Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Boudrias]

Fans were willing to dump on Travis Green when Utica had a slow start. They win last night with Megna-Chaput-Grenier-LaBate and yes Stecher called up to the Canucks.

Should I have comfort in what Green will be able to do with Virtanen? I think so.  

[NEON.KNEE]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Fans were willing to dump on Travis Green when Utica had a slow start. They win last night with Megna-Chaput-Grenier-LaBate and yes Stecher called up to the Canucks.

Should I have comfort in what Green will be able to do with Virtanen? I think so.  

I think it will just take time.  I am being patient.  From what little highlights I have seen from Jake in Utica is that he is taking up alot of space and moving up ice real fast.  He's entering the zone and drawing defenders.  

 

I want to see him on the left side, this is where he had his most success offensively and in the end, I'm sure we would all like Jake to be more than just a 3rd line effective minute muncher once he comes back to the NHL.

[Honky Cat]

4 hours ago, ice orca said:

Thing that bothers he hasn't had 1 hit since he was sent down, for a guy who is supposed to get his game going that;s a bit concerning.

I haven't really seen him hit anybody this entire season...This must be the worst case scenario as far he/and the organization is concerned (he was the flagship player in all of the promotion the Canucks did over the summer).....

[NEON.KNEE]

39 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

I haven't really seen him hit anybody this entire season...This must be the worst case scenario as far he/and the organization is concerned (he was the flagship player in all of the promotion the Canucks did over the summer).....

JV playing in Utica is BEST case scenario for JV and the team.  He needs to play more minutes and be away from the media $&!#show and distractions in VanCity.  We should close all of these threads and let the guy focus on being a PRO hockey player.

 

I don't know too much about Jake's upbringing, and I don't know if he ever had to work for anything his entire life.  Hard work is what will make JV a better pro.  It seems like everything came too easy for him so far, in terms of hockey at least.  

 

[gameburn2]

57 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

I haven't really seen him hit anybody this entire season...This must be the worst case scenario as far he/and the organization is concerned (he was the flagship player in all of the promotion the Canucks did over the summer).....

One of three things are possible, maybe all:

1. Jake is nervous about shoulder injuries or similar.

2.  Suspensions and a rep for cheap-shotting are making him hesitant.

3. He has been told by some key people (Trevor or Jim or even WD) that he was not drafted to be Torres 2.0 but to be a power forward who puts up points and who gets the other team to take penalties (and not take them himself.)  This might make him too much of a finesse player for his own good.

 

TBH, he has had moments where he has been brilliant, in particular his quick release from odd angles.  Also, he has made some of the best passes I've seen this year.  Obviously his defensive game has not been good, and his ability to figure out what kind of player he wants to be/can be is not great either.

 

He finished well last year, and it seems unlikely he could be worse than last year... so... we have a mystery.  My guess is that he will get another chance and show well.  And never look back. 

 

I think the fact he can play the fourth line or work a pp, be a scorer or a hitter (on a team that lacks some grit) has been a mixed blessing.  I remember Benning saying a couple of times that "Jake can help us now," rather than giving him a decent chance to develop.  I think it was the hitting Benning thought was needed.  This is Bad.  The kid has to be much more like Bert and much less like Torres if he's going to fulfill expectations most of us have.  Benning seems to think he's useful if he runs around a bit and defends well enough not to be a liability.  Almost the opposite of what he needs, imo.  He should have been sent to Utica the first day out of camp, he looked a bit chubby and seemed a bit confused out there.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by gameburn2

[Jägermeister]

I've never wanted a player to prove me wrong so badly before.

Please prove me wrong Jake.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jägermeister

[NEON.KNEE]

1 hour ago, Jägermeister said:

I've never wanted a player to prove me wrong so badly before.

Please prove me wrong Jake.

He will...How patient are you tho.  Bertuzzi took a LONG time to develop.  Jake might be 25-26 before we see him at his best

[Jägermeister]

39 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

He will...How patient are you tho.  Bertuzzi took a LONG time to develop.  Jake might be 25-26 before we see him at his best

The whole "power forwards breakout later" idea isn't really true.  Most good power forwards are in the league producing pretty well in their early 20's (Perry, Nash, Lucic, Kreider, Benn, Iginla, Wheeler).

It's entirely possible that Jake breaks out at that age, but Bertuzzi was more of an exception, not the rule.  And even still, he had a 39 point season under his belt after his 20 year old season.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jägermeister

[NEON.KNEE]

Just now, Jägermeister said:

The whole "power forwards breakout later" idea isn't really true.  Most good power forwards are in the league producing pretty well in their early 20's (Perry, Nash, Lucic, Kreider, Benn, Iginla, Wheeler).

It's entirely possible that Jake breaks out at that age, but Bertuzzi was more of an exception, not the rule.  And even still, he had a 39 point season under his belt after his 20 year old season.

Fair enough...Iginla and Wheeler didn't have good years until later, Kreider is having his best year now...and Jake isn't even 20 yet.  After his year in the AHL I expect pretty decent numbers next year.  You are not being patient enough.

Benn, Perry and Nash are special players.  I am not putting JV in that class of player.

Lucic is garbage and will always be garbage.

[Jägermeister]

10 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

Fair enough...Iginla and Wheeler didn't have good years until later, Kreider is having his best year now...and Jake isn't even 20 yet.  After his year in the AHL I expect pretty decent numbers next year.  You are not being patient enough.

Benn, Perry and Nash are special players.  I am not putting JV in that class of player.

Lucic is garbage and will always be garbage.

For the record, I've never been high on Virtanen.  I'm not just abandoning ship because he's struggled this year.  Going back to the season we drafted him I was hoping that we would go another route.  I thought he had a safe floor but didn't have the hockey sense to be a potential premier player.  I was more interested in Nick Ritchie to be honest.

I've always seen Jake as more of a guy in a Raffi Torres mold. But now that he seems so hesitant to throw hits, something will need to change for him to get to reach that level.

I can be patient all I want, but in the end of the day it won't change the fact that I've never really thought there was a whole lot to look forward to

regarding Jake.

But again, I really hope I'm wrong.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jägermeister

[NEON.KNEE]

Just now, Jägermeister said:

For the record, I've never been high on Virtanen.  Going back to the season we drafted him I was hoping that we would go another route.  I thought he had a safe floor but didn't have the hockey sense to be a potential premier player.

I've always seen him as more of a guy in a Raffi Torres mold. But now that he seems so hesitant to throw hits, something will need to change for him to get to reach that level.

 

I can be patient all I want, but in the end of the day it won't change the fact that I've never really thought there was a whole lot to look forward to regarding Jake.

And I am the opposite.  I think he was a "safe" pick for sure, but I expected and still expect him to be much more than a Raffi Torres type.

As for the lack of physical play as of late, I suspect Jake is nursing an injury that no one is talking about.   He already had shoulder work done once.  But in all reality it is in his best interest to work on his offensive game.,  We all know he can play physical.  Look what happened last year when he tried to play the heavy...He got suspended and jumped by a career AHL'er...and that is just 2 examples.

When he is at Bert status then he can start throwing his weight around.

Jake is so young dude...he needs to grow up, and learn to work hard in the AHL...You are so very wrong about Jake, I assure you.  Just forget his name for 2 years and you will be pleasantly surprised.

[JamesB]

 

On 11/25/2016 at 1:19 PM, Jiggs50 said:

Other than a few hits JV hasn't shown any flashes. It's like he was just glad he got drafted and now doesn't give a f.

 

His attitude and commitment to the game needs work. It's all mental for this guy.  

 

I fault JB and Willie too though. JB brought him up a year too early and Willie only plays the guy on the goddamn 4th line. 

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Jägermeister said:

The whole "power forwards breakout later" idea isn't really true.  Most good power forwards are in the league producing pretty well in their early 20's (Perry, Nash, Lucic, Kreider, Benn, Iginla, Wheeler).

It's entirely possible that Jake breaks out at that age, but Bertuzzi was more of an exception, not the rule.  And even still, he had a 39 point season under his belt after his 20 year old season.

 

50% agreement with Jiggs50. I also fault JB for bringing up Virtanen too early. He had no business being in the NHL last year. I know that the Canucks were not happy with his environment in Junior but maybe his coaches in Calgary were on to something in their handling of Jake. He did not get consistent PP and first line minutes with the Calgary Hitmen because he was not consistent enough to earn them. And I know the Canucks were also concerned about his diet and his conditioning. But, to me, all those concerns -- various problems with consistency, self-discipline regarding diet and conditioning, in addition to the other concerns (low hockey IQ) make him a very questionable pick at #6 overall. But, as for Willie, I think he did the best he could. There was no basis for playing Jake anywhere above the 4th line and, frankly, Virtanen did no play well enough to even deserve being on the 4th line.

 

And thanks to Jagermeister. The argument that "power forwards develop late" just isn't true. Some power forwards develop late. Some pure skill guys also develop late. I have checked out the data overall and there is no particular difference. We could make a list of a few guys in each category. But, overall, a player's trajectory is the best predictor of his how good he will be, regardless of the niche he fits into. .

 

Right now, Nylander and Ehlers have much better trajectories. Even Michael Dal Colle, picked at #5 overall and regarded as the big disappointment of the 2014 draft, is doing better than Jake in the AHL and at least looks like a guy who will play in the NHL in the near future. And Nick Ritchie (#10 overall) is doing pretty well in Anaheim.

 

Overall, Benning has done well in the draft and not every pick can work out well. But, let's face it, Jake has been disappointing and really has not kept up with his draft cohort (forwards picked in nearby spots in the 2014 draft). With his size, speed, strength, and physical play he always seemed like a safe pick -- a guy who could at least be effective as a third liner (where Craig Buttom projected him, to the outrage of many Canuck fans). But right now it is not clear Jake will even do that well. I have to agree with Jiggs. It is the mental game that is the key, but that does not mean it is easy to fix.

 

 

 

[Bruce Boudreau]

4 hours ago, NEON.KNEE said:

JV playing in Utica is BEST case scenario for JV and the team.  He needs to play more minutes and be away from the media $&!#show and distractions in VanCity.  We should close all of these threads and let the guy focus on being a PRO hockey player.

 

I don't know too much about Jake's upbringing, and I don't know if he ever had to work for anything his entire life.  Hard work is what will make JV a better pro.  It seems like everything came too easy for him so far, in terms of hockey at least.  

 

 

This happens all the time is he a Gilbert Brule. Dominating player in junior because he was physically faster than guys and was unafraid of playing physical.

 

Go to the NHL and all of the sudden the worst guys in the NHL are the average players in junior and the entire talent level is different with guys bigger,faster, and stronger than you.

 

You have to work to become a better player instead of relying on your pure physical traits like speed and size and hitting ability.

 

It's always mental issues when a highly regarded player busts it's those expectations of being a 1st round top 10 pick being a local guy and on and on. That or either injuries.

 

There is a guy on the Eagles in the NFL in Nelson Agholor who mentally has lost all confidence and makes simple mental mistakes such as where to lineup and how to do things he has been doing his whole life like catch the football.

[khay]

3 hours ago, Jägermeister said:

I've never wanted a player to prove me wrong so badly before.

Please prove me wrong Jake.

 

This is exactly what I'm hoping too.

 

I am a bit discouraged regarding Virtanen at the moment and I'm telling myself that I'll be happy if Virtanen becomes more physical version of Hansen at this point... but I hope Virtanen will prove all of us doubters wrong and make all of us look like idiots. 

 

At least him being sent down was a step in the right direction. Let's see what he does with a full season in the AHL. Could surprise a lot of us.

 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Top 10 picks aren't guaranteed locks. Hodgson is a good example of that. Can we at least give Jake the same 2-3 years of patience fans gave Kassian? 

[NEON.KNEE]

2 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

 

This happens all the time is he a Gilbert Brule. Dominating player in junior because he was physically faster than guys and was unafraid of playing physical.

 

Go to the NHL and all of the sudden the worst guys in the NHL are the average players in junior and the entire talent level is different with guys bigger,faster, and stronger than you.

 

You have to work to become a better player instead of relying on your pure physical traits like speed and size and hitting ability.

 

It's always mental issues when a highly regarded player busts it's those expectations of being a 1st round top 10 pick being a local guy and on and on. That or either injuries.

 

There is a guy on the Eagles in the NFL in Nelson Agholor who mentally has lost all confidence and makes simple mental mistakes such as where to lineup and how to do things he has been doing his whole life like catch the football.

Exactly... But I believe that Jake can become a good NHL'er...It is literally on him.  He needs the change of scenery and he needs to work hard every night.

[NEON.KNEE]

Jake went -2, with 3 shots in a 4-1 loss to the Marlies tonight

[WHL rocks]

JB and TL rushed him. Just like Doug Mac rushed Brule. 

 

Hopefully they leave him down in the AHL for whole season. Don't even think about bringing him up. If needed do same thing next year. Let him be a project and let him develop in minors. If handled right maybe we can get a 3rd line player out of him. 

[Bruce Boudreau]

Just now, WHL rocks said:

JB and TL rushed him. Just like Doug Mac rushed Brule. 

 

Hopefully they leave him down in the AHL for whole season. Don't even think about bringing him up. If needed do same thing next year. Let him be a project and let him develop in minors. If handled right maybe we can get a 3rd line player out of him. 

Yeah he says his biggest regret as CBJ GM was rushing Brulé and ruining the chance to see if he could be half the dominant player that he was in junior.

 

He was a guy mentioned with Crosby and Bobby Ryan as elite first line potential talents coming out of junior.

[Zhukini]

It's nice to think that the AHL is a good thing for Jake, but what happens if he finishes the year there with 20 points in 60 games?

 

Hes got this year and then not a lot of leeway after that