Nikita Tryamkin | D

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

Zepp,  you should should have the same amount of faith in Tryamkin, as you have in Gudbranson.

I can see an NHL player in Tryamkin, actually, we all have already.

He only needs to return.. not to prove anything for me, he already has.

Sam, I don't....simply reason is Guddy hasn't looked for options when he didn't get things the way he wanted them.   

 

The Tryamkin I saw in Vancouver had lots of promise.   The Tryamkin I saw this past year was not improved over that - he was involved offensively (good) but often disengaged defensively (bad) and the quality of the play was horrid.   I sincerely worry he will not be an NHL player if he is gone more than one more year from the NHL.  It is not a switch you can flip.

[SilentSam]

7 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Sam, I don't....simply reason is Guddy hasn't looked for options when he didn't get things the way he wanted them.   

 

The Tryamkin I saw in Vancouver had lots of promise.   The Tryamkin I saw this past year was not improved over that - he was involved offensively (good) but often disengaged defensively (bad) and the quality of the play was horrid.   I sincerely worry he will not be an NHL player if he is gone more than one more year from the NHL.  It is not a switch you can flip.

Time will heal your wounds Zepp.

[Rob_Zepp]

27 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Time will heal your wounds Zepp.

LOL.   Love your posts Sam.   Somewhere in Russia tonight, the big guy is waking up to a new day knowing his biggest fan continues to fight the good fight for him.   Good on ya!   

[Hairy Kneel]

9 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Sam, I don't....simply reason is Guddy hasn't looked for options when he didn't get things the way he wanted them.   

 

The Tryamkin I saw in Vancouver had lots of promise.   The Tryamkin I saw this past year was not improved over that - he was involved offensively (good) but often disengaged defensively (bad) and the quality of the play was horrid.   I sincerely worry he will not be an NHL player if he is gone more than one more year from the NHL.  It is not a switch you can flip.

You can't say he played terribly defensively this past season. The games I saw he was effective at take aways and still proficient at that dirty long poke check. I think you got a hate on for him which I think is just trolling the kid. What more can we ask for from a 3rd round pick.

[CanucksJay]

4 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

You can't say he played terribly defensively this past season. The games I saw he was effective at take aways and still proficient at that dirty long poke check. I think you got a hate on for him which I think is just trolling the kid. What more can we ask for from a 3rd round pick.

I haven't watched him this year but I guess the KHL or Russia wasn't watching either. Who gets all star status and a roster spot on the world team for being so horrible... 

[Hairy Kneel]

20 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I haven't watched him this year but I guess the KHL or Russia wasn't watching either. Who gets all star status and a roster spot on the world team for being so horrible... 

He won virtually every one on one battle in the corners that I saw. 

[Rob_Zepp]

7 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

You can't say he played terribly defensively this past season. The games I saw he was effective at take aways and still proficient at that dirty long poke check. I think you got a hate on for him which I think is just trolling the kid. What more can we ask for from a 3rd round pick.

lol.   I don’t hate him at all.   I cannot invent a narrative for him that is based on what I hope for him.   I didn’t see him a ton last year but it was closer to five or six times and not once and he was decent but in games that could at best be called poor AHL equivalents.   There is a reason he was left off the Olympic squad.

[Hairy Kneel]

19 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

lol.   I don’t hate him at all.   I cannot invent a narrative for him that is based on what I hope for him.   I didn’t see him a ton last year but it was closer to five or six times and not once and he was decent but in games that could at best be called poor AHL equivalents.   There is a reason he was left off the Olympic squad.

For someone that goes out of his way to criticize a young player, seemingly every Tryamkin thread, you never have supporting insights. The kid is a 3rd round pick we hope to develop. He's not a 1st round flop that deserves to be trolled.

[Rob_Zepp]

35 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

For someone that goes out of his way to criticize a young player, seemingly every Tryamkin thread, you never have supporting insights. The kid is a 3rd round pick we hope to develop. He's not a 1st round flop that deserves to be trolled.

I criticize him?   Wow.   OK.    I have said repeatedly that he was an intriguing prospect with some unique skills that could be developed.   That is what you mean as criticism?   Or was it his running back to Russia for whatever reason (real or invented) - that criticism?   Or is it that the number of players who have played in NHL, returned to KHL, and come back successfully is about the same number of shutouts Marky has in his career?    That criticism?   

 

How on earth is he being trolled?   What amazes me is this kid comes in, refuses a conditioning stint and then goes on to play some decent minutes as a rookie with glimpses of something better ahead for him and he is seemingly not happy with coaching, MaryJane odor, wife demands,....whatever, and he returns to Russia and signs a three year contract.   How that suddenly turned him into a top 4 Dman in the NHL when he was, at best, an intriguing prospect for a 30ish place NHL team simply is at odds with logic.   He made all kinds of basic mistakes while with Canucks but flashed some really nice looking potential which made him, per what I have said on him forever, INTRIGUING.    

 

The longer he stays from the NHL, the less likely he will be able to grasp the Dzone responsibilities, speed and fitness levels required.    My personal opinion, having seen players try this, is if he spends more than one more season away from NHL he will be incapable of catching back up.   That is my opinion.   I have no idea how that, or any of the above, is "trolling" the player as that opinion and my observations on him as shared widely.   

 

A few of you think of him as some sort of top 4 saviour for the Canucks.   Great.   Good on you and good for him to have such loyal fans.   The only issue I see with that as there is no empirical logic behind it nor is there much precedence with other similar players doing what he has done.   When you add an attitude that was "quit" versus "tough it out", one has to wonder as even a niggle in the brain is all it takes to separate a long professional career and a long NHL professional career.

 

Jeez, if this is trolling the player the sensitivity meter on these  young kids needs a calibration.   I didn't mind being "wrong" on Virtanen three years ago as I simply had lots of reasons to think he would emerge.   He hasn't fully by any stretch but he is showing the signs for sure.   I remain confident on OJ yet most, again, say I am "wrong" there too.   I must say this is the first instance of a Canuck prospect where people say I am being too hard....as I typically find the "please be patient and you will see" mantra needed when I am pointed as out being so "wrong" on my optimism for these kids.   Tryamkin lost a large chunk of my optimism when he left Canada and if he spends even one more full year in Russia, it will be almost gone and if two it will be pretty much zilch.

 

Apologies for having an opinion.   If I wanted to troll a player, you would know.

 

 

[bree2]

wow finally someone on here says  the truth, thanks Rob_Zepp,  I was excited about him.   tram was never a saviour for this team, he was overly big and out of shape, he left the team not caring at all about us the fans or the org.  him and his wife scooted back home , so why should he come back and be welcomed with open arms.

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, bree2 said:

wow finally someone on here says  the truth, thanks Rob_Zepp,  I was excited about him.   tram was never a saviour for this team, he was overly big and out of shape, he left the team not caring at all about us the fans or the org.  him and his wife scooted back home , so why should he come back and be welcomed with open arms.

@bree2, I am not sure it is the "truth" as I certainly have never spoken to the big guy but it all seems to fit.   Moreover, while I still think he could salvage an NHL career his window is closing as playing that long in an inferior league that does not value defensive responsibilities simply isn't what he needed....it could work for an offensive player (center for example) but not for a Dman IMHO.   My opinion is just that - it isn't necessarily accurate or even remotely so but it seems that for some reason, a few have decided this guy is a lock top 4 guy in the NHL and I saw nothing from his NHL stint that had me concluding that was a certainty - the potential was sure there, but so was a lot of concern about habits in his game that are hard to break and habits that are now being reinforced in the KHL from what I saw last year (admittedly a handful of games).    

 

IF he was to find a way out of his contract at the end of this season and IF he was open to Utica if deemed necessary (even on a one way deal), then give him a chance but if it is longer, my guess is the bus on his NHL window may have left the station.   That is simply an opinion - I know others differ but that doesn't mean I am trolling the guy.   I am very much pulling for him but am trying to do so from a place of reality (in my mind).   

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

@bree2, I am not sure it is the "truth" as I certainly have never spoken to the big guy but it all seems to fit.   Moreover, while I still think he could salvage an NHL career his window is closing as playing that long in an inferior league that does not value defensive responsibilities simply isn't what he needed....it could work for an offensive player (center for example) but not for a Dman IMHO.   My opinion is just that - it isn't necessarily accurate or even remotely so but it seems that for some reason, a few have decided this guy is a lock top 4 guy in the NHL and I saw nothing from his NHL stint that had me concluding that was a certainty - the potential was sure there, but so was a lot of concern about habits in his game that are hard to break and habits that are now being reinforced in the KHL from what I saw last year (admittedly a handful of games).    

 

IF he was to find a way out of his contract at the end of this season and IF he was open to Utica if deemed necessary (even on a one way deal), then give him a chance but if it is longer, my guess is the bus on his NHL window may have left the station.   That is simply an opinion - I know others differ but that doesn't mean I am trolling the guy.   I am very much pulling for him but am trying to do so from a place of reality (in my mind).   

The only problem with reality ...is it only get's worse....you should try some of Alf's med's....

No wait....Tryamkin should try some....(happy face emoticon)....

[alfstonker]

6 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I criticize him?   Wow.   OK.    I have said repeatedly that he was an intriguing prospect with some unique skills that could be developed.   That is what you mean as criticism?   Or was it his running back to Russia for whatever reason (real or invented) - that criticism?   Or is it that the number of players who have played in NHL, returned to KHL, and come back successfully is about the same number of shutouts Marky has in his career?    That criticism?   

 

How on earth is he being trolled?   What amazes me is this kid comes in, refuses a conditioning stint and then goes on to play some decent minutes as a rookie with glimpses of something better ahead for him and he is seemingly not happy with coaching, MaryJane odor, wife demands,....whatever, and he returns to Russia and signs a three year contract.   How that suddenly turned him into a top 4 Dman in the NHL when he was, at best, an intriguing prospect for a 30ish place NHL team simply is at odds with logic.   He made all kinds of basic mistakes while with Canucks but flashed some really nice looking potential which made him, per what I have said on him forever, INTRIGUING.    

 

The longer he stays from the NHL, the less likely he will be able to grasp the Dzone responsibilities, speed and fitness levels required.    My personal opinion, having seen players try this, is if he spends more than one more season away from NHL he will be incapable of catching back up.   That is my opinion.   I have no idea how that, or any of the above, is "trolling" the player as that opinion and my observations on him as shared widely.   

 

A few of you think of him as some sort of top 4 saviour for the Canucks.   Great.   Good on you and good for him to have such loyal fans.   The only issue I see with that as there is no empirical logic behind it nor is there much precedence with other similar players doing what he has done.   When you add an attitude that was "quit" versus "tough it out", one has to wonder as even a niggle in the brain is all it takes to separate a long professional career and a long NHL professional career.

 

Jeez, if this is trolling the player the sensitivity meter on these  young kids needs a calibration.   I didn't mind being "wrong" on Virtanen three years ago as I simply had lots of reasons to think he would emerge.   He hasn't fully by any stretch but he is showing the signs for sure.   I remain confident on OJ yet most, again, say I am "wrong" there too.   I must say this is the first instance of a Canuck prospect where people say I am being too hard....as I typically find the "please be patient and you will see" mantra needed when I am pointed as out being so "wrong" on my optimism for these kids.   Tryamkin lost a large chunk of my optimism when he left Canada and if he spends even one more full year in Russia, it will be almost gone and if two it will be pretty much zilch.

 

Apologies for having an opinion.   If I wanted to troll a player, you would know.

 

 

It's kind of sad Rob that you have to justify yourself over and over to these pair of zealots. 

Any criticism at all is treated like someone who has sinned in the eyes of the Mayan Court. 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

It's kind of sad Rob that you have to justify yourself over and over to these pair of zealots. 

Any criticism at all is treated like someone who has sinned in the eyes of the Mayan Court. 

I find it kinda cool to be responding to his mom and dad though - it makes it personal about the player.   I find the mom a bit more "whiny" about her boy but the dad reaches further.

[Alflives]

14 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

He won virtually every one on one battle in the corners that I saw. 

He was pretty much the only reason I watched the last 20 games that season.  I wanted to see him play.  I noticed he became more aggressive offensively too.  I was quite shocked his wife (likely) forced him back to Russia.

[alfstonker]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

He was pretty much the only reason I watched the last 20 games that season.  I wanted to see him play.  I noticed he became more aggressive offensively too.  I was quite shocked his wife (likely) forced him back to Russia.

Don't dig his wife up again Alf FFS or SS will black ball you and Hairy Kneel will rip the stitching out of your patches.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Personally, I liked how Tryamkin finished the season, and had noticed a gradual improvement. My opinion is he is of NHL quality, because after all he played in the NHL.

Pretty obvious, really. 

 

For my 2 cents worth, I think Rob is more Pssed Off, that Tryamkin actually had the chance to stick and gave it up, knowing just how hard it is just to get there. I get that.

But if you just look at Tryamkin as a first year player, you would have to be happy with the outcome. And if he doesn't stick next time, well no one will be sadder than Tryamkin, IMO.

 

I look at it as a personal choice, which he is entitled to...…..not happy he gave it up, but it was his choice. I just hope he does come back and makes the team, in a positive way

(top 4). Because I found him entertaining.

[CanucksJay]

Nikita took the last couple of years off from the NHL to secretly train in MMA while moonlighting as a hockey player in the KHL. 

When he comes back, his first fight will be with Jamie Benn and I predict a knockout. 

All joking aside, I wonder if fighting was one of the reasons he left. I think I read somewhere that he felt pressured to fight.  For someone that doesn't fight, he had to fight quite a few times in his rookie year as NHL tough guys wanted to measure him up. 

We all saw the mental health issues with fighters in the NHL (boogard, rypien, etc) Now imagine your just a defencemen who happens to be big but fighting doesn't come naturally. Your living across the world in a foreign city in your early 20s. Going into a game every night, you need to be aware that you can end up in a scrap vs their tough guy at any given moment. 

If the money was good in my hometown as well and I didn't have to worry about getting in scraps, maybe I'd go back too... 

 

 

[hammertime]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎10 at 7:40 AM, Rob_Zepp said:

I criticize him?   Wow.   OK.    I have said repeatedly that he was an intriguing prospect with some unique skills that could be developed.   That is what you mean as criticism?   Or was it his running back to Russia for whatever reason (real or invented) - that criticism?   Or is it that the number of players who have played in NHL, returned to KHL, and come back successfully is about the same number of shutouts Marky has in his career?    That criticism?   

 

How on earth is he being trolled?   What amazes me is this kid comes in, refuses a conditioning stint and then goes on to play some decent minutes as a rookie with glimpses of something better ahead for him and he is seemingly not happy with coaching, MaryJane odor, wife demands,....whatever, and he returns to Russia and signs a three year contract.   How that suddenly turned him into a top 4 Dman in the NHL when he was, at best, an intriguing prospect for a 30ish place NHL team simply is at odds with logic.   He made all kinds of basic mistakes while with Canucks but flashed some really nice looking potential which made him, per what I have said on him forever, INTRIGUING.    

 

The longer he stays from the NHL, the less likely he will be able to grasp the Dzone responsibilities, speed and fitness levels required.    My personal opinion, having seen players try this, is if he spends more than one more season away from NHL he will be incapable of catching back up.   That is my opinion.   I have no idea how that, or any of the above, is "trolling" the player as that opinion and my observations on him as shared widely.   

 

A few of you think of him as some sort of top 4 saviour for the Canucks.   Great.   Good on you and good for him to have such loyal fans.   The only issue I see with that as there is no empirical logic behind it nor is there much precedence with other similar players doing what he has done.   When you add an attitude that was "quit" versus "tough it out", one has to wonder as even a niggle in the brain is all it takes to separate a long professional career and a long NHL professional career.

 

Jeez, if this is trolling the player the sensitivity meter on these  young kids needs a calibration.   I didn't mind being "wrong" on Virtanen three years ago as I simply had lots of reasons to think he would emerge.   He hasn't fully by any stretch but he is showing the signs for sure.   I remain confident on OJ yet most, again, say I am "wrong" there too.   I must say this is the first instance of a Canuck prospect where people say I am being too hard....as I typically find the "please be patient and you will see" mantra needed when I am pointed as out being so "wrong" on my optimism for these kids.   Tryamkin lost a large chunk of my optimism when he left Canada and if he spends even one more full year in Russia, it will be almost gone and if two it will be pretty much zilch.

 

Apologies for having an opinion.   If I wanted to troll a player, you would know.

 

 

Though I do agree with much of what you have said. I think you have been unfairly harsh in your assessment of him. He was undeniably in my eye one of the top 4 D's on the Canucks if not top 3 when he was here. He was definitely out of shape and that needed to improve. he's a monster of a fella so short shifts will be key for him. I'm not overly sour that he left the Kid came over at 21 hardly spoke a lick of English, was shown Pronger tape and asked to emulate that douch bag, was told to protect everyone and likely felt incredibly unappreciated. I would imagine his experience with the Canucks and in NA wasn't an enjoyable one. He went back home where he felt more comfortable nothing to dislike there He was a kid in a foreign country filled with blue meanies. When he is 25 maybe he will see things differently and want to try a comeback. I don't think for a second that if or when he does come back that he will have regressed so far that he won't be a NHL caliber player. 

 

Honestly I don't think the Canucks did enough to help him transition to NA also I don't know that even if they did it would have helped. How would you feel as a 21yo if you moved to Russia to play hockey had no mentorship or anyone to talk to then constantly told you weren't good enough and asked to emulate Drago. I know I'd prob want to move back to Canada.

 

 

[alfstonker]

6 hours ago, hammertime said:

Though I do agree with much of what you have said. I think you have been unfairly harsh in your assessment of him. He was undeniably in my eye one of the top 4 D's on the Canucks if not top 3 when he was here. He was definitely out of shape and that needed to improve. he's a monster of a fella so short shifts will be key for him. I'm not overly sour that he left the Kid came over at 21 hardly spoke a lick of English, was shown Pronger tape and asked to emulate that douch bag, was told to protect everyone and likely felt incredibly unappreciated. I would imagine his experience with the Canucks and in NA wasn't an enjoyable one. He went back home where he felt more comfortable nothing to dislike there He was a kid in a foreign country filled with blue meanies. When he is 25 maybe he will see things differently and want to try a comeback. I don't think for a second that if or when he does come back that he will have regressed so far that he won't be a NHL caliber player. 

 

Honestly I don't think the Canucks did enough to help him transition to NA also I don't know that even if they did it would have helped. How would you feel as a 21yo if you moved to Russia to play hockey had no mentorship or anyone to talk to then constantly told you weren't good enough and asked to emulate Drago. I know I'd prob want to move back to Canada.

 

 

You should write for Disney.

Where exactly is Rob being unfairly harsh? In your eye (who knows what your eye is worth and who knows if it has better judgement than Rob's) he was one of the top four D's on the Canucks.

 

Let's see now Tanev? no. Edler? no. Stecher doubtful, given that Stech didn't have Tryamkin's 13 games the previous year and yet still scored 24 points to Tryamkin's 9 it's debatable.

 

Stech also had a better Corsi figures, almost 3x the Tk and the same Gv at 33. Stech also had 307 shots to Tryamkin's 162 and a better DPS. All this while Stech was competing for an average of 3+ more mins a night.

 

Hutton? maybe but not clear cut. Hutton also had a higher Corsi and played almost 3.1/2 more mins per night, almost 3x more Tk but 17more Gv, with 130 shots to Tryamkin's 65 Tryamkin had a better +/- of -7 to Hutton's -22.

 

Sbisa definitely not. Sbisa had a +/- of -1 despite playing the full 82 games and was second only to Tanev among Ds who played 29 fewer games. Both Sbisa and Stech also had higher PS figures and Sbisa had the highest DPS of all Ds. In all Sbisa's figures were better all round than Tryamkin's

 

Beiga also had higher Corsi figures and only half the Gv that Tryamkin had with the same Tk. Beiga had a higher PDO but lower DPS. He had 28 fewer shots while playing 30 fewer games. Hits is also an interesting stat, Biega while playing 30 fewer games had 48 fewer hits but this translated to Biega with 33 more hits at equal games played while Biega actually played an average of 4 mins less.

 

This leaves us with Larsen and Gudbranson both of whom had seasons to forget. Larsen due to general poor play and let's just put Gudy's down to injury, which would be fair.

So I don't agree that Tryamkin was demonstrably the 4th best D and I also think these stats showed that he was getting pretty fair time on ice. As Rob says the big guy was intriguing but far from the finished article. He made great strides through the season and there is no doubt there was the potential to become 3rd or 4th D but he wasn't there yet. I wonder if this discussion would be even taking place if we take away Tryamkins fights and skirmishes.

 

Oh the irony.

 

Because in all this debate what I find interesting is the hypocrisy of those who feel it is their place to attempt to browbeat the posters who have not fully engorged the Tryamkin kool-aid.

These people constantly whine about the coaches showing various videos (including HHOF, Norris, Hart and Kaminsky Trophy winner, Twice Olympic Gold medalist and Stanley Cup winner Chris Pronger) of big defenders who generally achieved all that there was in the game by utilising to the full their physical attributes.

 

What a silly thing to do - right? The point as I understand, the coaches were trying to get over in these videos was they all showed big Ds who achieved success by CONSISTENTLY using their large frames to intimidate the opposition - not to fight, not to cheap shot but to "bully" and bully consistently. This has two benefits, firstly it inspires team mates to copy and become "braver" and secondly it puts forwards off their game. You don't get a rep "for occasionally being physical" you get it for being a beast every night.

 

Yet what do we see from these hypocrites, they cream themselves over videos of Tryamkin knocking people on their ass and a few of him fighting - not many mind, given he played 66 games but enough for the hypocrites to salivate over while whining that Tryamkin shouldn't have to do these sorts of things.

Whether some on here have the savvy to understand it or not, these coaches wanted what was best for Tryamkin, they wanted to improve his game (and they did, markedly) they wanted to demonstrate the importance of top fitness and using your god given attributes to further your career and realise your potential.

 

One more thing, we hear a lot about how the management could have done more, maybe so, none of us know what they did for him. However what they did do for him was get him an interpreter and while Tryamkin apparently didn't speak the language very well (team mates said he understood a lot more than he let on) he was not struck dumb and he could have made his "complaints/needs" known to the management through the interpreter or even his agent. What did his agent do to help Tryamkin's dilemma, not much it appears. You might have thought being a Russian himself he might have at least helped to fix him up with a better placed apartment and some Russian speaking friends etc for the big bucks he was making.