Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Fakename70 said: Obviously I do disagree. And, have you stated a proven fact about Tanev? Or, merely an opinion, just as I have? Naming the 61 Dmen better (2 from each team not from Van plus one from Van) would help your position but it wouldn't change my opinion as I have already done that exercise and think he would easily slide into a top pairing on more than 1/2 the teams in the league including the most recent repeat SC champ Penguins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fakename70 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 10 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Naming the 61 Dmen better (2 from each team not from Van plus one from Van) would help your position but it wouldn't change my opinion as I have already done that exercise and think he would easily slide into a top pairing on more than 1/2 the teams in the league including the most recent repeat SC champ Penguins. Again, you're stating opinions, not proving facts. Not sure why you think that's qualification enough to shut down my argument. Maybe grab a dictionary? An opinion is not the same as a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Fakename70 said: Again, you're stating opinions, not proving facts. Not sure why you think that's qualification enough to shut down my argument. Maybe grab a dictionary? An opinion is not the same as a fact. Will make this simple for you, IT IS A FACT THAT THERE ARE NOT 61 DMEN IN NHL WHO ARE SUPERIOR TO CHRISTOPHER TANEV. It is also a fact that you are fun to debate with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fakename70 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 52 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Will make this simple for you, IT IS A FACT THAT THERE ARE NOT 61 DMEN IN NHL WHO ARE SUPERIOR TO CHRISTOPHER TANEV. It is also a fact that you are fun to debate with! I'll make it even more simple for you: typing in all CAPS doesn't make you any more right when attempting to state your case. If you truly believe Chris Tanev is among the best of the best the NHL has to offer at the defensive position, so be it. Once again, that is an opinion. One that I wholeheartedly disagree with. But, obviously, you and I both have completely different criteria and expectations regarding what we're looking for in a defenceman. Particularly, when it comes to the #1 pairing and/or top-4 on the depth chart. I'm content to leave it at that. Especially if you continue to insist that Tanev could've been a top pairing guy for the Penguins (or any other team with a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup) this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, Fakename70 said: I'll make it even more simple for you: typing in all CAPS doesn't make you any more right when attempting to state your case. If you truly believe Chris Tanev is among the best of the best the NHL has to offer at the defensive position, so be it. Once again, that is an opinion. One that I wholeheartedly disagree with. But, obviously, you and I both have completely different criteria and expectations regarding what we're looking for in a defenceman. Particularly, when it comes to the #1 pairing and/or top-4 on the depth chart. I'm content to leave it at that. Especially if you continue to insist that Tanev could've been a top pairing guy for the Penguins (or any other team with a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup) this season. Still waiting for your list of the 60 Dmen better at playing D......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Unless Chris Tanev can increase his offense he will remain a 2nd pairing d-man on a CUP quality roster. There is nothing wrong with that. Shut down d-zone guy with great PK suppression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Unless Chris Tanev can increase his offense he will remain a 2nd pairing d-man on a CUP quality roster. There is nothing wrong with that. Shut down d-zone guy with great PK suppression. I would agree. On Cup-quality teams, he's a 2nd pairing guy and on most bottom half teams he'd a 1st pairing guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, -AJ- said: I would agree. On Cup-quality teams, he's a 2nd pairing guy and on most bottom half teams he'd a 1st pairing guy. Agree, but would like to add he would be a top team's number one PK guy too. He we free up the offensive minded guys to play lighter minutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Unless Chris Tanev can increase his offense he will remain a 2nd pairing d-man on a CUP quality roster. There is nothing wrong with that. Shut down d-zone guy with great PK suppression. Or first pairing on a CUP quality roster with someone who is very offensively minded. A Methot type so to speak. Look at the top pairing D in the past number of cup finals and there are certainly a few Tanev types in the first pairing where the other partner was more about offence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Or first pairing on a CUP quality roster with someone who is very offensively minded. A Methot type so to speak. Look at the top pairing D in the past number of cup finals and there are certainly a few Tanev types in the first pairing where the other partner was more about offence. I am trying to be positive on Tanev but in serious CUP play I would worry how how well he can handle a heavy forecheck. It is one of the reasons I would be willing to see him moved. I cannot forget how Calgary physically targeted him 3 years ago. Saying that I still appreciate his d-zone play and with a different mix of players that might develop over the next few seasons he could benefit. I would still trade him on a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYjUstMaKeYoUwooZy Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 On 6/26/2017 at 0:58 PM, Fakename70 said: I'll make it even more simple for you: typing in all CAPS doesn't make you any more right when attempting to state your case. If you truly believe Chris Tanev is among the best of the best the NHL has to offer at the defensive position, so be it. Once again, that is an opinion. One that I wholeheartedly disagree with. But, obviously, you and I both have completely different criteria and expectations regarding what we're looking for in a defenceman. Particularly, when it comes to the #1 pairing and/or top-4 on the depth chart. I'm content to leave it at that. Especially if you continue to insist that Tanev could've been a top pairing guy for the Penguins (or any other team with a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley Cup) this season. It is not an opinion unless you count TSN and analysts commentary as "opinion". Multiple articles throughout last year including trade dead line have Tanev as top 2 defensive defenseman in the league. I am not a fancy stat kibd of person but the number backed up the claim in the articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogersTowell Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Some opinions are stated with rational arguments that provide credibility to their positions, while others think they are just as valid 'because they are both opinions'. One of these two camps needs to do some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 6 hours ago, TheYjUstMaKeYoUwooZy said: It is not an opinion unless you count TSN and analysts commentary as "opinion". Multiple articles throughout last year including trade dead line have Tanev as top 2 defensive defenseman in the league. I am not a fancy stat kibd of person but the number backed up the claim in the articles. Easier than fancy numbers - simply try and name 30 other Dmen in this league who would be better as a top pairing Dman to an offence first Dman. Even just going flat out to 60. His isn't one of the "ten best" Dmen in the NHL but no question he is in the top 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Easier than fancy numbers - simply try and name 30 other Dmen in this league who would be better as a top pairing Dman to an offence first Dman. Even just going flat out to 60. His isn't one of the "ten best" Dmen in the NHL but no question he is in the top 60. Isn't the point being made that he is one of the best defensive defensemen in the league? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydog Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 11 hours ago, Boudrias said: I am trying to be positive on Tanev but in serious CUP play I would worry how how well he can handle a heavy forecheck. It is one of the reasons I would be willing to see him moved. I cannot forget how Calgary physically targeted him 3 years ago. Saying that I still appreciate his d-zone play and with a different mix of players that might develop over the next few seasons he could benefit. I would still trade him on a good deal. I think Tanev will be much more effective on a team that actually has some toughness. You won see so many liberties taken on him when there's a price to pay. If van gets some players that can man up, tanevs injury time (minus those taken from blocking shots) will drop considerably. Much more valuable at TDL, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dannydog said: I think Tanev will be much more effective on a team that actually has some toughness. You won see so many liberties taken on him when there's a price to pay. If van gets some players that can man up, tanevs injury time (minus those taken from blocking shots) will drop considerably. Much more valuable at TDL, I think Tanev would stay healthy if he was on a team that could get the puck out of the d-zone quickly. I agree, TDL is the best for the young Canuck team and the added value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 hour ago, dpn1 said: Isn't the point being made that he is one of the best defensive defensemen in the league? I would say in upper half, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 6:44 AM, Boudrias said: I am trying to be positive on Tanev but in serious CUP play I would worry how how well he can handle a heavy forecheck. It is one of the reasons I would be willing to see him moved. I cannot forget how Calgary physically targeted him 3 years ago. Saying that I still appreciate his d-zone play and with a different mix of players that might develop over the next few seasons he could benefit. I would still trade him on a good deal. While the league is moving in the direction of speed, the Canucks two closest rival teams, Edmonton and Calgary, do utilize physicality. Hopefully Pedan takes the next step and, along with Gudbranson, will help to make life hell for forwards. As well, Benning would be wise to target larger, more endurable forwards in free agency, like Dwight King, to ensure that the Canucks have a decent forecheck that wears down the opposition in their end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fakename70 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 20 hours ago, RogersTowell said: Some opinions are stated with rational arguments that provide credibility to their positions, while others think they are just as valid 'because they are both opinions'. One of these two camps needs to do some work. But, is a biased passionate argument cloaked in analytics really rational if the subject matter ultimately just doesn't pass the eyeball test? I just don't think Tanev does. He's like the Canucks version of Derrick McKey. Look that name up if you have to or just "need to do some work". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Just for FakeName70 (and the other 69 fake names you possibly use). Maatta and Schultz were the top 2 D for Penguins in Game 6 SCF. If you would don't believe CT could have replaced either, no possibility either of us could agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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