived here. 

 Luc gone who was easily top 4 for years, and if you tallied all the lost playing hours of this team due to injury in the last 10 years, I bet we're first overall. 

 If it hasn't been one thing it's another, why such bad luck here? No idea but trying to turn a shattered team into a Stanley cup contender when fans demand the farm sold to win ONE now and that's never worked, EVER! 

 Well it will be interesting when JR and co. do things that aren't popular either but maybe for once Mgmt, besides JB chooses to build and say too bad, we have a good team, we just need a few upgrades and covering depth, and finally we can land elite status as in the top 10 teams consistently and PAST the first round, not turfed out. 

 No it's not fun when it's obvious your close but still need roster tweaks and depth and you can bet, that was JB doing as he plugged holes until reaching a point where previous picks made the roster or waiting for a spot to open up, and steal the odd young player prospect was what he was doing. 

 Not rocket science, there's nothing you can do in the circumstances but saying a presidents team with no depth is a good thing is b.s. when it can't get far for injuries in the playoffs always happen and that's the exact reason we have no cup. End of story.. 

Please, Benning was a disaster… One word is enough to describe what happened after Benning, communication. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Please, Benning was a disaster… One word is enough to describe what happened after Benning, communication. 

I couldn't care less about PR and communication. 

 

Give me good draft picks and good players on the team. 

[iceman64]

5 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Please, Benning was a disaster… One word is enough to describe what happened after Benning, communication. 

Yeah of course, our team was last overall, garbage goalies, Miller sucks, Alien is useless, Bo is pathetic at best, Flow is horrible, Hughes is awful! Podz should go back to Russia, Hogs is even worse.. Garland what a joke, OEL a top pairing D? Hah!  Myers is a shrimp, could push anyone off the puck or hit to save his life. Schenn is a pussy...  And there's zero chance of Klim or any other picks who will even get a whiff of the NHL! 

Yeah we SUCK!!! 

"Please?"   WTF?    Are you for real?! 

Edited June 21, 2022 by iceman64

[Gurn]

7 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Yeah of course, our team was last overall, garbage goalies, Miller sucks, Alien is useless, Bo is pathetic at best, Flow is horrible, Hughes is awful! Podz should go back to Russia, Hogs is even worse.. Garland what a joke, OEL a top pairing D? Hah!  Myers is a shrimp, could push anyone off the puck or hit to save his life. Schenn is a pussy...  And there's zero chance of Klim or any other picks who will even get a whiff of the NHL! 

Yeah we SUCK!!! 

"Please?"   WTF?    Are you for real?! 

You forgot to mention Dahlen, who is the original bit of sand in Timra's shoe.

[Alflives]

13 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Please, Benning was a disaster… One word is enough to describe what happened after Benning, communication. 

All GM's make mistakes.  Benning just made a lot more mistakes than others.  We look at the misses at the draft, and who he could have selected.  All rebuilding teams have misses with the highest picks during a rebuilding phase.  But those teams have also loaded up and second and third round picks to compensate for the inevitable high pick misses.

The Hawks are the perfect example.  During their rebuild (that got them their Cup core) missed with two top ten picks: Barker and (I forgot the other guy's name, but he played with us for a bit a few years back.)  But they had lots of picks in rounds two and three and got guys to make up for the misses.

Benning traded away a lot of his second and third rounders to bring in matured players in hopes to speed up his rebuild.  He, as a result, only got one guy for the core from that round, Demko.  Benning was the worst GM we've ever had, which we can debate.  And Gillis was the most successful, which is fact.   

[Canuck Surfer]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I'm going to have to ask for a source for this, because from what I recall of the talk of the time, he wanted to stay.

Well?  For starters he negotiated the right to demand a trade at different junction points. Into his contract. While also holding a NMC/NTC clauses giving him the power to dictate which teams he could accept said trade to.  

 

Then he only stayed when all that, and him being made the highest paid hockey player in the world in 2010? Were part of his $64 mill pact over 12 years.