[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[DownUndaCanuck]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This is true.  But do you pay a player $8.5 million a year to be a support piece and not put up points?  At $5.5 million it's totally fine to be a top end 3C who can do all the little things.  At $8.5 million you need to be a core player and a play driver.  BO isn't any of those things.  

The contract is a whale of a deal and sure, it's a lot of money coming off a career performance, but at the end of the day - he's their first line center. You pay the man. Deals are going up and up by the year. If Petey is going to get a solid 10-11M contract next, 8.5M sounds fair for Bo. He produces around 25-50% less than Petey (we'll see depending on how the year ends) but is better at faceoffs and stronger physically than Petey for whatever that's worth.

 

If I was an Islander fan I wouldn't be mad with the trade or signing. They needed scoring and they needed a true first line center. Bo doesn't score as much as most, but then either did Ryan O'Reilly, Kopitar or Toews when they won their cups. Those teams were built around solid two-way centers and NYI preaches that well. It's a great system and mould they have, and for once players are getting paid not just for their offence (although it happened to be after he exploded offensively...).

 

They've got a lot of older forwards in that lineup who aren't getting better, bringing Bo in to play with Barzal for the next solid 5+ years is a great move to tie the older crew to the younger generation and stretch this playoff window a bit more, plus they have cap space to make this move (with Varlamov coming off the books).

 

Seems like an over-pay, but who else can you get who can play solid defensively to fit their structure and play as a first line center? There's no one good in free agency and you don't see many teams offering up mid to late 20 year old top line centers so Lou cashed in when he saw the chance.

[Diamonds]

Can we stop with the ridiculous "Bo is just a good 3C" crap? He is a consistent 30g 60p player, one of top faceoff guys in the league, and can play all situations. He is a 2C and has been one since 2016-17. No, he is not a consistent PPG guy and yes, 8.5M is an overpayment that I wouldn't want on this team. He was worth 6.5M-7M and if we offered him that in the summer he probably would have accepted. 

 

However, at the end of the day we traded him to a team that we only see twice a year and no longer have the pick that was part of the trade. We can thank him for his time here, the work he did in the community, his having to captain some horribly mismanaged teams, and wish him the best. I'm glad we didn't overpay him and we can now look forward to the pieces that we got back and move on.

[The Lock]

The fact that this thread's still going as strong as it has amuses me a bit. I can only imagine it's the same things rehashed over and over for pages on pages.

 

And no, I don't care to read all of it anymore. I have my sanity I need to keep.

Edited March 23, 2023 by The Lock

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He's worth more than $5.5 million if he's putting more than 55-60 points.  If he's at the same point production next year as he is now with the Islanders then he's basically a high end 3C.  Perhaps he can get back to a 60-point level next year playing with Barzal...

I might be wrong but tend to think that if they (Islanders) are paying him that kind of coin, it isn't to be playing on the typical 3rd line/exclusively defensive center (which he isn't that great at either, not to say he's a defensive liability but he's "adequate").  He's shown already chemistry with Barzal so I would assume that is their intention for the future.  And he'll pile up points imho when paired up with Barzal.  Much like how Boeser would be lucky to get 20 goals/20 assists on our team if he didn't have either elite forward on his line (Miller and/or EP).

[Baggins]

11 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I know a lot's been made about Bo's drop in production, but look at where the Islanders are. Before the trade I think they were on the outside of a playoff spot and had played like 3-4 more games than the wild card teams. Then Barzal gets injured. Now they're +17 on the season, safely in the first wildcard spot and no teams really have games in hand on them anymore. 

 

Say what you want about the individuals but you've got to give credit to Lou, this trade fired up the team and they've been winning a fair bit with Bo in the lineup. 

 

Go figure, superficial fans and media will blaze this trade but the Islanders have been a much more solid overall team with Bo and far better balanced. They've always been strong defensively and they won't score goals as the Canucks do, but they're winning and they're in a playoff spot which is what matters most.

 

I still take this as a win-win trade but Lou won it more because look where his team is right now. Without Bo, their forward group crumbles. Surprise surprise, there's more to hockey than just scoring goals and points but simple fans will never recognise this.

Many have said our current winning ways are due to OEL being injured. Shortly after Horvat arrived Barzal was injured. 1 + 1 = ? 

 

All teams go through streaks. Even contenders. The Isles were a couple of points out of a wild card spot and are now a few points into one. Personally I think the real inprovement for the Isles is the what rather than the who. They gave up a winger for a very reliable two way center that is also very good at faceoffs. As much as they're happy with the results I'd wager they're also rather disappointed in his production drop. Whether he's actually worth his $8.5m long term is yet to be seen.

 

Trading Hoprvat led to Hronek. Miller bounced between wing and C. So we already had a guy to take Bo's 2c spot, but really needed a top RHD. We added a top 6 winger while making Miller full time C. Meaning at very worst a status quo in our top 6. Plus added legit top 4 RHD we desperately needed. I'd call it a win for both teams. Who the biggest winner is time will tell. But I'm leaning towards us because I really don't believe Bo is worth that 8.5m.

[Baggins]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He's worth more than $5.5 million if he's putting more than 55-60 points.  If he's at the same point production next year as he is now with the Islanders then he's basically a high end 3C.  Perhaps he can get back to a 60-point level next year playing with Barzal...

Obviously he's worth more than $5.5m. How NHL negotiations work....

 

Player: start high

Team: start low

Then try to find acceptable to both in the middle.

 

Team: what kind of money is Horvat looking for?

Agent: $8.5m, he's team captain and should be paid more than Miller.

Team: He's not Miller, so $5.5m

Then the real negotiations begin. 

[GhostsOf1994]

49 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Can we stop with the ridiculous "Bo is just a good 3C" crap? He is a consistent 30g 60p player, one of top faceoff guys in the league, and can play all situations. He is a 2C and has been one since 2016-17. No, he is not a consistent PPG guy and yes, 8.5M is an overpayment that I wouldn't want on this team. He was worth 6.5M-7M and if we offered him that in the summer he probably would have accepted. 

 

However, at the end of the day we traded him to a team that we only see twice a year and no longer have the pick that was part of the trade. We can thank him for his time here, the work he did in the community, his having to captain some horribly mismanaged teams, and wish him the best. I'm glad we didn't overpay him and we can now look forward to the pieces that we got back and move on.

Consistent 30g guy? this is is 2nd time hitting that number or above.

 

his points per game have dipped drastically and it will be a surprise if he ever puts up 30+ goals again.

 

since the trade he has 9 points in 20 gp and is -2

 

simple math, 9 points in 20gp x 4 = 36pts over 80gp and -8.

 

I think myself and others have stated Bo seems to be a better winger option that has faceoff prowess, and that excels at the bumper play on the PP.

 

he's not a play driver and doesn't use his wingers as well as one would hope. top centers should have more assists than goals.(indicates usage line mates) his power play goals have dried up also, 1 in 20 gp since the trade vs 11 in 49 with Vancouver. 

 

Of the top 50 centers by points on nhl.com, only Horvat, Schiefele, Verhaege, Point and Aho have more goals than assists.

 

not trying to doodoo on Horvat or anyone's appreciation of him, we all saw him develop and become the player he is today. he's a great human and a heck of a hockey player.

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Many have said our current winning ways are due to OEL being injured. Shortly after Horvat arrived Barzal was injured. 1 + 1 = ? 

 

All teams go through streaks. Even contenders. The Isles were a couple of points out of a wild card spot and are now a few points into one. Personally I think the real inprovement for the Isles is the what rather than the who. They gave up a winger for a very reliable two way center that is also very good at faceoffs. As much as they're happy with the results I'd wager they're also rather disappointed in his production drop. Whether he's actually worth his $8.5m long term is yet to be seen.

 

Trading Hoprvat led to Hronek. Miller bounced between wing and C. So we already had a guy to take Bo's 2c spot, but really needed a top RHD. We added a top 6 winger while making Miller full time C. Meaning at very worst a status quo in our top 6. Plus added legit top 4 RHD we desperately needed. I'd call it a win for both teams. Who the biggest winner is time will tell. But I'm leaning towards us because I really don't believe Bo is worth that 8.5m.

He isn't imho (and I'm a fan of his).

Edited March 23, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Smashian Kassian]

Bo was never worth the contract he got. He's become a great goal scorer but hes not a primary point producer or Selke level C. 

 

If you accept they felt it necessary to keep one of them, I think the Canucks made the right call. JT is a better player (has passed Horvat in points again this season) & signed a cheaper contract.

 

Turning Horvat into the assets they got - particularly a 25 y/o #2/3 RHD in Hronek - is great work. Also Raty has legit upside & Beauvillier has been rehabilitated into someone that should get them back a legit asset as a salary retained rental.

 

I think they've handled it well. Not trying to crap on Bo as he was my favourite player at one point but I didn't think he was worth more than 7.25M x 8 before the season & I didn't think his breakout scoring pace was the new norm - which seems to be the case. 

 

[SilentSam]

12 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Can we stop with the ridiculous "Bo is just a good 3C" crap? He is a consistent 30g 60p player, one of top faceoff guys in the league, and can play all situations. He is a 2C and has been one since 2016-17. No, he is not a consistent PPG guy and yes, 8.5M is an overpayment that I wouldn't want on this team. He was worth 6.5M-7M and if we offered him that in the summer he probably would have accepted. 

 

However, at the end of the day we traded him to a team that we only see twice a year and no longer have the pick that was part of the trade. We can thank him for his time here, the work he did in the community, his having to captain some horribly mismanaged teams, and wish him the best. I'm glad we didn't overpay him and we can now look forward to the pieces that we got back and move on.

What we got in a return is a present day upgrade of 2 players,  1 of those in the position of D that totally outweighs Horvats worth,  and in Beauviller, a Forward that gathers as many points as Horvat.

We also acquired a promising aggressive Center in Raty , who might turn out to be a 2C or better.

 

If the Captain of a Team is only so good,

how does a team push him out of the way to become better themselves.

We can say the Teams were mismanaged,  but  Horvat was not spectacular.

 

[Harold Drunken]

7 hours ago, SilentSam said:

What we got in a return is a present day upgrade of 2 players,  1 of those in the position of D that totally outweighs Horvats worth,  and in Beauviller, a Forward that gathers as many points as Horvat.

We also acquired a promising aggressive Center in Raty , who might turn out to be a 2C or better.

 

If the Captain of a Team is only so good,

how does a team push him out of the way to become better themselves.

We can say the Teams were mismanaged,  but  Horvat was not spectacular.

 

Beavillier is almost doubling Horvats point total thus far with thiernew team. Horvat only has 9 points in 20 games. Not surprising i figured Bo playing in a very defense first system would have that effect 

[canucklehead44]

Bo should end up at around 68 points this season and Beauvillier at 46. Both players are about equal when it comes to being above their career points per 82 game average. 

 

In hindsight, trading a 68 point upcoming free agent who we cant afford to re-sign for a 46 point player who is two years younger, 1 year left on his contract, and an RFA is essentially a win-win deal just looking at Bo for Beau straight up. 

Despite rather unsavoury results it actaully feels like this management team has a plan in place and when you look at the entirity of their moves they make sense. Benning on the otherhand seemed to haphazardly throw big money at declining players or made trades that didn't make any sense. 

Players out:
Horvat 
Schenn
Lazar
Dickinson

Average age: 28.7
Estimated cap hit: 13 million

Players in:
Beauvillier
Bear
Hronek 
Raty

Average age: 23.7
Estimated cap hit: 11.5 million

The picks & Josh Bloom more or less even themselves out.

So we got around 5 years younger, saved about 1.5M in cap, and become much better on the back-end but lost some centre depth. 

[eeeeergh]

Islander fans starting to realize what we already knew.

 

Hes a better player than he's showing at the moment, but not worth the contract.

 

Sorry Islanders, you didn't get the 1C you thought you were getting. 

 

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

Bo should end up at around 68 points this season and Beauvillier at 46. Both players are about equal when it comes to being above their career points per 82 game average. 

 

In hindsight, trading a 68 point upcoming free agent who we cant afford to re-sign for a 46 point player who is two years younger, 1 year left on his contract, and an RFA is essentially a win-win deal just looking at Bo for Beau straight up. 

Despite rather unsavoury results it actaully feels like this management team has a plan in place and when you look at the entirity of their moves they make sense. Benning on the otherhand seemed to haphazardly throw big money at declining players or made trades that didn't make any sense. 

Players out:
Horvat 
Schenn
Lazar
Dickinson

Average age: 28.7
Estimated cap hit: 13 million

Players in:
Beauvillier
Bear
Hronek 
Raty

Average age: 23.7
Estimated cap hit: 11.5 million

The picks & Josh Bloom more or less even themselves out.

So we got around 5 years younger, saved about 1.5M in cap, and become much better on the back-end but lost some centre depth. 

If we manage to snag Barbashev and Gavrikov as per the rumor, we're a pretty decent playoff team. Not top of the league, but we could do some damage. 

 

From there, improving the team will get monumentally more difficult. At that point we've presumably moved out Myers and one of Garland/Boeser. 

 

The last albatross will be OEL if he doesn't turn back the clock, and we'll need to find cap room for raises for underpaid guys (Kuzmenko, Petey, etc.)

[HKSR]

30 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Islander fans starting to realize what we already knew.

 

Hes a better player than he's showing at the moment, but not worth the contract.

 

Sorry Islanders, you didn't get the 1C you thought you were getting. 

 

What forum is that from?

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

What forum is that from?

https://forums.hfboards.com/forums/new-york-islanders.22/

[tas]

2 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

If we manage to snag Barbashev and Gavrikov as per the rumor, we're a pretty decent playoff team. Not top of the league, but we could do some damage. 

 

From there, improving the team will get monumentally more difficult. At that point we've presumably moved out Myers and one of Garland/Boeser. 

 

The last albatross will be OEL if he doesn't turn back the clock, and we'll need to find cap room for raises for underpaid guys (Kuzmenko, Petey, etc.)

why is cdc suddenly on board with giving too much term and money to ufas in their late 20s? just because of the whole russian fetish thing?

[eeeeergh]

Just now, tas said:

why is cdc suddenly on board with giving too much term and money to ufas in their late 20s? just because of the whole russian fetish thing?

Barbashev is a great penalty killing 3c, and hes 27

Gavrikov is a top-4 shutdown/defensive defenseman and hes 27

 

Desperate needs for our team, that if filled, make us a good playoff team. 

 

Every team including the top teams in the league today add top talent through UFA. 

[tas]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

Barbashev is a great penalty killing 3c, and hes 27

Gavrikov is a top-4 shutdown/defensive defenseman and hes 27

 

Desperate needs for our team, that if filled, make us a good playoff team. 

 

Every team including the top teams in the league today add top talent through UFA. 

they both turn 28 next season. 

 

it's not my issue, you don't need to convince me. I'm just curious about the logic since it's exactly what the majority have been shrieking about all along. 

[eeeeergh]

3 minutes ago, tas said:

they both turn 28 next season. 

 

it's not my issue, you don't need to convince me. I'm just curious about the logic since it's exactly what the majority have been shrieking about all along. 

Agreed most have

 

Ive been on board with it for a while now. The problem isnt and has never been UFA signings. Great players can be found in UFA. The problem is signing the wrong UFAs. 

For example - signing Klingberg would be a huge L. Dont want him. Gavrikov, big W.