[Signing] Tyler Myers to Vancouver

[Tystick]

Just now, MystifyNCrucify said:

Its not miller people have questions about. 

 

Its aquilini going on record saying “dark days are done”, jim sacrificing a first rounder (drafting being the managements obvious strength) to get yet another middle six player, while now probably having to double down and overpay a free agent defenseman. Those assets should have been used to upgrade the defense. 

 

Subsequently, the canucks have too many forwards, spooner eriksson Baertschi goldobin sutter schaller, that he needs to make room for or ship out. 

 

The other gms are smelling blood in the water, and the agents to those free agent defensemen are dreaming of dead presidents. 

 

I think the draft didnt go down near how they thought. I think plan A was to get barrie or Ristolainen. Plan B was to draft Seider. Plan C was broberg. 

 

Then we go all the way down to plan M for miller. 

 

Screams desperation to me. 

Well the dark days are done because we've drafted well enough that we have a young core moving forward. Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes, and Demko. So he's not wrong in saying that.

I don't mind the argument that the 1st should have been used for a defenseman, that's fair. That said, it's literally been one day since the draft and there's plenty of time for JB to show everyone he's adding to the backend. They always have a plan and this is just the first part IMO.

For example, should we have spent the 6mil on Edler resigning Boeser? That's are priority right? Same idea.

JB will move guys, don't worry. 

I just fundamentally disagree that it's all doom and gloom.

It's actually quite amusing to me.

[Kanukfanatic]

7 minutes ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

Its not miller people have questions about. 

 

Its aquilini going on record saying “dark days are done”, jim sacrificing a first rounder (drafting being the managements obvious strength) to get yet another middle six player, while now probably having to double down and overpay a free agent defenseman. Those assets should have been used to upgrade the defense. 

 

Subsequently, the canucks have too many forwards, spooner eriksson Baertschi goldobin sutter schaller, that he needs to make room for or ship out. 

 

The other gms are smelling blood in the water, and the agents to those free agent defensemen are dreaming of dead presidents. 

 

I think the draft didnt go down near how they thought. I think plan A was to get barrie or Ristolainen. Plan B was to draft Seider. Plan C was broberg. 

 

Then we go all the way down to plan M for miller. 

 

Screams desperation to me. 

Stopped reading at another middle six player.

 

If you can't even be genuine enough to admit JT Miller is a bonafide top 6 player then your opinion has no merit.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[Metal Face Doom]

8 hours ago, Clock Tower Prison said:

If Myers signs with the Canucks at reasonable term and cost then it would be like receiving mana from heaven. 

 

But I don't get why he would want to leave the Jets for anything other than more money. Other than life in Vancouver being a complete upgrade to Winnipeg. 

It won't be reasonable.  Itll be market value or a touch more.

[MystifyNCrucify]

14 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Stopped reading at another middle six player.

 

If you can't even be genuine enough to admit JT Miller is a bonafide top 6 player then your opinion has no merit.

Until he plays top six and produces in vancouver why not be skeptical? 

 

Eriksson was a bonafide top six. Gudranson was a bonafide top four. Schaller was a tough, stick up for his teammates fourth liner. Gagner was a pp specialist that netted 40-50? points. 

 

We will see this time next year. 

[Kosmo Kramer]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

The prospect of riding the bus in Utica, a thousand miles away from your wife and four young kids for three years without even getting playing time there sounds like a pretty good reason to bail.

Are there other instances of this happening?   Failing to report and retiring are different things.

 

I can't think of other players that just failed to report in.

That said I mainly just follow the nucks with my busy schedule. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

5 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

You can’t rely on players being available next year.  Too much changes.  Myers is interested and fills a big need on D.  You take the sure thing and take a step this year.  I don’t think you put a pause because someone may be available next year as a UFA.  The fact that he is actually in Van vs the other cities likely means we get first crack at making it work.  He would provide a ton of d stability:

 

Edler Myers

Hughes Tanev

Joulevi Stecher

 

By end of year:

 

Edler Myers

Hughes Tryamkin

Joulevi Stecher

 

Tanev traded to recoup a draft pick we lost for J.T. Miller.  Just think it could be essentially J.T. Miller for Tanev if we can recoup a late first or early second at the deadline.

I understand the need to act on adding to upgrade a position. I think Myers could be overated though and 6 million or more a season is a problem if longer term. Im not convinced Myers upgrades the defense.

[Kobayashi Maru]

1 minute ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I understand the need to act on adding to upgrade a position. I think Myers could be overated though and 6 million or more a season is a problem if longer term. Im not convinced Myers upgrades the defense.

He is a bit but he will always have value due to his size/reach and shot.  My primary target is Ristolainen but failing that Myers gives us options especially paired with Hughes or Edler.  I’m trying to insulate the team from Edler doing all the heavy lifting until he gets injured again.  We need stability and Myers and Risto provide that if we can get them.  My two cents which are likely worth less than that, haha.

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, Kosmo Kramer said:

Are there other instances of this happening?   Failing to report and retiring are different things.

 

I can't think of other players that just failed to report in.

That said I mainly just follow the nucks with my busy schedule. 

Yep, Berglund, Babchuk, Greg Campbell... a few older guys refused to report to the AHL after being waived and were suspended.

 

For our purposes retiring and being suspended are mostly the same thing... except with a suspension you can’t fill his cap space with another player until you are sure he isn’t going to show up or you have terminated his contract.

[DeNiro]

25 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I understand the need to act on adding to upgrade a position. I think Myers could be overated though and 6 million or more a season is a problem if longer term. Im not convinced Myers upgrades the defense.

How does Myers not upgrade our defense?

 

Our defense was horrible last year. We're forcing guys like Stecher and Pouliot into the top 4 when they're not top 4 defensemen.

 

Myers would be a top 4 on most teams. He brings something this team desperately needs which is size on the back end and the ability to move the puck.

 

If we go into next season with relatively the same D, I expect another top 10 pick, meaning our 2021 pick is going straight to Tampa.

[VIC_CITY]

1 hour ago, Tystick said:

Well the dark days are done because we've drafted well enough that we have a young core moving forward. Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes, and Demko. So he's not wrong in saying that.

I don't mind the argument that the 1st should have been used for a defenseman, that's fair. That said, it's literally been one day since the draft and there's plenty of time for JB to show everyone he's adding to the backend. They always have a plan and this is just the first part IMO.

For example, should we have spent the 6mil on Edler resigning Boeser? That's are priority right? Same idea.

JB will move guys, don't worry. 

I just fundamentally disagree that it's all doom and gloom.

It's actually quite amusing to me.

Benning clearly should have made TB hold off on trading Miller until after he signed a defenseman. Canucks fans need things done in a certain order and we will not budge!

[kanucks25]

This lines up to be another puke-worthy contract similar to the Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, etc. deals.

 

Extremely overrated, tools with no toolbox player that falls right in line with Benning's history of pro acquisitions.

 

"Big and skates great for his size" Where have we heard that before?

 

Stay far away from this eventual buyout candidate. Stop crippling our cap with shiny new toys and build through shrewd, cunning moves.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by kanucks25

[Silver Ghost]

50 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

This lines up to be another puke-worthy contract similar to the Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, etc. deals.

 

Extremely overrated, tools with no toolbox player that falls right in line with Benning's history of pro acquisitions.

 

Stay far away from this eventual buyout candidate.

The nature of free agency is overpayment in dollars and term. The overpayment has to be weighed against the other available options of trading, signing a lesser player that is cheaper, or promoting a prospect. It also has to he looked at through the lens of the chain reaction it will cause in the lineup.

 

At this point, the Canucks absolutely need an upgrade with a rh, right side D that can move the puck and eat up top 4 minutes along with special teams time. 

 

Myers isnt perfect and will likely get more term and dollars than many would like, but he absolutely would be an upgrade.

 

The key to insulating your team from future negative value on a UFA contract is to avoid NMC and NTC as much as possible and structuring the deal so it is not buyout proof or prohibitive to an acquiring team down the road. The reality is that will also mean a premium in dollars and or term to accomplish. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Silver Ghost

[kanucks25]

52 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:

The nature of free agency is overpayment in dollars and term. The overpayment has to be weighed against the other available options of trading, signing a lesser player that is cheaper, or promoting a prospect. It also has to he looked at through the lens of the chain reaction it will cause in the lineup.

 

At this point, the Canucks absolutely need an upgrade with a rh, right side D that can move the puck and eat up top 4 minutes along with special teams time. 

 

Myers isnt perfect and will likely get more term and dollars than many would like, but he absolutely would be an upgrade.

 

The key to insulating your team from future negative value on a UFA contract is to avoid NMC and NTC as much as possible and structuring the deal so it is not buyout proof or prohibitive to an acquiring team down the road. The reality is that will also mean a premium in dollars and or term to accomplish. 

I agree that overpaying a free agent in some cases is worth it because you're not giving up any assets except cap space (no picks, prospects, roster players). If you're a team that's close and needs another impact piece to put you over the top, it makes a lot of sense.

 

However, in this case, it's not worth it. Is Myers an upgrade over Schenn as our 3RD? Yes, but that's even close to justify the contract he'll get. Myers does not in any way move the needle. The open cap space we'll have by not signing him is worth more to this team going forward.

 

The sooner people, most importantly our management team, realize that open cap space is a valuable asset that should be utilized/weaponized, the faster we come out of this rebuild.

Edited June 24, 2019 by kanucks25

[Silver Ghost]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I agree that overpaying a free agent in some cases is worth it because you're not giving up any assets except cap space (no picks, prospects, roster players). If you're a team that's close and needs another impact piece to put you over the top, it makes a lot of sense.

 

However, in this case, it's not worth it. Is Myers an upgrade over Schenn as our 3RD? Yes, but that's even close to justify the contract he'll get. Myers does not in any way move the needle. The open cap space we'll have by not signing him is worth more to this team going forward.

 

The sooner people, most importantly our management team, realize that open cap space is a valuable asset that should be utilized/weaponized, the faster we come out of this rebuild.

You are comparing Myers and Schenn? Myers is a top 4 D on almost any team. Schenn is a 6 at best, but likely a 7 or 8 on a good defense. 

 

Signing a guy like Myers, as long as its not completely nuts on dollars, is better than taking on a crap contract to accumulate picks at the stage the Canucks are at on the curve. 

 

The Canucks have a solid forward group in place now. The defense needs upgrading though. If getting Myers and another free agent D lets them trade Tanev or reduce his workload so he can finally stay healthy, it is worth it. 

 

Schenn is a good depth player but they are not comparable at all. 

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, cyoung said:

Can plan your team around a potential return by tryamkin. Things must continue to progress, sitting and waiting for him would be a terrible idea.

Not suggesting we should. But if we add a UFA like Stralman, make a trade to replace Tanev and already have Stecher (who I'd personally prefer not be forced to move as that kid will go through a wall for this team), we're ALREADY going to have to get creative to fit Tryamkin in. Never mind Woo or any other pieces over the next couple years. 

 

Adding Myers as well vastly reduces our flexibility for the next 6-7 years. Now if it's instead of a trade... That's more palatable ( though I still don't like committing something like $7x7 for a D of his caliber or age).

[cyoung]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not suggesting we should. But if we add a UFA like Stralman, make a trade to replace Tanev and already have Stecher (who I'd personally prefer not be forced to move as that kid will go through a wall for this team), we're ALREADY going to have to get creative to fit Tryamkin in. Never mind Woo or any other pieces over the next couple years. 

 

Adding Myers as well vastly reduces our flexibility for the next 6-7 years. Now if it's instead of a trade... That's more palatable ( though I still don't like committing something like $7x7 for a D of his caliber or age).

Ya, I agree. It's a big commitment but honestly, it may be our best bet...D are just so hard to come by. I wouldn't be angry if we signed him, but no matter what we will have to pay high.

[Wanless]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not suggesting we should. But if we add a UFA like Stralman, make a trade to replace Tanev and already have Stecher (who I'd personally prefer not be forced to move as that kid will go through a wall for this team), we're ALREADY going to have to get creative to fit Tryamkin in. Never mind Woo or any other pieces over the next couple years. 

 

Adding Myers as well vastly reduces our flexibility for the next 6-7 years. Now if it's instead of a trade... That's more palatable ( though I still don't like committing something like $7x7 for a D of his caliber or age).

The nice thing about picking up myers for just cap space is he could be exposed if he doesn't fit the need.

 

 

[kanucks25]

22 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:

You are comparing Myers and Schenn? Myers is a top 4 D on almost any team. Schenn is a 6 at best, but likely a 7 or 8 on a good defense. 

 

Signing a guy like Myers, as long as its not completely nuts on dollars, is better than taking on a crap contract to accumulate picks at the stage the Canucks are at on the curve. 

 

The Canucks have a solid forward group in place now. The defense needs upgrading though. If getting Myers and another free agent D lets them trade Tanev or reduce his workload so he can finally stay healthy, it is worth it. 

 

Schenn is a good depth player but they are not comparable at all. 

I said he's an upgrade over Schenn, please read again carefully.

 

However, I also said he doesn't move the needle. In other words, he's not much of an upgrade over Tanev or Stecher in our top-4 right side.

 

Saying he's a top-4 on a contender is pushing it. He was never ahead of Byfuglien or Trouba on Winnipeg's right side, nobody in their right mind would take Myers over those two guys. Yes, we don't have a Buff or Trouba on our team, but it doesn't change the fact that Myers is not an impact D-man.

 

Does adding Myers to our roster without subtracting anyone make us better on paper and on the ice? Sure. Is it worth it when you take into account all the context? Hell no.

 

And to suggest we aren't in a position to add picks and prospects at this stage of our organization is completely laughable. We are nowhere close to competing and to sacrifice our cap structure now in the name of adding average players is asinine.

[Gaudette Celly]

5 hours ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

The problem is Benning showed his cards in the miller deal. Aquilini is back to meddling, and now jim has to make the playoffs. He needs to upgrade the defense or the canucks will miss the playoffs. 

 

That first should have been used to upgrade the defense. Whatever, spilt milk etc etc. 

 

Guess we will see next year at pretty much exactly the same time. 

 

5 hours ago, Lulover88 said:

fans here will say you have no proof but I think you are right on the money ..     we are in a squeeze here ..  

 

4 hours ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

Screams desperation to me. 

You guys talk like the team has zero plan and is just winging it, micro-analyzing individual transactions in a vacuum.  Take a step back and see the big picture, instead of compartmentalizing comments and trades, and you'll see that a top-4 RD has been openly Benning's #1 priority for at least a couple years, and he's in fact said he wants to add "at least one" this summer.  Just because he took an opportunity to gain a top-6 player first doesn't preclude that happening, at all.  Listen to what's being said, and if you can, at least wait 7 more days before revving up the angst and despair.

[Alflives]

42 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I agree that overpaying a free agent in some cases is worth it because you're not giving up any assets except cap space (no picks, prospects, roster players). If you're a team that's close and needs another impact piece to put you over the top, it makes a lot of sense.

 

However, in this case, it's not worth it. Is Myers an upgrade over Schenn as our 3RD? Yes, but that's even close to justify the contract he'll get. Myers does not in any way move the needle. The open cap space we'll have by not signing him is worth more to this team going forward.

 

The sooner people, most importantly our management team, realize that open cap space is a valuable asset that should be utilized/weaponized, the faster we come out of this rebuild.

It’s going to be one of Myers or Gardiner.  Which one is best for us now, and over the next 7 years?  I like Gardiner’s skill, but Myers is a big boy, who might (I think he will) play at his current level for the contract’s term.