Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Bure_Pavel]

The secrecy of this aliment means its probably very personal, hopefully he wasnt stickhandling where he shouldnt have.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Bure_Pavel

[Alflives]

17 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

Wow that's stretching it Alf, that's a darn wild view of things considering your basing this on not one fact. This guy has been playing in North America for along time now and I would like to think long past being home sick

Ya, good point.  He played for the Knights in London.  I forgot about that.  Maybe he's tired of Utica NY though?  Maybe he is thinking about going to play in Finland?

[theo5789]

They were just installing a new prototype bionic knee. He's going to be stronger and faster and more aloofer than ever before.

[Ihatetomatoes]

14 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Actually people would more accurately report that he was put in mentoring and more defensive, sheltering role to allow Mete to free wheel offensively.

People who were looking for excuses would report that. Most London fans were just disappointed with his play saying he looked lazy and uninspired. Wasn't playing solid D and offensively being outshone by Mete who was playing like he wanted it.

 

I've always found with prospects that as soon as the excuses start coming out it's a good sign that the prospect isn't progressing and isn't going to live up to the hype. Whether it's deployment, change of teams, weak teammates or conspiracies that the coach has a vendetta against the player so he's playing him on the second line. Soon as we start looking for outside reasons for lackluster play it's usually a strong sign that that player isn't progressing in development like expected. 

[gameburn]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Ya, good point.  He played for the Knights in London.  I forgot about that.  Maybe he's tired of Utica NY though?  Maybe he is thinking about going to play in Finland?

I don't know.  He has to know that he'd be on the big team now loving the big life if it weren't for injuries.  He and Hughes (along with Myers and Tanev) look fantastic for the next few years.  And if Woo keeps progressing, then they have what they need.  Fantenberg was good last game, surprisingly good, which suggests that the team is pretty good at getting decent D to add to the D core.   What I'm saying is that Juolevi has to be seeing good stuff that he can't wait to be part of.  He will also have a pretty realistic sense of how good he is, how much ice time he can expect when he does come up, even whether he is 2nd pp unit material (or even first.)   

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, gameburn said:

I don't know.  He has to know that he'd be on the big team now loving the big life if it weren't for injuries.  He and Hughes (along with Myers and Tanev) look fantastic for the next few years.  And if Woo keeps progressing, then they have what they need.  Fantenberg was good last game, surprisingly good, which suggests that the team is pretty good at getting decent D to add to the D core.   What I'm saying is that Juolevi has to be seeing good stuff that he can't wait to be part of.  He will also have a pretty realistic sense of how good he is, how much ice time he can expect when he does come up, even whether he is 2nd pp unit material (or even first.)   

Excellent post.  I think you're bang on.  OJ needed to come to Vancouver to get a taste of where he will soon be.  Maybe it's the carrot he needed to be dangled?

[aGENT]

45 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

People who were looking for excuses would report that. Most London fans were just disappointed with his play saying he looked lazy and uninspired. Wasn't playing solid D and offensively being outshone by Mete who was playing like he wanted it.

 

I've always found with prospects that as soon as the excuses start coming out it's a good sign that the prospect isn't progressing and isn't going to live up to the hype. Whether it's deployment, change of teams, weak teammates or conspiracies that the coach has a vendetta against the player so he's playing him on the second line. Soon as we start looking for outside reasons for lackluster play it's usually a strong sign that that player isn't progressing in development like expected. 

Or, you know, context.

[Ray_Cathode]

16 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

You are not correct. The year after his draft there were plenty of people who watched him on the daily say his play regressed or at least stagnated. He was put on the second pairing and his scoring didn't progress. People will point out that the team lost key players as an excuse for his scoring but Victor Mete played on the same team and took over top pairing duties while also having his scoring increase. 

 

There have been many warning flags about Juolevi's development without the injuries, they just make it even worse. 

I'm not usually a guy that is over optimistic about Juolevi, but in fairness to him, that was not why he was put on the second pairing.  His story is like Rathbone's in that regard.  Juolevi's junior team had a young player with strong offense but weak defensively, so they used the young guy on the first pairing, and put Juolevi on the second pairing to look after defensive responsibilities - and at the junior level, Juolevi excelled at that role.  He pretty much maintained his offensive output, but also took on the enhanced defensive responsibilities.  The next season, he went back to Finland, and after a tough season start went on to have a fine season that included leading the Finish team in the world junior series. The next season he came to Utica and began the season putting up strong offensive numbers, but struggled defensively.  About a dozen games in he tweaked something, but continued for a few more games until they diagnozed his knee problem.  This year he came back more focused on his defensive game, he was given much more defensive responsibility, like PK and defending against the other team's top unit.  His offensive production dropped off, but then he had less opportunity considering his role - but the team thrived.  The last game he played, as I recall, ended early after he had blocked a shot.

In my opinion, staying healthy at sports is a learned skill that is prefaced with sound training. Looking at Juolevi's injury record, I have to question his training - or perhaps his has the misfortune to be unlucky or to be fragile. Houston, he has a problem, pick a cause or identify something that hasn't been considered.

[Ihatetomatoes]

7 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I'm not usually a guy that is over optimistic about Juolevi, but in fairness to him, that was not why he was put on the second pairing.  His story is like Rathbone's in that regard.  Juolevi's junior team had a young player with strong offense but weak defensively, so they used the young guy on the first pairing, and put Juolevi on the second pairing to look after defensive responsibilities - and at the junior level, Juolevi excelled at that role.  He pretty much maintained his offensive output, but also took on the enhanced defensive responsibilities.  The next season, he went back to Finland, and after a tough season start went on to have a fine season that included leading the Finish team in the world junior series. The next season he came to Utica and began the season putting up strong offensive numbers, but struggled defensively.  About a dozen games in he tweaked something, but continued for a few more games until they diagnozed his knee problem.  This year he came back more focused on his defensive game, he was given much more defensive responsibility, like PK and defending against the other team's top unit.  His offensive production dropped off, but then he had less opportunity considering his role - but the team thrived.  The last game he played, as I recall, ended early after he had blocked a shot.

In my opinion, staying healthy at sports is a learned skill that is prefaced with sound training. Looking at Juolevi's injury record, I have to question his training - or perhaps his has the misfortune to be unlucky or to be fragile. Houston, he has a problem, pick a cause or identify something that hasn't been considered.

"His story is like Rathbone's in that regard.  Juolevi's junior team had a young player with strong offense but weak defensively, so they used the young guy on the first pairing, and put Juolevi on the second pairing to look after defensive responsibilities - and at the junior level, Juolevi excelled at that role.  He pretty much maintained his offensive output, but also took on the enhanced defensive responsibilities"

 

Not sure how it relates to Rathbone. Fox was just older and better. Rathbone wasn't on the second pairing to babysit a young player, he was the young player. Unless that's what you're trying to point out.

 

I do understand why they put Juolevi on the second pairing but if you were paying attention that season London fans were just not impressed at all with Juolevi's play. He didn't excel in the role he was given and was outshone both offensively and defensively by Mete. It's revisionist history to say Juolevi excelled in the role he was put in. 

 

As for his play in Finland he did start to play well come playoffs but he struggled a lot during the season. Yes it's understandable as he's adjusting to pro hockey but all I'm trying to point out is that there were reg flags with Juolevi's development before he started racking up the injuries. 

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, gameburn said:

I don't know.  He has to know that he'd be on the big team now loving the big life if it weren't for injuries.  He and Hughes (along with Myers and Tanev) look fantastic for the next few years.  And if Woo keeps progressing, then they have what they need.  Fantenberg was good last game, surprisingly good, which suggests that the team is pretty good at getting decent D to add to the D core.   What I'm saying is that Juolevi has to be seeing good stuff that he can't wait to be part of.  He will also have a pretty realistic sense of how good he is, how much ice time he can expect when he does come up, even whether he is 2nd pp unit material (or even first.)   

There has been nothing to indicate that he would have been an NHL player right now if not for injuries ....He's obviously had dreadful luck with injuries, and hasn't really been healthy for over two years....but those defensive inconsistencies have always been there.

[higgyfan]

19 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

In my opinion, staying healthy at sports is a learned skill that is prefaced with sound training. Looking at Juolevi's injury record, I have to question his training - or perhaps his has the misfortune to be unlucky or to be fragile. Houston, he has a problem, pick a cause or identify something that hasn't been considered.

I've always questioned his training.  Of course it's a viscous cycle, what with all the injuries tempering his training in the off season. 

 

When he's healthy, he plays well and usually puts up a solid play off performance.  Still hopeful that he will come through all this, but I have to admit that my enthusiasm is starting to wane.

[gameburn]

4 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

There has been nothing to indicate that he would have been an NHL player right now if not for injuries ....He's obviously had dreadful luck with injuries, and hasn't really been healthy for over two years....but those defensive inconsistencies have always been there.

He was putting up points in Utica before his last injury.  They got him for offense.  I too thought he looked a bit vulnerable defensively in the pre-season. 

We've been told by every coach around that it's usually easier to learn defensive skills than offensive ones.  Whether he is at the NHL level can only be known for sure by trying him out a bit.  I agree that we don't want a sub-standard defender on the D.  

[Sbriggs]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Ya, good point.  He played for the Knights in London.  I forgot about that.  Maybe he's tired of Utica NY though?  Maybe he is thinking about going to play in Finland?

I think he'd be righting off his potential NHL career if he went home, & I don't think he's ready for that yet. Lets see what actually happened before we start assuming wild speculation on his future

[Alflives]

Just now, Sbriggs said:

I think he'd be righting off his potential NHL career if he went home, & I don't think he's ready for that yet. Lets see what actually happened before we start assuming wild speculation on his future

Considering we haven't heard what actually happened, do you think we will?  

[dpn1]

1 hour ago, gameburn said:

He was putting up points in Utica before his last injury.  They got him for offense.  I too thought he looked a bit vulnerable defensively in the pre-season. 

We've been told by every coach around that it's usually easier to learn defensive skills than offensive ones.  Whether he is at the NHL level can only be known for sure by trying him out a bit.  I agree that we don't want a sub-standard defender on the D.  

In his last 4 or 5 games he was playing well defensively and was blocking a lot of shots as well. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

In his last 4 or 5 games he was playing well defensively and was blocking a lot of shots as well. 

OJ is going to be a really good top four D man, when he is fully matured both physically and emotionally.  He is only 21.  I expect him in our lineup before this season ends, and really growing as an NHL player.  

[VegasCanuck]

If he's back with the Comets and skating, then it points to Canucks just being overly cautious with him due to the issues from the past couple of years. Might have tweaked something and they just wanted to make sure it was being diagnosed properly.

 

If he can get a couple of good injury free months in with the Comets, I believe he's nearly NHL ready on his overall game. Everything crossed that he still pulls it together.

 

[gameburn]

5 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

In his last 4 or 5 games he was playing well defensively and was blocking a lot of shots as well. 

I wonder sometimes if the shot-blocking thing should be dealt with differently. I don't see Hughes performing like Pinata; maybe there's a way to teach players to defend without getting hit by the puck so much. Maybe the equipment will improve in the future to make it a viable skill for a defender, but... now?... 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, gameburn said:

I wonder sometimes if the shot-blocking thing should be dealt with differently. I don't see Hughes performing like Pinata; maybe there's a way to teach players to defend without getting hit by the puck so much. Maybe the equipment will improve in the future to make it a viable skill for a defender, but... now?... 

It's almost like the players prove their toughness by blocking shots.  It's part of the hockey culture I think.  

[dpn1]

1 minute ago, gameburn said:

I wonder sometimes if the shot-blocking thing should be dealt with differently. I don't see Hughes performing like Pinata; maybe there's a way to teach players to defend without getting hit by the puck so much. Maybe the equipment will improve in the future to make it a viable skill for a defender, but... now?... 

Didn't they say they were doing some work on Tanev's equipment this year?  I wonder if it is helping Chris with blocking shots?