Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[canucksnihilist]

karma-centric thought:

 

He started strong, then hit a wall.  then got discouraged.  then learned to play defense.  now he is getting another shot.  

 

seems like a cycle has happened, let's see if he can take the next step into a new cycle or if he still needs time on the old one.

[Toews]

10 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Can someone explain why supposed Canuck fans want him to fail or be a bust?

Who wants him to fail? Unless you see criticism as a desire to see him fail.

[MeanSeanBean]

 

42 minutes ago, Toews said:

Who wants him to fail? Unless you see criticism as a desire to see him fail.

Oh don't even...

 

I have consistently stayed up to date with both Virtanen threads. Yes, some posters do post with justified criticism and genuine concerns about the possibility that Jake can't turn it around and become a impact top 9 player. But there are a number of posters who do generate exclusively negative posts on the kid for ****s and giggles. I'm not even talking about pure trolls, posters who have been around these boards like yourself. To start playing the victim here and saying that it's only concern for Jake is crap. There's a hand full of posters that would love nothing more then see him fail for the strict satisfaction of saying "I told you so". To deny otherwise is preposterous. 

[The Lock]

2 hours ago, guntrix said:

People have been saying this ever since he was drafted but without the necessary IQ, he won't progress from a 3rd/4th line energy player. 

 

The fact that people have seemingly convinced themselves that it's fine that a 6th overall pick doesn't have to score in his draft +3 year says it all. 

With the draft, the ultimate goal is to draft players who make it to the NHL and stay in the NHL. Anything else it a bonus. So if Virtanen makes it back into the NHL and stays, then it's at least better than other situations we've had with first round picks.

 

I think too much focus gets put on the fact that he's 6th overall. It is perfectly fine that a 6th overall isn't a high end goal scorer as long as he contributes for us elsewhere. He has the ability to do that with his frame which we can't exactly say for a lot other prospects. Time will tell if he makes it or if he becomes a flop.

 

EDIT: And for the record, I'm not trying to convince myself of things. This is what I believe in for any player. Once the draft is over, anything can happen, as evidenced by even that draft where McCann came out of camp with something to prove, or Horvat proving he's better than just being a 9th overall pick. Draft order at that point means very little. It's a number and, if you focus too much on that number, you lose focus on the bigger picture.

Edited May 20, 2017 by The Lock

[Rob_Zepp]

17 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

If a young player does well people will be excited, if a young player performs poorly people will be disappointed... Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?  

 

If you don't think he had a disappointing season then I guess that's your problem. 

I don't have a problem at all.   I don't think his season was a disappointment as the goal  once in AHL was to learn how to play as a professional and I believe Green when he says he made huge strides.   If Green had said he regressed, I would have been disappointed.

 

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word?   

[Master 112]

Just now, The 5th Line said:

Okay yeah you're right.  Nobody should be disappointed that the 6th overall pick who was known as an offensive player only put up 19 points in the AHL in his draft +3 season.  

shh. adults are talking.

[Master 112]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

Can someone explain why supposed Canuck fans want him to fail or be a bust?

I don't think so, because there's no reason for a fan of this team to want that to happen. (unless that question was rhetorical.)

[cripplereh]

On 4/23/2017 at 0:35 AM, kenhodgejr said:

Does this mean we get rid of Ried Boucher, Michael Chaput, Jason Megna, Drew Shore, Jack Skille, Anton Rodin, and Griffen Molino? 

yes all but Boucher and Molino  but again with vegas coming we might not keep all, Megna , Chaput should be in the AHL   Skille will not be resigned I hope, Rodin might be in a trade to get someone else and Shore if Gaunce is taken will be signed for his spot

 

that is my call which probably will not happen but so far all on your list have been floaters that we need upgrades on

[dpn1]

I would like to know what the percentage is of players in the first three rounds that make it to the NHL?

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Okay yeah you're right.  Nobody should be disappointed that the 6th overall pick who was known as an offensive player only put up 19 points in the AHL in his draft +3 season.  

Only those who don't understand process.   That's ok though, some follow hockey because they know and appreciate the game and others follow as they know stats and PlayStation.   Both can have fun and it is a hoot to listen to the latter go on about things.

[Toews]

8 hours ago, shayster007 said:

 

Oh don't even...

 

I have consistently stayed up to date with both Virtanen threads. Yes, some posters do post with justified criticism and genuine concerns about the possibility that Jake can't turn it around and become a impact top 9 player. But there are a number of posters who do generate exclusively negative posts on the kid for ****s and giggles. I'm not even talking about pure trolls, posters who have been around these boards like yourself. To start playing the victim here and saying that it's only concern for Jake is crap. There's a hand full of posters that would love nothing more then see him fail for the strict satisfaction of saying "I told you so". To deny otherwise is preposterous. 

Not sure when I have played the victim. Honestly speaking I just post my opinion. I don't care too much if it will upset and annoy anyone, because that is out of my control. I can only post my thoughts on something, if someone can't handle it then they can choose to put me on their ignore list if they desire. Other than that I do not like nor dislike Jake Virtanen. I do not know him personally so the only opinion I have of him is about his on ice performance. I just like the many others who have been accused of "hating" on him have a vested interest in seeing him succeed because he is a Vancouver Canuck.

 

I do not care to be proven right because I have made no grand proclamations like some in this thread. I have only commented on the player he is today. I have made predictions. I have posted my expectations but I am no clairvoyant, I have always made it clear that I possess no ability to look into the future to say with any certainty what Jake Virtanen's future looks like.

 

If you want to read about my thoughts and hopes regarding him then refer to the following post.

 

I have been told that my opinions in this thread would be more tolerable if I were to balance out the criticisms with "positivity". I just have no desire to do that. I am not going to water down my post and minimize my arguments just to gain acceptance and more +'s. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Toews

[Kaner]

I'm not going to write him off until after this summer. He certainly is no Nylander, Ehlers, but he as a skillet that can be effective as an NHL 3rd line/grinder at the least albeit a low IQ. 

 

However, if he comes to camp and plays like he did this year, I will personally label him as a bust. You can make a case for someone still learning the pro game, which is fine by me, but you can't make an excuse for someone who repeatedly shows up to training camp looking like a Big Whopper meal while acting entitled.  

[Drewismyname]

51 minutes ago, Kaner said:

I'm not going to write him off until after this summer. He certainly is no Nylander, Ehlers, but he as a skillet that can be effective as an NHL 3rd line/grinder at the least albeit a low IQ. 

 

However, if he comes to camp and plays like he did this year, I will personally label him as a bust. You can make a case for someone still learning the pro game, which is fine by me, but you can't make an excuse for someone who repeatedly shows up to training camp looking like a Big Whopper meal while acting entitled.  

Kinda like Hodgson? 

 

Maybe it has a bit to do with the culture? Nevermind, you wouldn't understand. You've probably never made a big whopper meal now have you? Try aassociating with Mcdonalds while trying to be a pro athlete and you'll feel right at home with Virtanen.

 

Yea. I love misery. I love having a losing team. I want to break down and humiliate every person we sign so their bank account is the only thing that looks good. 

 

Once this team ends the " i " culture, we will win. Just like Boston, Chicago, Detroit, and so on. 

 

 

end of thread. Oh, I'm sorry, did I make you uncomfortable exposing the absolute disgustingness that the rest of the league holds their noses at that is the culture of "canucks nation"? The one all of you trolls are fighting JB for trying to change? 

 

My bad. I guess u have to think of some one else next time you buy your happy meal. Maybe yourself? 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Drewismyname

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Drewismyname said:

Kinda like Hodgson? 

 

Maybe it has a bit to do with the culture? Nevermind, you wouldn't understand. You've probably never made a big whopper meal now have you? Try aassociating with Mcdonalds while trying to be a pro athlete and you'll feel right at home with Virtanen.

 

Yea. I love misery. I love having a losing team. I want to break down and humiliate every person we sign so their bank account is the only thing that looks good. 

 

Once this team ends the " i " culture, we will win. Just like Boston, Chicago, Detroit, and so on. 

 

 

end of thread. Oh, I'm sorry, did I make you uncomfortable exposing the absolute disgustingness that the rest of the league holds their noses at that is the culture of "canucks nation"? The one all of you trolls are fighting JB for trying to change? 

 

My bad. I guess u have to think of some one else next time you buy your happy meal. Maybe yourself? 

I'm so confuse to what just happened there. 

[guntrix]

8 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Only those who don't understand process.   That's ok though, some follow hockey because they know and appreciate the game and others follow as they know stats and PlayStation.   Both can have fun and it is a hoot to listen to the latter go on about things.

Process? Calm down there Gillis. You do understand that players like Virtanen are more likely to end up on the 4th line than in the top six right? You should probably go read up on boom/bust ratios of power forwards before talking about the "process."

 

It's people like you who then go on to nonsensically compare his trajectory to that of Bertuzzi and Benn.

 

Like someone on HFBoards said, only two players with Jake's trajectory have gone on to become NHL regulars. The probability statistics are there and we're using those to make our points instead of throwing out obscure terms like the "process."

 

Expectations should be tampered to reflect what Jake has shown so far. I'd be ecstatic if he became a regular 4th line player. 

[Ray_Cathode]

Seems like Jake  is making history, an eighteen year old doesn't stick with the team right away... his career must be over!!!  Only two guys have not made the team right away and made the team again later!!!!  The sky is falling!!!  Okay, he might NOT make the team, but this is just ridiculous, it is way, way too early to tell.
Virtanen's problem the first year, was the guy who got fired, plus the fact that he left Vancouver with No idea what kind of player he was supposed to be.

That seems to be a problem for young guys with size that come to Vancouver... cough (Tryamkin).  Oh yeah, we didn't like Neely, either, well at least not enough to keep him over a guy with a tumor on his arm the size of an apple.

[canuckledraggin]

This thread is a disappointment. 

[Jester13]

17 hours ago, guntrix said:

People have been saying this ever since he was drafted but without the necessary IQ, he won't progress from a 3rd/4th line energy player. 

 

The fact that people have seemingly convinced themselves that it's fine that a 6th overall pick doesn't have to score in his draft +3 year says it all. 

His IQ has not been the problem. His conditioning and work ethic have been the issues, and now they no longer are.

 

Unless, of course, he shows up to camp over weight again and appears entitled to a spot, but I just don't think he will ever do that again.  

[Wolfgang Durst]

43 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

His IQ has not been the problem. His conditioning and work ethic have been the issues, and now they no longer are.

 

Unless, of course, he shows up to camp over weight again and appears entitled to a spot, but I just don't think he will ever do that again.  

Aside from conditioning and work ethic there is a issue with his  consistency.  Based  on one user's comment he showed great  performance in  some  games and in  some games he was one of the worst player's on the ice. (must have been a comment a few pages ahead of this current page). A user who saw some games in Utica this season. Well, I think it's disppointing when a player selected #6 overall does not show the necessary work ethic. I am pretty curious how he is going to look like with proper conditioning and work ethic. As Willie Desjarding puts it: Time will tell.

[Toews]

Work ethic should not be an issue going forward IMO. I have been critical of him but he didn't just talk the talk last year. At the start of the year he could barely take a full shift before he had to go off. Now he can stay out there and remain engaged for a full shift.

 

I think he has understood that if he wants a future in the NHL, he needs to take his training seriously. He is not going to come into camp out of shape. I still think he has a lot to learn if he is going to be a power forward and should be in the AHL to start the year.