[Rumour] Canucks Getting Calls on Luke Schenn

[Ghostsof1915]

Reasons to trade:

2nd rounder or better a 1st.  I'll take a late first over a second rounder and a prospect. Unless it's a can't miss prospect.

 

Reasons to keep:

Super low cap it. Low maintenance. Great leadership. Steady. Good inspiration to young players.

He's only 33. He seems faster and more reliable than OEL, who is 2 years younger. Has grit.

 

I'd prefer him to stay. And help any new defencemen transition to the NHL. Maybe even eventually when he hangs them up have him as a coach for Abby.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Ghostsof1915

[Ghostsof1915]

Another point. CDC has been crying for RHD. Here is a cheap, reliable, RHD. That does a little bit of everything.

Yet, CDC's first instinct is to trade him.

I know we want to get younger, and pick up picks.

But I don't think moving Schenn is the answer. Moving forwards like BB, Hogs, Garland, etc. might be the better answer.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Reasons to trade:

2nd rounder or better a 1st.  I'll take a late first over a second rounder and a prospect. Unless it's a can't miss prospect.

 

Reasons to keep:

Super low cap it. Low maintenance. Great leadership. Steady. Good inspiration to young players.

He's only 33. He seems faster and more reliable than OEL, who is 2 years younger. Has grit.

 

I'd prefer him to stay. And help any new defencemen transition to the NHL. Maybe even eventually when he hangs them up have him as a coach for Abby.

What if we extend Schenn for a three year deal at 1.5 per and buyout OEL?  Then Schenn plays OEL’s minutes and (after the buyout cost of two mil per for OEL) we save 3.5 on the cap.  

Hughes, Bear

Dermott, Schenn

Stillman, Myers

Burroughs

[cocanuck]

59 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Another point. CDC has been crying for RHD. Here is a cheap, reliable, RHD. That does a little bit of everything.

Yet, CDC's first instinct is to trade him.

I know we want to get younger, and pick up picks.

But I don't think moving Schenn is the answer. Moving forwards like BB, Hogs, Garland, etc. might be the better answer.

Agree totally but you can only move players that have value to another team..  boeser, garland etc.. are decent players but highly paid and most teams are against the cap.  Schenn can fit anywhere with little against cap.   I would love to trade boeser, garland, myers and oel but not possible.   If the rumor is true for what rangers offered for miller last year, that is the type of decision that sets the franchise back immensely,,  was it ownership?  

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, cocanuck said:

Agree totally but you can only move players that have value to another team..  boeser, garland etc.. are decent players but highly paid and most teams are against the cap.  Schenn can fit anywhere with little against cap.   I would love to trade boeser, garland, myers and oel but not possible.   If the rumor is true for what rangers offered for miller last year, that is the type of decision that sets the franchise back immensely,,  was it ownership?  

Didn’t JR and Allvin sign on for three years?  Hard to trade core players for futures when you will be gone before those futures contribute to the team.  If we were rebuilding through the draft, then I think our owner signs management to longer terms. 

[cocanuck]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t JR and Allvin sign on for three years?  Hard to trade core players for futures when you will be gone before those futures contribute to the team.  If we were rebuilding through the draft, then I think our owner signs management to longer terms. 

Thats a good point,, who knows what agreement is in place and the actual plan is.  It seems short sighted to continue to build for here and now,, when decisions for the long term health and success of the franchise should be paramount

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

What if we extend Schenn for a three year deal at 1.5 per and buyout OEL?  Then Schenn plays OEL’s minutes and (after the buyout cost of two mil per for OEL) we save 3.5 on the cap.  

Hughes, Bear

Dermott, Schenn

Stillman, Myers

Burroughs

Why though?  More dead cap (for 8 years), and all this to gamble that Dermott, after all his injuries (he's missed 1/5 or so, on average, of the seasons he's been in the league) can readily step in and be a regular in the top-4 (and the top pair LD if Hughes goes down with injury) sounds like a risky gamble to me (unless there's another Bedard in the near future, in which sign me up for #TeamTank).    

Edited December 24, 2022 by Phil_314

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Sure, I'll be the first to admit that I cherry picked based on one game - but only because of your wild contention that somehow either of those two playing top-4 is the primary source of our woes.  The real issue is how some of the forwards don't (or perhaps refuse to) play team defence.  Blind passes, passes up the middle, giving up on plays - do this regularly as a forward, and you could have the best top-6 D and goaltender in the world, and the opposition can still make it all look like swiss cheese.

 

I don't disagree that the D needs upgrading, but to put the blame strictly on the composition of the D is somewhat simplistic and doesn't get to the root of the issue.  Now, whether that's an individual player issue or a coaching issue, that's a different discussion for a different day.

Sure, at the end of the day it is a systemic issue that comes down to the structure that we play and the team defensive system that is in place.  You can't blame Miller's blind passes that go astray or giving up on plays for all 5 goals every game for 12 games out of 21.  The issue is much more complicated than that.  Also, we have the worst penalty killing in the league, which has nothing to do with errant blind passes or giving up on plays.  Our Dmen that are on the PK are not very good at PKing.  Bear and Myers are not good penalty killers.  Neither is Burroughs or Stillman and even OEL is average at best.  The only Dman that actually knows how to properly kill penalties is Schenn.

 

If we simply were to fix our PK that would solve 50% of the issue.  The main reason we only let in 2 goals last night is because we held the top PP to zero goals.  That's why the score was 5-2 and not 6-5.  A better structure on the PK with better Dmen will help this team tremendously.

 

I think we have some pretty good defensive forwards, but probably need 1-2 more at minimum.  Like I said already, Bear and Myers are not top 4 Dmen on a legit playoff team, so our top 4 D needs to be upgraded with at least 2 more Dman.  Add a couple more defensive type forwards as well as changing the structure and defensive systems of this team and we are probably a legit playoff team if Demko gets back to form.

 

I don't think we actually have to rebuild this team.  Maybe they will find a way to sign Horvat by dumping salary.  Boeser, Myers, Pearson and Garland would open up some major cap space.  If they could trade those players and dump most of that cap they probably can re-sign Bo to an $7.5-8 million deal.  We will see what happens.

[IBatch]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:49 PM, Alflives said:

What if we extend Schenn for a three year deal at 1.5 per and buyout OEL?  Then Schenn plays OEL’s minutes and (after the buyout cost of two mil per for OEL) we save 3.5 on the cap.  

Hughes, Bear

Dermott, Schenn

Stillman, Myers

Burroughs

Buying out OEL... I'd rather we demote him.   Four more years versus 8 more.   Maybe near the end of his deal, depending on how things look, we buy him out.   To me the system is flawed.  No carrot.   Giving UFAs legacy deals heavily front loaded.    It needs to stop league wide.   No carrot.   Maybe IF a ton of money was still on the line ... then buyouts become less of an issue.   It ends up screwing with the cap and escrow.    The bulk or majority of the NHLPA doesn't get those deals either - so could see the lower class citizens agreeing to this next CBA.    The way it is now - better more competent vets either take peanuts later, or retire - and books get balanced with guys who either need more time in the AHL, or well simply AHLers.   Deals need to be shortened by one year - both RFA and UFA ones.    It would also make the extra year players can sign with their existing teams more significant.   A six year versus a 7 UFA and a 7 year max second deal.    Too much risk is carried by both the teams and the NHLPA.   

 

Edit:  Re-sign or trade Schenn is a must either way. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by IBatch

[canuck73_3]

On 12/24/2022 at 8:27 AM, cocanuck said:

I guess it comes down to how it is handled by management..  it is rare but can happen

If Schenn wants to stay which by all info out there he does, they should just sign him. 

[Alflives]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

If Schenn wants to stay which by all info out there he does, they should just sign him. 

Yup.  A two year term.  Not too sure how much though?  1.2 per?  

[coryberg]

14 hours ago, IBatch said:

Buying out OEL... I'd rather we demote him.   Four more years versus 8 more.

OEL has a NMC, that means "no move" as in you need his permission in order to remove him from the roster, be it trade or demotion.

 

Even if you could bury him in the AHL you would only be saving $1,150,000 on the cap. Although his play might not warrant 7.26 million it is certainly closer to that than 1.15 million.

[‹(•¿•)›]

On 12/24/2022 at 9:49 AM, Alflives said:

What if we extend Schenn for a three year deal at 1.5 per and buyout OEL?  Then Schenn plays OEL’s minutes and (after the buyout cost of two mil per for OEL) we save 3.5 on the cap.  

Hughes, Bear

Dermott, Schenn

Stillman, Myers

Burroughs

That D is terrible,  we need to be aiming higher.

[iinatcc]

8 hours ago, coryberg said:

OEL has a NMC, that means "no move" as in you need his permission in order to remove him from the roster, be it trade or demotion.

 

Even if you could bury him in the AHL you would only be saving $1,150,000 on the cap. Although his play might not warrant 7.26 million it is certainly closer to that than 1.15 million.

I wonder why OEL would choose Vancouver as one of the two teams he would waive his NMC for? Maybe if Canucks can find a reason why use that to find a team he might like.

With any luck Jim Benning might be hired as the GM of that team 

[iinatcc]

13 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

If Schenn wants to stay which by all info out there he does, they should just sign him. 

what about trade then sign back during the offseason? 

[Boudrias]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  A two year term.  Not too sure how much though?  1.2 per?  

If PA is offered a 2nd or hopefully a 1st then he has to trade Schenn. I appreciate his leadership and what he means in the locker room. Hopefully he would return as a UFA. Canucks are desperate for picks. Might need a Scheen pick to throw into a deal that brings a top 4 RD back to the org. 

[Gawdzukes]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:47 AM, Ghostsof1915 said:

Another point. CDC has been crying for RHD. Here is a cheap, reliable, RHD. That does a little bit of everything.

Yet, CDC's first instinct is to trade him.

I know we want to get younger, and pick up picks.

But I don't think moving Schenn is the answer. Moving forwards like BB, Hogs, Garland, etc. might be the better answer.

I think moving everyone possible who doesn't fit the long-term or is UFA is the answer. Enough trying to force this roster to be better than it is. Time to gain assets and revamp.

[canucklehead44]

21 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think moving everyone possible who doesn't fit the long-term or is UFA is the answer. Enough trying to force this roster to be better than it is. Time to gain assets and revamp.

We can trade Schenn and re-sign him in the offseason. Give him a chance at another cup and bring him back. His value is high right now too. +5 on a bad team, 10 points, playing over 17 minutes per game, physical vet with a dirt cheap salary, leading the league in hits by a fairly wide margin at 159 - the next best defenseman has 110. That is enormous. Also being a righty - he would be an excellent addition to any team making a run. 

 

[Alflives]

27 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think moving everyone possible who doesn't fit the long-term or is UFA is the answer. Enough trying to force this roster to be better than it is. Time to gain assets and revamp.

That’s exactly what the management has been doing.  They have a core five (Demko, Petey, Hughes, Miller, Bo) the rest are supporting cast and will be moved at TDLs, if they have value.  So Schenn will be moved, unless he will agree to a new contract that fits into the cap allocation for what he provides in a supporting role. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, canucklehead44 said:

We can trade Schenn and re-sign him in the offseason. Give him a chance at another cup and bring him back. His value is high right now too. +5 on a bad team, 10 points, playing over 17 minutes per game, physical vet with a dirt cheap salary, leading the league in hits by a fairly wide margin at 159 - the next best defenseman has 110. That is enormous. Also being a righty - he would be an excellent addition to any team making a run. 

 

Yeah, definitely a top commodity for a playoff team. And he is a a rare candidate who might be happy coming right back to the team.