[PGT] Ducks 4, Vancouver 0

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, hobart16 said:

Biega left for airport this morning said he got called up. 

Thank F at least he doesn't mess about. He is a D who when in doubt takes the man and that is what we don't have enough of. He is gritty and also has a decent slapper.

It probably means Pedan doesn't play though as I doubt we want to pay two call ups at once on D.

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

 

I think of Montreal's Gallagher when I watch McCann.  A true fighter who hates to lose and will fight even if he knows he can't win. WE have precious little of that on this team.

Yes there is a mean streak there. Another 10 lbs and he will be laying waste to defences like a demented viking.

[Mcfly]

Kesler just doing his usual Kesler thing. 

If Horvat is the leader he is steadily panning out to becoming, then I'd say it just rolled right off his back anyways.

It's more than likely that Kes has said some pretty unwholesome things while playing in Van... and now we get a taste of it back.

...in the end though... I miss his "musk"

I can't help miss his style of play. He's paid the price for playing his way and like a lot of other vet Canucks, probably deserves a cup, whether you like him or dislike him.

 

Though I don't cheer for him anymore... Kes fan for life.

 

 

[Rocksterh8]

1 hour ago, Green Goblin said:

you're* 

sorry... I thought it was ironic how you were trying to be witty with intelligence while making an error in grammar.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll use spellcheck next time just for you!

[NHTyrany]

10 hours ago, canuktravella said:

 i say   keep sedins edler sutter prust barto sbisa hutton tanev horvat crackers mccann virt bartchi burr   miller markstrom but rest of team package for upgraded d 

hansen and vrbata  to isles for hamonic  solidifies isles wingers for playoff run  if vrbata doesnt sign an extension  we give a 3rd 

dorsett and hamhuis to panthers for a 1st  retain half their salaries

2 vets help panthers get to playoffs 

waive weber

trade vey and jensen for b level defensive prospects anywhere 

 

sedin sedin burr

baertchi sutter virtanen

gaunce   horvat mccann

prust cracker grenier

shinkaruk 13th forward

edler tanev

hutton hamonic

sbisa pedan

bartoski

miller 

markstrom 

 

9 young guys but much tougher to play against and much faster team 

Interesting proposal. I don't think there should be any "untouchables". It's all subject to what's best for the team. For example, wonder what kind of D prospect we could get for McCann, Horvat, or even Sutter. 

[Canada Hockey Place]

[oldnews]

WD is a gem and he's here to stay.

Folks need to cut out the bullcrap contradiction that underlies most of the whining around here.

On one hand, they expected, even advocate a tank.

On the other hand, they expect WD to have collected all available points and blame all losses on his coaching decisions.  Ridiculous.

First of all - as noted many times - the team has been in virtually every game this year.

Second, as noted last night, no other team has held every opponent to 4 or less goals this season - and last night's season's worst performance featured a horrible softy goal that essentially sunk any hopes of a comeback from the get-go at the start of the 3rd.

WD has dealt with a full handful of rookies in his lineup virtually every night.

He's also had key veterans rotated in and out with injuries on a regular basis.  Sutter, Tanev, Hamhuis, Prust, Higgins - and Hutton.

I think a lot of people would have been surprised if this team - if healthy - had managed to keep itself in striking distance of a playoff spot.

Well WD has taken not only a rookie laden lineup, but one also further challenged by key subtractions - and he has not only kept this team at the .500 mark, but has also kept them in practically every game.   Spare me the 'loser' point crapola - points opposition teams pick up in contrived 3on3 and shootout situations have no bearing on real hockey and have nothing to do with how games are decided in the postseason - those 'winner' points can easily be seen as propping up misleading records as the Canucks' .500 record be perceived as not 'really' .500.  Fact is, they were leading or tied in 16 of 25 games at the end of regulation this year - so there's the counterpoint.

Let's face it - under the circumstances, the team needs Miller to be stellar - and if he's going to let a soft goal in every contest (yeah, he's played well otherwise) - they're simply not going to be leading the division.  Who among you expected them to anyhow?  So cut the nonsense about scapegoating the coach.  Most of your complaints regarding how he has utilized his lineup are nonsense - and are not at the core of the losses. 

WD is doing a great job - some of you can whine all you want about singular, cherry-picked matters that you extrapolate to explain all losses, to be blamed on the coach - but you're deluded and engaging in the typical CDC thirst for whipping-boys.  It says more about you than it does the coach.

[jmahyoung]

I don't think the problem is the coach.

And we already let Torts go well before his contract expired. I wouldn't want the Canucks to become a revolving door of coaching changes. Give him a chance to work.

I'm a believer in this team. But I also think we could use the high draft spot. Unfortunately it's looking more and more like the latter.

 

[DIBdaQUIB]

22 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Yes there is a mean streak there. Another 10 lbs and he will be laying waste to defences like a demented viking.

I hope as his confidence and strength increase we see that. 

[alfstonker]

2 hours ago, Tech N9ne said:

Personally, I wouldn't want to see him let go. But I would like to have him tax players more for errors regardless of "experience" or "talent". That, and for games similar to yesterday, WD really should be mixing up the lines trying to get a spark somewhere.

Except we don't know what he is saying to them behind closed doors. I suspect he does tell them to give themselves a shake but at the end of the day they are what they are, let's not kid ourselves, we all knew that. Rome wasn't built in a day but I have no problem with the guy coaching the team.

When we praise Tanev we know we are praising his cool head and his poise. Not his ability to push back or stand up for himself or anyone else. We know that right?

When we praise the Sedins it's for their deft skills, their toughness and their resilience. It's not for getting in an opponents face or hurtling them into the boards.

When we praise Bo, it's for face-off wins neat passes and speed to the net. I have never once see him use his 206lbs frame to staple someone to the boards or knocking a defender on his ass.

I can go through the whole roster and it's nearly all the same. Apart from the 4th line, Sbisa and I have to say Hansen, Burr, now McCann (I also think Hutton is in the same mould despite the smiling countenance) we just don't have the type of players who will set lines in the sand. No team knows that better than the Ducks now but word will soon get around.

Say what you like about Bieksa but certain players didn't take liberties when he was on the ice and we saw last night how he manhandled Tanev with impunity.

This team has reached their lowest ebb when it comes to pushback and frankly most of these players will never change so it is up to JB to make the changes for them.

[aGENT]

Coaching's fine IMO. 

I'd say it's time to realize our D was sketchy when healthy, is now banged up and we've been missing some key defensive forwards as well, notably Sutter. Also that this is a transition year with a LOT of youth playing and we were just as likely to make as miss the playoffs from the get go.

I'm sticking with my 6-10 prediction from the off season. And it has very little to do with how well WD does/doesn't coach, especially as perceived by Canuck Nation.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Except we don't know what he is saying to them behind closed doors. I suspect he does tell them to give themselves a shake but at the end of the day they are what they are, let's not kid ourselves, we all knew that. Rome wasn't built in a day but I have no problem with the guy coaching the team.

When we praise Tanev we know we are praising his cool head and his poise. Not his ability to push back or stand up for himself or anyone else. We know that right?

When we praise the Sedins it's for their deft skills, their toughness and their resilience. It's not for getting in an opponents face or hurtling them into the boards.

When we praise Bo, it's for face-off wins neat passes and speed to the net. I have never once see him use his 206lbs frame to staple someone to the boards or knocking a defender on his ass.

I can go through the whole roster and it's nearly all the same. Apart from the 4th line, Sbisa and I have to say Hansen, Burr, now McCann (I also think Hutton is in the same mould despite the smiling countenance) we just don't have the type of players who will set lines in the sand. No team knows that better than the Ducks now but word will soon get around.

Say what you like about Bieksa but certain players didn't take liberties when he was on the ice and we saw last night how he manhandled Tanev with impunity.

This team has reached their lowest ebb when it comes to pushback and frankly most of these players will never change so it is up to JB to make the changes for them.

Meanness is a great thing to have in your best players, that's for sure.  

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, TimberWolf said:

 

Many GM's announce rebuilds.

 

The thing we need to ask is if Benning thought he could fool the fans into thinking this team could be competitive or does he actually think he built a competitive team? Just because this team is in a transition doesn't mean the management gets to just merrily walk away from having the opposite kind of season they predicted. We wouldn't let Gillis get away with that, why would we let benning?

 

But the biggest was the whole winning enviroment debacle. Lots of experts agreed that the Canucks need to do one or the other. Either try to win or rebuild. not both at the same time but management is trying both tried to sell it as a winning environment for our rookies to grow in. Does this mean our rookies are doomed because the vets have as much pushback as moldy Styrofoam?

 

The Aquilinis want butts in seats, and by having Benning spin his yarn, they thought that it would work.

Attendance is clearly dwindling as people aren't interested (and I mean actual hockey fans who follow the team, not the vacuous corporate crowd and the selfie brigade) in watching a team with no clear identity go through the motions anymore. The Sedins are still awesome, and Hansen is having a season to remember, but the remainder of the old core is sucking wind and boring as hell.

Who would want to pay the inflated ticket prices to watch this in person, when one can sit at home and cheer how they like and not pay $8 for a hot dog?

[The Lock]

Just now, J.R. said:

Coaching's fine IMO. 

I'd say it's time to realize our D was sketchy when healthy, is now banged up and we've been missing some key defensive forwards as well, notably Sutter. Also that this is a transition year with a LOT of youth playing and we were just as likely to make as miss the playoffs from the get go.

I'm sticking with my 6-10 prediction from the off season. And it has very little to do with how well WD does/doesn't coach, especially as perceived by Canuck Nation.

The way I see it, in times like these, building a team on the ice is more important than the coaching itself. I don't really care who's coaching at this point. Not to discount coaching as it still helps develop players still. However, the coach can only go so far as the team that's in front of it, no matter how much they push (ie. Trotz and Nashville).

[VanGnome]

Seems like weber is generating good will in advance of his deadline trade to Anaheim.

[alfstonker]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

No yet. I say we give him the rest of the year.  A coaching change won’t really help us right now.  

Sure this team has been close in games… but losing in OT is just as deflating as losing by one goal in regulation.  The only difference is that extra point.  Canucks are not winning.  Winning is what build confidence, chemistry and ultimately what gets you into playoffs.  Right now canucks only have 1 more win that the last placed Flames/Oilers.  Think about that for a moment, without the pity point we are in the same position as the oilers.   Canucks have only won 9 out of 25 games. 

When Tort got fired canucks finished the last half of the year off with 13 wins in their final 41 games.  12 of those loses were by 1 goal.  20 of them were by 2 goals. But in the first half Canucks were top 10 in the league and ended the season with 83 points.  This year Canucks are on pace to finish the year off with 82 points.  So yes, unless Canucks can turn this around and finish the year off with 92+ points I would say WD is gone, and it’s justified.  Hartley just won the Jack Adams last year and Calgary is already discussing that he will likely be gone by year end as well, it happens, it’s a business and if you don’t get it done, there are other qualified coaches that are begging for the opportunity to show that they can. 

Sure canucks are in a transition and that’s what you get when you insert rookies into the lineup but….Until we got a slew of injuries.  WD wasn’t playing the rookies.  Even now he’s still benching a Virtanen or Baertschi each game. How do you transition into youth without giving them fair opportunity.  Transition means living with the bumps and mistakes rookies make.  Not benching and healthy scratching every time they make a mistake.  Without injuries both Baertschi and Virtanen likely sit in the press box.  And to be honest what is that accomplishing.  It’s clearly not helping us win.  It’s not just Baerstschi and Virtanen.  Look at the players in the system as well,  Kenins, Gaunce, Grenier, Shinkaruk, Pedan.  How will we know what they can accomplish at the NHL if we don’t give them the opportunity.  

This team has till after Christmas to turn things around.  If we continue with similar play that we’ve seen from the first two months, than it’s time for a different approach.   A poor month in December could easily put us outside of the playoff chase.  In that case there’s no point of playing Higgins, Prust, Dorsett, Vbrata a ton of minutes.  We already know what they can do, we’ve already used half a season giving them opportunity only to see it’s not working.  By that time, our focus should then be…. what can the young guys do. 

What good does it do to the team playing Higgins over Gaunce/Baertschi/Shinkaruk when the team is out of a playoff chance.  Long term it’s better for us to find out how these young player handle when being called at the NHL level. A player like Markstrom should be giving a ton more games and NHL experience.   Losing games and benching your rookies accomplishes nothing.  If we’re going to lose, we might get rookie development out of it. 

And if we fire WD at the year the year. I would say Green is a good candidate.  He’s already familiar with our players, system and future core. 

What may I ask is going to change by the end of the year? Not much, so to say give the coach the rest of the year is silly. He should be given another 3 years to accommodate all the rookies and bed them in. He is barely a quarter of way through the process he was assigned and let's not forget we have no top 3 picks amongst our rookies so development will take time.

People should stop all this stupid stuff about changing coaches. Most of you are the same idiots that wanted rid of AV.

[oldnews]

There are a number of things about last night's game that I think are somewhat lost in a lack of context.

Yes, a guy like Juice bolstered this team's pushback - no question - unfortunately, the between whistles cost was exceeding the after the whistles benefits - so Bartkowski was brought in and simply makes this team better between the whistles. 

Also, imo the loss of Kassian has also set back this team's ability to equalize - to pose and opposite threat that the opposition simply wasn't necessarily prepared to entertain for the most part.  I miss the deterrent that he brought to the lineup.   Unfortunately, like the Bieksa deal. there were other, more fundamental concerns that over-rode the positives that they brought.

As for the grit that was in the lineup - let's face it - the Anaheim Ducks are a team of weasels.  We can biarch all we want about the lack of response from Prust and Dorsett - but when you get down to it, the guys taking liberties and handing out the cheap shots last night - they picked their spots in a home game where they had the last change.  None of those incidents took place with a guy like Prust or Dorsett on the ice - they did what cowards do and targetted rookies when the opportunity presented itself.  The only one I have any respect for is Getzlaf - who appropriately refrained from carrying it further when McCann laid a nice hit on him, he retailiated and threw the rookie down - and that was the end of it.  Perhaps Dorsett or Prust could have instigated or answered after the fact - but that's a grey area that this team hasn't always engaged in - and to the point the Miller let in that groaner, the team was still conceivably in comeback striking distance.  At 3-0, you can potentially justify retribution - but at the same time, you have a young lineup that you don't necessarily want to expose.  So, it was an imperfect storm of sorts - and the team simply needs to take a few numbers and send a message early and clearly the next time we get that group of dweebs in our building.

[lmm]

33 minutes ago, oldnews said:

WD is a gem and he's here to stay.

Folks need to cut out the bullcrap contradiction that underlies most of the whining around here.

On one hand, they expected, even advocate a tank.

On the other hand, they expect WD to have collected all available points and blame all losses on his coaching decisions.  Ridiculous.

First of all - as noted many times - the team has been in virtually every game this year.

Second, as noted last night, no other team has held every opponent to 4 or less goals this season - and last night's season's worst performance featured a horrible softy goal that essentially sunk any hopes of a comeback from the get-go at the start of the 3rd.

WD has dealt with a full handful of rookies in his lineup virtually every night.

He's also had key veterans rotated in and out with injuries on a regular basis.  Sutter, Tanev, Hamhuis, Prust, Higgins - and Hutton.

I think a lot of people would have been surprised if this team - if healthy - had managed to keep itself in striking distance of a playoff spot.

Well WD has taken not only a rookie laden lineup, but one also further challenged by key subtractions - and he has not only kept this team at the .500 mark, but has also kept them in practically every game.   Spare me the 'loser' point crapola - points opposition teams pick up in contrived 3on3 and shootout situations have no bearing on real hockey and have nothing to do with how games are decided in the postseason - those 'winner' points can easily be seen as propping up misleading records as the Canucks' .500 record be perceived as not 'really' .500.  Fact is, they were leading or tied in 16 of 25 games at the end of regulation this year - so there's the counterpoint.

Let's face it - under the circumstances, the team needs Miller to be stellar - and if he's going to let a soft goal in every contest (yeah, he's played well otherwise) - they're simply not going to be leading the division.  Who among you expected them to anyhow?  So cut the nonsense about scapegoating the coach.  Most of your complaints regarding how he has utilized his lineup are nonsense - and are not at the core of the losses. 

WD is doing a great job - some of you can whine all you want about singular, cherry-picked matters that you extrapolate to explain all losses, to be blamed on the coach - but you're deluded and engaging in the typical CDC thirst for whipping-boys.  It says more about you than it does the coach.

I agree with you and do not advocate a coaching change. However the bolded can explain how the Canucks made the playoffs last year and why they folded so quickly once there.  

[Jack Fig]

Willie is being asked to coach a team in transition. He's got old, tired guys who just want to collect their cheques in a non-threatening environment and he's now getting some young guys who have things to prove and an NHL career to carve out. Although I don't like some of his decisions, this mess isn't on Willie. It's not even on Benning, because he can only change over the roster so much in any given period. This is where we are. A room halfway through a renovation. No room halfway through a renovation ever looks good and it really isn't very functional. Willie proved with last season's pedestrian squad that he's a good coach. He deserves a chance to coach this team when all the deadwood is gone and it can proceed with enthusiasm. But until the rest of this dead core is gone, there isn't much that can be rightfully expected of the team or the coach.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

43 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

What may I ask is going to change by the end of the year? Not much, so to say give the coach the rest of the year is silly. He should be given another 3 years to accommodate all the rookies and bed them in. He is barely a quarter of way through the process he was assigned and let's not forget we have no top 3 picks amongst our rookies so development will take time.

People should stop all this stupid stuff about changing coaches. Most of you are the same idiots that wanted rid of AV.

Why give him the rest of the season? Because. Let’s see how WD buys into the transition when the team is completely out of a playoff spot.  Will he still have loyalty to the vets even though most of them aren’t part of the plan long term? 

Accommodate?  You mean have them ride the pine or sit in the stands, watching higgins, Dorsett and Vbrata give weak efforts.  This is a "transition" year not the watch aging vets play out the remainder of their contract.  I'm sorry I want something to look back on this season and say we accomplished something,  Prospect development. 

I can’t say for everyone but my opinion isn’t completely based on the poor start this team has had this season,  It’s a combination of things, but mostly how WD uses the assets on the team, and I’m not giving up on him… yet.  I’ll give him the rest of the year and see if he starts to buy into an actual transition.

The problem with saying it’s a transition year is you actually have to play the rookies.  You put them out in situations and live with mistakes.  You give them regular ice time(even in the 3^rd),  If it ends up costing you the game, you deal with it, teach them in video and practice what to do better and move on to the next game in hopes that they learn and grow as players.  That’s what a transition is.

Not putting the kids on the bench and in the stands watching Higgins, Vbrata, Prust and Dorsett play 15+ minutes per game accomplishing nothing.  If we want call it a transition year.  Let’s play it like a transition year, in hopes that next year our youth is that much better for the “in game” experiences they got.   

It also shouldn’t be concerning about the amount of coaching changes that we are going through either.  When teams don’t make the post season they often have high turnover in coaching jobs,  Last year 7 teams made coaching changes.

 

PS only the stupid people can't realized that coaches have shelf lives with teams and AV's had run out with us.  He needed to go, but that doesn't mean he is a bad coach just needed a fresh start.