[Signing] Penguins re-sign Bryan Rust

[mll]

2 hours ago, D-Money said:

Friedman has said a number of times that he's heard that Letang and the Pens are very far apart in what they are thinking. Malkin not as far, but not exactly close. 

 

The problem with both is they're 35. So term becomes tricky. Add both have been quite injury-prone at times. I can see why Pittsburgh might be afraid of giving either of them more than 2-3 years.

 

Friedman in his 32 Thoughts - he hadn't heard the same although his wording suggests that it might not be far off from Rossi's numbers for Malkin.    

 

8. The Athletic’s Rob Rossi exploded heads in Pittsburgh on Monday by reporting the Penguins’ best offers to Kris Letang and Evgeni Malkin were three years and $15 million. I’m always careful with this stuff because negotiations are a moving target, but here’s what I’ve heard: Malkin and the team definitely discussed a three-year term so he could line up with Sidney Crosby, but the two sides were far, far apart on the number. As for Letang, the last I heard was a four-year offer, at a bit less than his current average salary of $7.25 million.

 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, JM_ said:

according to capfriendly the take-home would be this if its all salary. So we'd have to up our offer by ~250k / year. 

 

$2,864,408 Pits 

 

$2,636,922 Van

Factor in guys are paid in US dollars, but live up here, Bess has 3.3 mil (Can dollars) in his pocket.  

Edited May 22, 2022 by Alflives

[Isam]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Factor in guys are paid in US dollars, but live up here, Bess has 3.3 mil (Can dollars) in his pocket.  

That is one factor but van isnt cheap compared to other nhl cities

[Wanless]

12 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Just wondering.

 

Does anyone know what the range would be, if you took Rust's cap and added the tax benefit of playing in Pittsburg?

My wife is an accountant and has done US taxes, we’ve discussed how this situation really looks

 

this idea of playing in a lower tax area is not as simple as people think

 

for example, when a florida player plays in canada or new york, they have to pay taxes on their earnings in canada and new york to canada and new york, it also works the other way around.

 

however, in the US income earned out of state is usually still taxed to a degree in the home state, essentially being taxed twice while in canada that is not the case

 

The tax situation isnt as lopsided as the collective CDC has played it out, however some teams have a better advantage its not as easy as saying those teams dont pay taxes

[D.B Cooper]

14 hours ago, grandmaster said:

We had a bit of that to a lesser extent with recent contracts for Demko & Hughes (not sure about Petey).

 

I see Miller, Boeser and Bo doing the same. Unfortunately we have a new management regime that is itching to make its own mark on the team.

What do you mean “unfortunately”?

This team isn’t close to good enough and there are huge holes all over the lineup. 
Im just glad it’s not Benning to continue making his mark on the team. 

[J-Dizzle]

4 hours ago, gurn said:

Rust    35 points in 75 play off games = .44 points per game

Brock  11 points in 17 play off games =   .64 points per game.

Rust’s career numbers are .63 ppg. Looks like he actually performs less in the playoffs….

Edited May 22, 2022 by J-Dizzle

[Alflives]

21 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Rust’s career numbers are .63 ppg. Looks like he actually performs less in the playoffs….

Boeser is a much more skilled player than Rust.  Plus, Boeser can score from distance without a screen.  Rust can’t unless it’s against a crappy goalie, like Campbell.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Boeser is a much more skilled player than Rust.  Plus, Boeser can score from distance without a screen.  Rust can’t unless it’s against a crappy goalie, like Campbell.  

I'd like to have them both here. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Boeser is a much more skilled player than Rust.  Plus, Boeser can score from distance without a screen.  Rust can’t unless it’s against a crappy goalie, like Campbell.  

Well if that is the case, then it looks like Rust can score much more in close.................. Just saying!

[BobbyClarke]

11 hours ago, Wanless said:

My wife is an accountant and has done US taxes, we’ve discussed how this situation really looks

 

this idea of playing in a lower tax area is not as simple as people think

 

for example, when a florida player plays in canada or new york, they have to pay taxes on their earnings in canada and new york to canada and new york, it also works the other way around.

 

however, in the US income earned out of state is usually still taxed to a degree in the home state, essentially being taxed twice while in canada that is not the case

 

The tax situation isnt as lopsided as the collective CDC has played it out, however some teams have a better advantage its not as easy as saying those teams dont pay taxes

I think there is a Canada-US tax treaty which stipulates that the American based athlete would only pay the Canadian taxes if the number of games played in Canada exceeded a certain number. And I think that number is quite high (ie like 180). 

[IBatch]

23 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Good reason JR wants cap flexibility. There are a lot of teams that are going to be giving assets to clear cap. 
‘Brock isn’t coming for $6M, we can just stop fantasizing about that. Don’t think JT comes under 9 (at least for first 4-5 years).

Brock was already being paid like a top line RW .... JR said he doesn't have a problem with his QO but also said he hasn't done enough for more then a 2-3 deal (and everyone knows he didn't earn his last deal ... Garland outperformed him without PP time at a million less) ... won't even check to see where he ended up for right wings ... outside of the top 30 i'm sure despite getting paid like a good RW (which last year he was)... fans are also dreaming if they think any team would pay hit what his QO offer is on more then one year as well - 9th highest paid RW next season and seriously flawed game last year.    If he signs a 2-3 year deal it won't be much more then what he's getting now, maybe even the same or less.   Hasn't earned it yet. 

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, Alflives said:

Factor in guys are paid in US dollars, but live up here, Bess has 3.3 mil (Can dollars) in his pocket.  

It makes zero difference - these guys still buy their cars in the US because they are 40-50% less then up here in CAN (sports cars/toys)  and buy property wherever they want.   Aside from maybe  housing - cost of living doesn't even come into any of these guys minds.   Any NHL player can buy property in CAN as well.   When it comes to food and other things it's all relative.   Wages are higher up here for the most part,  so is gas and food.   Those things ... what's 10k difference here or there per year per family to one of these guys?   Definitely not a big incentive.    Brocks got friends on the team (sure hope anyways), that helps, as does it's a nice city, especially if you have money.    There are quite a few cities in the US that also have pull, CHI, Boston, NY especially...WSH is nice too...Seattle meh...Vancouver is nicer for sure.   Tough to say what motivates these guys, but Canadian players seem to come home at some point, even if it's late in their careers.   I like Brock, hope he signs a 2-3 year deal around what he's getting now.   With some cap going up since he signed it's about all he's proved so far.    That QO was made with the idea cap would be going up, and that he wouldn't have as hard a time earning it.   Covid also screwed with us truly finding out ... he was very good last season and earned that year - the other two not so much. 

 

Edit:  On US players.   You'd think they'd have teams growing up they'd like to play with .... and that at some point, just like some Canadian players, they'd like to go home too.   If i was an NHLer Canucks absolutely would be my first choice - but of course any team would be fine to start with.   Vancouver is a beautiful city, and the province as a whole is an absolute gem.   Lots to do.  

Edited May 23, 2022 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Brock was already being paid like a top line RW .... JR said he doesn't have a problem with his QO but also said he hasn't done enough for more then a 2-3 deal (and everyone knows he didn't earn his last deal ... Garland outperformed him without PP time at a million less) ... won't even check to see where he ended up for right wings ... outside of the top 30 i'm sure despite getting paid like a good RW (which last year he was)... fans are also dreaming if they think any team would pay hit what his QO offer is on more then one year as well - 9th highest paid RW next season and seriously flawed game last year.    If he signs a 2-3 year deal it won't be much more then what he's getting now, maybe even the same or less.   Hasn't earned it yet. 

Signing a 3 year 18M deal would be the sort of thing that should get his agent fired unless he is intentionally taking a team friendly deal. 
He can have 7.5next year and then do you really think he will sign for less than 6 after that or on a UFA deal in a couple years. 
A full year of Bruce, Elias and Quinn with camps and a regression to the mean on shooting percentage and Brock is looking at a lot more than 6. 
Would be great job by management to get him at 6 on any term, I think that really is about where his comparables are if I being a bit generous to his game.  That being said in todays game if he wants to maximize his earnings vs be here or on a competitive team, he can likely fight his way to a lot more than 6M a year for the foreseeable future. 

[GB5]

23 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Rust is making 5.15. Million.............what has Brock done

Maybe not quite such an obvious comparison.

 

Rust plays on a team with two of the best forwards in the NHL and has clearly benefited from that.

 

Brock has scored 20+ goals in 4 out of 5 years on a team in flux, in essence I feel Brock has done more with less but the Rust contract could be a decent comparable based solely on points. If this Canucks team gets better then they get a bargain.

[Wanless]

13 hours ago, BobbyClarke said:

I think there is a Canada-US tax treaty which stipulates that the American based athlete would only pay the Canadian taxes if the number of games played in Canada exceeded a certain number. And I think that number is quite high (ie like 180). 

I just read about that. Athletes who are employees and are part of a league with regular scheduling in  canada who reside in the US dont have to file canadian taxes.

 

but the state to state is still imposed

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, GB5 said:

Maybe not quite such an obvious comparison.

 

Rust plays on a team with two of the best forwards in the NHL and has clearly benefited from that.

 

Brock has scored 20+ goals in 4 out of 5 years on a team in flux, in essence I feel Brock has done more with less but the Rust contract could be a decent comparable based solely on points. If this Canucks team gets better then they get a bargain.

There's also a five year gap. And really, Rust has peaked at 58 points in 60 games at age 30. The season before it was 42 in 56, the season before that he hit 56 in 55. 

 

Brock hit 55 and 56 his first two seasons but has otherwise been a mid to high 40's player, but the caveat to that is his games played. 45 in 57, 49 in 56, and finally 46 in 71. Even his first two years he didn't hit 70 games, this season was the first time he has. 

 

The big question is whether JR see's Brock as a player who could smash his previous point totals if he's able to stay healthy consistently or as a player who gives you 40-60 points while playing somewhere between 55-70 games. 

[awalk]

15 hours ago, BobbyClarke said:

I think there is a Canada-US tax treaty which stipulates that the American based athlete would only pay the Canadian taxes if the number of games played in Canada exceeded a certain number. And I think that number is quite high (ie like 180). 

I don't know if that applies to athletes, but I am really not sure. Definitely not an expert.

 

 

The Canada-US Tax Treaty, for instance, permits Canada to tax American independent-contractor athletes on all income earned from a performance in Canada, regardless of the time that the athlete spent in Canada. In other words, there's no 183-day test for non-resident athletes who work as independent contractors.

 

https://www.mondaq.com/canada/tax-authorities/968614/how-does-canada-tax-non-resident-pro-athletes-a-canadian-tax-lawyer39s-analysis#:~:text=The Canada-US Tax Treaty%2C for instance%2C permits Canada,who work as independent contractors.

Edited May 23, 2022 by awalk

[awalk]

Bryan Rust is one of those, familiar unfamiliar names in the NHL. Very cool to see he was drafted and developed by the Pens all the way through his career, to now thriving playing with Crosby and Guentzel or Malkin/whomever. Reminds me a bit of a fella we had who made his career later in the game, playing with two of the best in the world ... :D 

[Gawdzukes]

On 5/21/2022 at 7:52 PM, Lil B From The Pack said:

It's a legendary call of duty map I gotta say. I rate the signing. Cheers Geoff.

lol murderville, I rarely got this level, always super pumped

[Gawdzukes]

On 5/22/2022 at 2:18 AM, BigTramFan said:

$8.7m in 2013 was 13.5% of the cap limit. That would be the same as signing a $11.1m contract next season. And then factor in that Sid's contract was for 12 years! Not 7 or 8. Not sure it was truly a team friendly deal back then. But by the time you get into your 9th year the 8.7m figure seems low.

 

Rust's deal is definitely team friendly, and I think the PIT guys (Sid, Malkin, Letang, Rust) are going to keep the core together and try for another cup in the next 3 seasons.

It's Sidney Crosby. He was probably worth $11.1 and certainly 10. And he's certainly worth $8.7+++ during the duration. I think that was 100% a team friendly deal on which he had to know he'd be severely underpaid for a good portion of the deal. He's the best player in the game since Mario.