Benning's War plan: How to proceed into the deadline, draft and free agency

[CanucksJay]

23 hours ago, Mattrek said:

 

There is no way I'd give up Horvat for either of those players regardless of how good they are. He has an incredible skill set and a hockey IQ that can't be taught plus he has tremendous leadership skills, which will be needed after the Sedins retire. He's being groomed as the future captain of the Canucks. McCann you could convince me to do that though.

I agree. If Horvat continues to develop and is able to play at a similar level to Bergeron in 2011, I would take him over a superstar. Guys like Horvat,  Bergeron, Toews win cups. 

I'm not interested in any more regular season trophies like the presidents trophy. I want high compete 200ft players that are a pain in the ass to play against in a gruelling 7 game series. 

Plus, Horvat is built like a fricking ox and has speed and strength. Event though he doesn't hit much, it hurts playing guys like that and it wears you down. 

[messier's_elbow]

14 hours ago, smokes said:

Benning is in a tough spot though just cause every team in the Pacific division sucks. So even though they have not won as many games as others, they still got a chance at a playoff spot. As of now, no one knows if they are buyers and sellers.

We have good prospects and they are great young kids but are they better than the other great young kids in opposing teams? I like McCann and Virtanen and all but at the same time, there are much better rookies in the league than what we have. Players like Domi, Duclair, Panarin, Eichel, Larkin....truly overshadows the rookies on the Canucks, The thing though is that most of these guys spent a little more time developing one more year in juniors and in the AHL. Usually only the special ones jump from juniors to the NHL at such a young age, Sometimes, I feel like they are still not ready for it yet. As of now, I like the promise of Horvat, McCann, and virtanen but to me, neither really scream out future first line center. I'm hoping Benning can pull off a good trade for a good young high end player.

The play in the division is just sad this year. We haven't played many good teams lately though. I think we might dip lower.

[missioncanucksfan]

On Friday, January 08, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Bert Diesel said:

This club has now has reasonable to above average prospect depth in the forwards with the likes of McCan, Horvat, Baertschi, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Boeser, Grenier and even Anton Rodin(scoring well in Sweden) all with potential to be NHL'ers. There are also some veteran guys obviously still being productive; Hansen, Sedins, a healthy Sutter, Vrbata and Dorsett being relatively effective in their respective roles.

We don't have a grade A offensive prospect but the glaring need on this team is on defense. Vancouver is weak in the big club, farm, and prospect pool compared to most of the league on the blue-line. Our blue-line has not had an elite puck mover in his prime since Ehrhoff and still lacks a physical presence.

We also don't know what we have in Pedan, Subban, Tryamkin and other prospects like Sautner and Carl Neil. Biega looks like he may stick and Sbisa has started to become more of an effective shutdown guy until his injury. Hutton has been a hugely positive surprise but would be better served being given easier minutes. Having him on an entry level contract for three years is incredibly positive for Vancouver and its fans.

Bartowski, Weber and Hamhuis before injury have been particularly horrendous. All three are in need of an upgrade if this team is to become a well-rounded contender while the Sedin's are still productive. With all three on expiring contracts I want to get your opinion on who we could target to upgrade the D for next season. I see no reason to make a trade for a d man this season. Go with what we have and load up in the draft. If were lucky we'll have one of the top 5-8 picks and be able to land one of Matthews, Puljarvi, Laine, Tkachuk, Nylander, Gauthier or one of the top defensive prospects like Chychrun, Juolevi, Sergaychev,  Fabbro. Draft the best player available; this draft is too important to not land a stud in this seemingly powerful draft year. We should accumulate picks in the draft for Prust, Vrbata, and anyone who would do us a favor and take Higgins, Bartowski or Weber. Hamhuis should stay only if he takes a significant haircut and signs for under 2.5 million for short term. His play has slowly declined and i'm sure this current injury will not help.STOCK UP ON MORE D MEN IN THE LATER ROUNDS OF THE DRAFT.

In the Summer prioritize a UFA from the current pool of defense-man. Overpay a little if we must. Don't worry about Lucic until one or two solid defenseman are signed.

We will have around 16-18 million in cap room

Here is what i'm thinking in regards to free agent priority.(estimated salaries) I'M NOT SAYING THESE GUYS WOULD SIGN HERE; JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH THE CANUCKS WOULD BE WILLING TO SPEND ON THEM.

1. Alex Goligoski 6-7 million

2 .Keith Yandle 6-8 million

3. Dustin Bfugylien if he can fit into the dressing room culture. 6.5-7.5

4. Jason Demers 4-5 million

5. Milan Lucic if he takes a hometown discount; we could stomach term. 5-6 million

6. Brian Campbell on a short term contract 3yr max. 4-5 million

7. Andrew Ladd : also B.C. connection 5.5-6.5 million; no more than 4 year term(that would make it un-likey)

8. Jiri Hudler 5.5-6.5

9. Resign Radim Vrbata 3.5-4.5

10. Kyle Quincey/Brayden Coburn/ Niklas Grossman  around 3-4

What do you people think? What would be your draft/ free agent priorities?

There is also the crop of free agents that become available each spring. 

One particular defenceman I've been tracking for a few years is Ahti Oksanen out of Boston University. 6'3 207lbs and usually point per game guy.

They all make entry level contracts but the way to win the bids is the promise of ice-time.

 

[Fan since 82]

On 08/01/2016 at 8:41 AM, WHL rocks said:

You don't trade either of Horvat, McCann or Virtanen to move up in the draft. They are already 2+ years into development and future core of the team. If you trade one of them you set yourself back a couple of years in the rebuild.

This team needs a couple more prospects that are further along in development, like JB made moves for Baer and Vey, he needs to add couple more like that, Drouin would be good.

Any of the other prospects sure, but none of Horvat, Canner, Virtanen or Hutton.

One of those 3 forwards plus our first would be worth it if it gets you a top 3 pick. I only leave Hutton out of the mix because our D depth is so poor. It would be hard to lose Horvat (Virt and McCann would hurt less imo) but for Matthews, Puljujarvi, or Tkachuk you gotta do it.

[EdgarM]

On 08/01/2016 at 0:41 AM, WHL rocks said:

You don't trade either of Horvat, McCann or Virtanen to move up in the draft. They are already 2+ years into development and future core of the team. If you trade one of them you set yourself back a couple of years in the rebuild.

This team needs a couple more prospects that are further along in development, like JB made moves for Baer and Vey, he needs to add couple more like that, Drouin would be good.

Any of the other prospects sure, but none of Horvat, Canner, Virtanen or Hutton.

By that logic we would still have Hodgson, Schroeder and Jensen. Schneider is the last prospect who was successfully drafted and developed properly that I recall. Don't know if we need anymore prospects such as Vey.

This team needs to work towards replacing the Sedin's and a top Dman and stop HOPING that EVERY prospect is going to successfully make the jump to the NHL. If we can trade for a young PROVEN NHL'er who fills a need then why not fill that need.

[Bert Diesel]

With Etem now in the fold we have a glut of depth forwards under 23 moving forward. We may not have room for all of Boeser, Shikaruk, Gaunce, Virtanen, McCan, Rodin, etc. Maybe we flip one of these guys for prospects/ young defenceman of comparable age at the deadline or draft?

Also, what happens when everyone is healthy? Does Virtanen go down? We can't carry three extra forwards on the roster. It will be interesting to see what Benning does. The Etem trade may have made a Prust/Vrbata trade imminent. If we could find someone to take Higgins off our cap next season; even with a bit of retained salary, that would be ideal. One of our only remaining bad contracts.

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Burrows Sutter Virtanen

Baertschi Horvat Vrbata

Dorsett Mccan Etem

extra forwards

Higgins

Prust

Cracknell

 

[alfstonker]

23 hours ago, smokes said:

Benning is in a tough spot though just cause every team in the Pacific division sucks. So even though they have not won as many games as others, they still got a chance at a playoff spot. As of now, no one knows if they are buyers and sellers.

We have good prospects and they are great young kids but are they better than the other great young kids in opposing teams? I like McCann and Virtanen and all but at the same time, there are much better rookies in the league than what we have. Players like Domi, Duclair, Panarin, Eichel, Larkin....truly overshadows the rookies on the Canucks, The thing though is that most of these guys spent a little more time developing one more year in juniors and in the AHL. Usually only the special ones jump from juniors to the NHL at such a young age, Sometimes, I feel like they are still not ready for it yet. As of now, I like the promise of Horvat, McCann, and virtanen but to me, neither really scream out future first line center. I'm hoping Benning can pull off a good trade for a good young high end player.

I don't think you are comparing like with like though.

Only Eichel and Larkin are the same age as McCann and Virt and both of them have played against men in the USA College system.  By the way, Panarin is 24 years old that's 5 years older.

I think you should revisit the comparison in a years time to make it fair. So in fairness they may not overshadow the Canucks rookies in real terms. A more realistic comparison would be Horvat.

[smokes]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

I don't think you are comparing like with like though.

Only Eichel and Larkin are the same age as McCann and Virt and both of them have played against men in the USA College system.  By the way, Panarin is 24 years old that's 5 years older.

I think you should revisit the comparison in a years time to make it fair. So in fairness they may not overshadow the Canucks rookies in real terms. A more realistic comparison would be Horvat.

That is my point though. besides 2 18 year olds all the other rookies are older because they came up from Juniors and for the the AHL/KHL. They have been developed into their rookie NHL year. McCann and Virtanen have shown that they are not nearly as ready as they should be. What I don't seem to understand is why a Virtanen should be in the NHL while Shinkaruk and Gaunce are arguable more ready for the NHL game. While Vey has had his struggles one can also argue that he would be definately better on the faceoff circle than McCann. What is this need to rush 18 year olds?

[alfstonker]

3 minutes ago, smokes said:

That is my point though. besides 2 18 year olds all the other rookies are older because they came up from Juniors and for the the AHL/KHL. They have been developed into their rookie NHL year. McCann and Virtanen have shown that they are not nearly as ready as they should be. What I don't seem to understand is why a Virtanen should be in the NHL while Shinkaruk and Gaunce are arguable more ready for the NHL game. While Vey has had his struggles one can also argue that he would be definately better on the faceoff circle than McCann. What is this need to rush 18 year olds?

I understand. Agreed.

[kloubek]

I think JB should get whatever he can for the vets on the team not named Sedin in return for prospects for the blue line. It's clear we have a team that might make the playoffs, but cannot possibly contend. And if you can't contend, what's the point?  

With the young forwards we have in the system, we cannot afford to do a half rebuild any more, nor lose players to free agency without getting anything back. 

We don't have a glut of forwards, really. We have a glut of prospects, some of which will never be nhl regulars.  For forwards, we still need a franchise player and the rest will sort itself out with the Sedins likely dropping to a 2nd line supporting role.  We need to lose our remaining  veteran forwards in favour of a similar prospect pool for our defensive core.

The best thing for this team is not to make the playoffs. It's to get what we can for our ufas, which will also help us tank for the best pick in the upcoming draft. 

[McCannon]

Very good questions and a great post. I think you forgot to mention Virtanen in your list of young talented forwards

My view on 'what to do' is the following:

1. Don't waste FA money on players who won't be here or close to their prime for the next run (ie big name UFA's) - Buff for instance. He will want money and term and by the time this group is ready 3 years to even compete, maybe 4/5 to contend he will have aged - he plays hard / physical minutes = mileage. He's already 30

2. Same could be argued for Lucic but he's 27, I am willing to do this and I think Benning wants him, He has stated he's like to play at home. He's won a cup, local boy, the hangover from the Cup run is gone, people will embrace him AND very importantly, he will teach  / mentor Virtanen on what it takes to be a power forward in the NHL. No better tutor than the most feared one out there. I sign him

3. Hammer is not horrendous. You ignore who he's been paired with, who he matches up against (always the best of the opponent). We've seen how he plays with a good partner in international tournaments, that is not all of a sudden 'gone'. He's been paired with journeymen or awful players this year (Weber)...That being said, I only try and re-sign him after we trade him at the deadline and as a UFA (my guess is rather than move his life he'd resign after a rental for a cup). Most teams looking for defensive stabilty as contenders will LOVE him. Slots in easily in the top 4. I approach Washington, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, maybe back to Nashville. I'd love to see he and Vrbata tied together and sent to a team looking to go all in, would increase the value returned.. Ie Can we pry a pick and Theodore from Anaheim if they are back in it, and they seem to be waking up. Maybe we pry Bowey and a pick from Washington, etc...but that's the type of deal I'd like to see. Helps us now as both of those players are ready to make the jump, doesn't lock us into an aging vet and gets us a pick. We then re-sign Hammer as a solid 3/4 for one -2 years and then as he slows he migrates to the bottom pairing providing a terrific stay at home vet for a run. This makes the most sense and is the best move in a cap world in my view.

4. I like Vrbata but I am not sure how happy he is here / if he wants to resign. I can see him wanting to play for a shot for a cup in the near term (he's what 33? It's his last 3 yr contract) playing on a top line with some real dynamic players. Since his twins time is gone, I can see him wanting to go to a team like Montreal, Washington, Pitts, Chicago, even Anaheim. I also think he'll get more money than what you suggested. He's having an off year, playing with 2 rookies, teams know what they have in this guy. Pair him with Crosby, on Getzlaf's wing, with OV/Backstrom, Toews you're going to get 30+ guaranteed and decent 2 way play. In fact I can see Pitts really wanting him for Sid or Washington for the run and going all in (again this is a great partner for both he and hammer in my view and we should be able to pry a first and Bowey for them). Regardless, if he goes to any of those names, you  make all of those teams much stronger either next year if its via UFA, or this year as a contender if a trade.

 

[altman]

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 6:57 PM, LaBamba said:

If we are +\- 5 points of a playoff position we aren't trading away any pending UFA's. We will take the same approach as last deadline. 

If he can acquire a pending RFA that is a fringe NHL player with some upside he may surrender a 2nd or higher to add the player, but that is about as far as he goes IMO. 

He has said on multiple occasions that trading away his prospect depth is completely out of the question.

i don't know why people insist on otherwise. 

If we do fall off a cliff, he might move a few players for some picks, but with players soon to return off the IR I highly doubt that will happen. 

get rid of chris higgins

[stawns]

On 08/01/2016 at 10:43 AM, harpdog said:

Dear Mr. Jim Benning

You don't trade Horvat. He has more value. He is a shut down performer with faceoff skills(good ones are hard to find) and a young leader. Clearing veterans for the sake of salary caps is not a bad thing. There will be better bargains at the end of the season. Hamuis can go and Miller for too that matter. Verbrata is one of the worst defensive forwards and leaves defense men out to dry all the time and is not a good resignee option.  The time has come to use your Brains and not your heart. The Comets will go deep into the AHL playoffs  again and will provide  invaluable for players on the cusp as it did last year with Markstrom, and Baertchi.

Dear Mr Harpdog.........you're crazy if you think Bo is anywhere near the player Mathews, Pulijarvi or Laine is.  Gaunce can be as effective a shutdown C as Bo........or close enough to make it worth moving bo

[McCannon]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Dear Mr Harpdog.........you're crazy if you think Bo is anywhere near the player Mathews, Pulijarvi or Laine is.  Gaunce can be as effective a shutdown C as Bo........or close enough to make it worth moving bo

Bo won't be traded unless it means Matthews...the other 2 are wingers and we are set for a decade at center (a foundational position) with Bo and McCann. Matthews would arguably make one of those guys redundant, and it would be hard to keep them both happy long term to be honest. Maybe Bo would accept being a 3rd line center for life but I doubt it, he's too good.

So, if there is even a discussion about Bo the only way it happens is because we have a superstar 1c coming in via a trade for 1st overall. There is no way Benning would ever move that kid otherwise, and thankfully so, he's a keeper.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, McCannon said:

Bo won't be traded unless it means Matthews...the other 2 are wingers and we are set for a decade at center (a foundational position) with Bo and McCann. Matthews would arguably make one of those guys redundant, and it would be hard to keep them both happy long term to be honest. Maybe Bo would accept being a 3rd line center for life but I doubt it, he's too good.

So, if there is even a discussion about Bo the only way it happens is because we have a superstar 1c coming in via a trade for 1st overall. There is no way Benning would ever move that kid otherwise, and thankfully so, he's a keeper.

Pulijarvi played C in the wjhc did he not?

[McCannon]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

Pulijarvi played C in the wjhc did he not?

He's a natural winger from my understanding and most listings...

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=152117

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=176931

http://www.tsn.ca/forwards-dominate-top-of-2016-nhl-prospect-race-1.391662

[Crabcakes]

Benning in HNIC interview says that this summer, the Canucks will be in the free agent market.

That's what we expect and JB confirms that but what does it mean?  They will have all sorts of cap room for starters and cap room comes from UFA's being traded or just not being re-signed.  Hmmm.....

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

Dear Mr Harpdog.........you're crazy if you think Bo is anywhere near the player Mathews, Pulijarvi or Laine is.  Gaunce can be as effective a shutdown C as Bo........or close enough to make it worth moving bo

I like Bo. 

Only way to keep Bo, and get a chance to win Laine, Puljujarvi and Matthews, is to KEEP LOSING. 

And miss the playoffs. 

We need a top 10 pick at least. 

Tampa just scored. 2-1 Lightning! C'mon TAMPA! 

[westcoast]

People make a big deal as if we've hit rock bottom and to try and come back from that from tanking is scary...........but I am seeing a group of young guys that look pretty good and am excited about adding a few more high picks to it.When I watch the vets I just see players taking away opportunities from the young guys.Take the chance to sell if there are buyers at the deadline.

[canuckpuckluck1]

As far as the tank goes I don't think Bo Horvat got the memo