Herberts Vasiljevs Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: Would be a pretty crazy coup if we landed Michkov. I’ve been trying to keep my hopes down on him. If we deal with Philly and he’s gone, that would still leave Reinbacher, Leonard or Dvorsky on the board. Would be a pretty nice swaperoo. I listened to Donnie and Dhali's segment and found myself wondering the same as them: How the hell would we trade up? Packaging Podkolzin with the 11th - maybe? Would Philly make a splash to acquire Miller? Either way, it's hard to fathom. Edited June 22, 2023 by Herberts Vasiljevs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I wish there was a way to get two late/mid picks. Trade our 11ov and our two 3rds to somehow pull off picking up both Danielson and Simashev. I would build an Allvin statue in my backyard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: I listened to Donnie and Dhali's segment and found myself wondering the same as them: How the hell would we trade up? Packaging Podkolzin with the 11th - maybe? Would Philly make a splash to acquire Miller? Either way, it's hard to fathom. We don’t have any blue chip prospects we could trade, nobody wanted to take the players we wanted to trade(I doubt teams 1-10 want them especially) and we can’t really afford to move other high picks. I doubt we move up. More likely we move down IMO which is also unlikely to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, D.B Cooper said: I wish there was a way to get two late/mid picks. Trade our 11ov and our two 3rds to somehow pull off picking up both Danielson and Simashev. I would build an Allvin statue in my backyard Yeah I'm starting to soften up to this train of thought. If we could get two 2nds in a deep draft that would be amazing. Imagine Simashev dropping because of concerns around his Russian status and shot, and we get him in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said: Poll among scouts who's the best defenceman in this year's draft. The outcome is that scouts view Reinbacher as the best defenceman by quite a margin. Reinbacher had 18 votes whereas Simashev got "only" 5 votes. I also like simashev, but you have to take the "russian factor" into consideration. Canucks fans have already experienced the Russian factor with the likes of Tryamkin and Kravtsov (not willing to put in the time and effort to make it in the NHL). How did Rachel Doerrie get a vote? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Nave said: Yeah I'm starting to soften up to this train of thought. If we could get two 2nds in a deep draft that would be amazing. Imagine Simashev dropping because of concerns around his Russian status and shot, and we get him in the 2nd round. If we traded our 11 to Chicago for 19 and a 2nd, that would get us one of them. Then use that 2nd, our two 3rds and whatever else it takes to get into the late mid 1st. NHL19. Ps4. Hell yeah. Hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Toe Drag Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Nave said: Yeah I'm starting to soften up to this train of thought. If we could get two 2nds in a deep draft that would be amazing. Imagine Simashev dropping because of concerns around his Russian status and shot, and we get him in the 2nd round. The top 20 is deep. There is no one saying the whole draft is deep. Second round picks are still roughly 20-30% to be NHLrs. You’re getting a blue chip prospect at C, Wing or D with 11. If you swap with Nashville for 11. You better be getting a Fabbro or significant cap relief. That’s as far down as I would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuietQuitter Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Pure961089 said: Some think Bob has used the same 10 or so scouts since the 90s so they may be old school scouts. The new school scouts put more importance on playing big rather than being big. It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog mentality. Dvorsky for instance shouldn't be this high imo. His Allsvenskin numbers don't justify his high ranking imo. If he had played in the CHL and put up 100 pts, would you think differently of his consensus rankings? Using his Allsvensken numbers doesn't do justice to what his game and potential is about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Toe Drag Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, HighOnHockey said: Tournament? You mean season. Do you watch him play or just see his stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Has Mekenzie put up a top 100 or anything past top 32? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHockey Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 I've been thinking a lot about the perennial debate about floor vs ceiling, or boom-bust vs safe pick, however you want to frame it. Back in 2021 I created a bit of a stir when I ranked Cole Sillinger 5th overall. Somehow this narrative got started early in his draft year that he was this one-dimensional, goal-scoring sensation, and it kinda stuck. Admittedly, it would have been an easy mistake to make just from watching him with an atrocious Sioux Falls team, where he always had to carry the puck and try to take on multiple defenders himself, but for those who'd watched him at U17s or his U17 season with Medicine Hat, we knew that the reason he put up the numbers he did in the Dub was more about what a mature, reliable two-way player he was, as he adapted seamlessly to the higher level and the coach trusted him immediately to play him in the top six with some pretty good offensive players. In a way I was very much proven right when Sillinger made the Blue Jackets at 18, but his D+2 season has me re-thinking some things. Yes, he was a highly mature, dependable two-way forward, but did I put too much emphasis on that aspect, despite limited offensive upside? Part of it was my perceived weakness of the '21 draft that I figured just getting a surefire 2/3C would be better than most of what was available. Pierre Dorion has a very interesting draft philosophy that I've been trying to adopt myself. Say what you will about Dorion as a GM overall, but his draft record speaks for itself. Whenever he is asked in interviews about taking a swing vs the safe pick, he always shrugs off the question, saying they don't think they need to "take a swing" and they think they can get a good player at their position regardless. Going back to his first two picks running the draft - Chabot and Colin White - Chabot clearly turned out great, and White didn't quite pan out the way they hoped, but still ended up a decent bottom six forward with almost 300 games to date. It's easier to say about top 5 picks, but Tkachuk was always going to be at least a Tom Wilson type, with room for more offense. Jake Sanderson was always going to be at least a smooth skating top 4 D a la Cam Fowler, with room for more. Tim Stutzle was always going to be at least a 70-80 point zone-possession wizard a la Matt Barzal, with room for much more. So that's how I've been try to look at the draft in recent years - no need to swing for the fences on boom-bust players, at least certainly not with early picks. But also don't take just take the safe pick. Look for the guy who is a safe pick first and foremost, but also has room for upside. So you can see why I'm so high on Dvorsky this year, as one of the safest picks at the top of the draft, but also may have some serious offensive upside. Other players in this draft that fit the mould would be Ryan Leonard, Nate Danielson, Tom Willander, and these guys will be moving up accordingly in my final ranking. Looking through this lens also helps me try to tackle a couple of the toughest dilemmas I've been having all year - Dvorsky vs Smith, and Carlsson vs Fantilli. For Dvorsky vs Smith - Smith is absolutely the much more likely to hit something close to his ceiling, which would be something akin to Jack Hughes. As an absolute ceiling for Dvorsky, I've mentioned the likes of Kopitar and Draisaitl, but admittedly it seems very unlikely he'll reach that, even to me as his biggest fan. Much more likely is a Brayden Schenn type, but is that his floor? Probably somewhere in that vicinity. But what's Smith's floor? Is there that much difference between his floor and ceiling? 2nd line offensive winger is about the worst case scenario I can imagine for him. So I think Smith is still going to get the edge, because while both have very high floors, Smith seems more likely to hit his ceiling. Carlsson vs Fantilli is even trickier, as I believe completely that Fantilli has the higher floor and Carlsson has the higher ceiling, but the question is, just how high is Carlsson's floor, and just what is Fantilli's ceiling? We think of Fantilli first and foremost as a hard-hitting, two-way center, but with his combination of speed and power, is there even a glimmer of hope his offensive game can end up closer to a Nate MacKinnon? And with Carlsson, is the worst case scenario that he's not a center and ends up more a Mikko Rantanen, or given the hints of off-puck ineptitude, is there even a slight chance he never quite adapts to the NHL game and ends up more a Jesse Puljujarvi? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHockey Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said: Do you watch him play or just see his stats? Over 20 views. I always watch a lot of the NTDP. And besides I didn't mention anything about how I rank him. Just that to say it's based on a single tournament is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamhuis2 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) Hi all, Below are my final rankings for the 1st round of the 2023 draft. It is a good year to have a top-20 pick, with a number of projectable difference-makers. The first round has a few more boom-or-bust prospects than usual, and honestly the grouping from 6-20 could go any way. This is not a mock draft, but if you do have any questions on where I think certain guys end up, let me know! Brief stylistic comparisons and projections included here: Spoiler 2023 1st Round Draft Rankings Player - Position - Potential - Point Projection - Stylistic Comparable - Notes 1. Bedard - C - Top-5 player - 100+ points - Joe Sakic mixed with Patty Kane - Dynamic sniper, sneaky edgework, elite skill. 2. Michkov - RW - Top-5 goalscoer - 100+ points - Nikita Kucherov - Intelligent, high-skilled player who excels at darting into space in the offensive zone. Can score from anywhere. Potential 50 goal scorer. 3. Fantilli - C - Top-10 centre - 90+ points - Jonathan Toews - High-end physical tools + aggressive + solid hockey sense. 4. Carlsson - C/LW - Top-10 centre - 90+ points - Filip Forsberg - High degree of drive + skill. Uses his body to protect the puck very well. I do think he will be a C in the NHL. 5. Smith - C - #1 centre - 80+ points - Trevor Zegras - Creative, controls the pace of the game, which can sometimes cause him to look slow. Can lack on defensive effort, but is an offensive wizard. 6. Benson - LW/RW - Play-driving 1st line winger - 80+ points - Brayden Point - Workhorse with high-end skill. Above average straight-line speed, but elite edges. Small, but tenacious. 7. Leonard - RW/C - Complementary 1st line winer - 70 points - Zach Parise - Elite motor, high-end shot and puck skills. Good two-way player who plays like a smaller power forward. 8. Reinbacher - RD - #2-3 defenceman - 40 points - Alex Pietrangelo - Above-average puck skills. Very good distance passer and decision maker. Above average skater with room to improve pivots. Great reach and overall defensive play. 9. Simashev - LD - #2-3 shutdown defenceman - 25 points - K'Andre Miller - Big shutdown defenceman with a good stick, above average skating & physicality, and some offensive upside. Potential the best defensive player in the draft. 10. Dvorsky - C - High-end #2 centre - 60 points - Bo Horvat - Advanced defensive game, great shot, but needs time to get it off. Above average puck skills. Heavy feet, but ok speed once he gets going. 11. Moore - C - High-end #2 centre - 60 points - Dylan Larkin - Best skater in the draft, with a willingness to play inside the dots. Good puck skills and passing. Above average hockey IQ. 12. Barlow - LW - 1st/2nd line power forward - 60 points - Mason McTavish - High-end shot and physical tools. Plays a direct game with above-average skating. Above-average hockey IQ, but probably won't be the primary creator on his line. 13. Wood - LW - 1st line power forward or bust - 75+ points or bust - Jason Robertson - High-end tools, including shot, size, and puck skills. Incredibly intelligent player. Below-average acceleration and average top speed. Skating could limit his upside, or he could become the next Jason Robertson. 14. Willander - RD - #3-4 two-way defenceman - 30 points - Anton Stralman - Very efficient player with good mobility, decision-making, and passing. Isn't flashy, but always seems to make the right play. Could improve his 15. Danielson - C - #2 two-way centre - 50 points - Anthony Cirelli - Prototypical two-way #2C. Very responsible player who is a jack of all trades. Good, but not great at everything. 16. Perrault - RW - Complimentary 1st line winger - 60 points - Jake Guentzel - Not the biggest or the fastest, but the hockey IQ is near the top of the class, and he has good skill. Wide spread on this player, but he's too smart to fail. 17. Yager - C/W - 2nd line sniper - 55 points - Mike Hoffman - Great shot and good skating, but plays a bit too much on the perimeter, leading to inconsistencies in creating. Average/above-average hockey IQ. 18. Sandin-Pellikka - RD - Offensive #3 defenceman or bust - 50+ points - Quinn Hughes - Elite skater, including great four-way mobility. Play-driver from the backend, with good vision and passing. Typically good decision-making; prone to some lapses. Average defensively. 19. Honzek - C/LW - 2nd line powerforward - 50 points - Danius Zubrus - Plus size and above-average skating. Doesn't shy away from the middle of the ice, especially the front of the net. Can be inconsistent and needs to work on his defensive play. 20. But - LW - Top-6 power forward or bust - 50+ points or bust - Evgeni Malkin - Massive physical player with good puck skills and a hard, but inaccurate shot. He's very raw, and has an awkward stride that doesn't generate much power, leading to poor acceleration but decent top speed. Honestly could go anywhere from 10-50. 21. Cristell - LW - Complementary 1st line winger or bust - 75+ points or bust - Claude Giroux - Elite puck skills, highly creative. Fantastic passer with a great shot. One of the best players in the offensive zone, though he can force plays. Good edges but average separation and top speed. 22. Brindley - RW - 2nd line pest - 50 points - Brad Marchand - Tenacious player with a high-end motor and good puck skills. Great at puck retrievals and keeping plays alive in the offensive zone. 23. Stenburg - C - #2 two-way centre - 50+ points - Philip Danault - Good two-way player with above-average skating and hands. Likes the puck on his stick and excels in transition. Plus shot from range. 24. Heidt - LW/C - 2nd line playmaker - 55 points - Nick Schmaltz - Great passer and playdriver from the centre or wing. Good mobility, especially carrying the puck in transition. He has high-end hockey IQ, and should play C at the next level. Despite low goal totals, he is a good one-timer option on the PP. 25. Musty - LW - Top-6 playmaker or bust - 55+ points or bust - Benoit Pouliot - Above-average individual skill, creativity, and vision. Struggles with inconsistency, physicality, and skating - especially his acceleration. 26. Ritchie - C - #2 two-way centre - 50 points - Ryan O'Reilly - Above average in everything except average skating. 27. Sale - RW - 1st line offensive winger or bust - 65+ points or bust - Taylor Hall - Great individual puck skills and speed. More of a playmaker, but has a good shot - needs to use it more. Very inconsistent - can disappear for games at a time and then look like the best player on the ice. 28. Gulyayev - LD - #4 offensive defenceman or PP specialist - 50+ points - Tyson Barrie - Elite skater with high-end offensive tools, including stickhandling and passing in the offensive zone. Loves to join the rush, and can get back due to his elite speed. In-zone defending and strength need improvement. 29. Sawchyn - C - Middle-six energy forward - 45 points - JG Pageau - High-end motor and good passing, especially in tight spaces. He's a tenacious forechecker who can play higher in the lineup due to his hockey IQ and good skill base, though may be limited by his size. 30. Lindstein - LD - #4 two-way defenceman - 30 points - Henri Jokiharju - Smooth skating defender with a big shot, but can struggle under pressure with his decision-making. 31. Ziemmer - RW - Top-6 power forward - 50 points - Timo Meier - Excellent at using his size to protect the puck and drive the net. Has a great shot, good IQ and passing ability, but can lack explosiveness. 32. Gauthier - RW - Middle-six pest - 40 points - Mike Richards - Good motor, especially on the forecheck. He is relentless, and an intelligent two-way player. Average skating and skills limit upside, but he's hard to play against. Takeaways from my previous Spring ranking: - I've come around on Simashev...he's right up there with Reinbacher as best D in the draft. Both could be complementary 1st pair guys (#2D), or safely carry a 2nd pair (#3D) at worst. - Willander continues to rise. He's easily projectable as a middle-pair dman, probably a #3D, and will get drafted top-15 if not top-10. Floor is close to the other top D, but lacks upside. - Still high on Benson. Guy screams intelligent two-way player. Whoever gets him in the late top-10 or early teens will get a steal. - Honzek and But will go higher than I have them ranked. I like both prospects and they could be argued anywhere after 10/11/12 in my opinion. Bonus: Canuck candidates (in order of how I'd pick them for the team): Benson, Simashev, Moore, Willander, Barlow, Wood. Who do you want the Canucks to draft? Looking forward to the discussion! Edited June 22, 2023 by Hamhuis2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stierlitz Posted June 22, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Has Mekenzie put up a top 100 or anything past top 32? He put up top 96 prospects plus 14 with honorable mention status https://www.tsn.ca/intrigue-and-excitement-in-the-year-of-connor-bedard-at-the-nhl-draft-1.1976262 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, Stierlitz said: He put up top 96 prospects plus 14 with honorable mention status https://www.tsn.ca/intrigue-and-excitement-in-the-year-of-connor-bedard-at-the-nhl-draft-1.1976262 Thanks Stierlitz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granpappy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: I listened to Donnie and Dhali's segment and found myself wondering the same as them: How the hell would we trade up? Packaging Podkolzin with the 11th - maybe? Would Philly make a splash to acquire Miller? Either way, it's hard to fathom. couldnt see podkolzin going anywhere ... he would be exactly the type of player tochett would be targeting if he was on another roster. hopefully all this noise is a smoke screen for picking simashev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hammertime Posted June 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Stierlitz said: He put up top 96 prospects plus 14 with honorable mention status https://www.tsn.ca/intrigue-and-excitement-in-the-year-of-connor-bedard-at-the-nhl-draft-1.1976262 Man those 3rds and 4ths are looking so good right now. There are a ton of players I'm super high on on that range. 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 39 minutes ago, granpappy said: couldnt see podkolzin going anywhere ... he would be exactly the type of player tochett would be targeting if he was on another roster. hopefully all this noise is a smoke screen for picking simashev Yeah, packaging Podz and the 11th would be another absolute bone head move. MAJOR PASS! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 To CLB: Miller 11th Overall Pick To VAN: 3rd Overall Pick (Carlsson) Bean or Peeke Throw in Hoglander or Rathbone as a sweetener if needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Stierlitz said: He put up top 96 prospects plus 14 with honorable mention status https://www.tsn.ca/intrigue-and-excitement-in-the-year-of-connor-bedard-at-the-nhl-draft-1.1976262 Bob McKenzie has Matthew Wood right at 11. And higher than Barlow. If his board drops exactly according to his picks then l will be quite happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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