[Report] Johnny Gaudreau seeking $8M annually on new deal with Flames

[Art Vandelay]

2 hours ago, mll said:

He's not eligible for an offer sheet.  He needs three years of experience and he only has two because he didn't play 10 games in 2013/14 when the first year of his ELC kicked in.  

 

It doesn't allow him a lot of leverage as he has no choice but to negotiate a deal with the Flames.

I believe it is because he doesn't qualify as a group 2 free agent (for the reason you stated). Many different factors make you not qualify for group 2.

 

For the 3 years experience that you mentioned(the amount of years depends on age), it is just accrued seasons, which(at Gaudreau's age) is 40 or more games on an active roster of the NHL, AHL and European Leagues(also world cups or any other related NHL events) while under a SPC. The 10 games rule is specifically for "Sliding" ELC's for 18/19 year olds. 

 

Tryamkin will be in the same situation next summer. Oddly, KHL is a mystery if it counts as an accrued season because the CBA says "European leagues" and who the hell knows if that means KHL. Same mystery as the expansion, most likely.

 

Then again, the CBA is an absolute mess with much too complicated RFA/UFA rules, and I'm completely wrong.

[mll]

25 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

I believe it is because he doesn't qualify as a group 2 free agent (for the reason you stated). Many different factors make you not qualify for group 2.

 

For the 3 years experience that you mentioned(the amount of years depends on age), it is just accrued seasons, which(at Gaudreau's age) is 40 or more games on an active roster of the NHL, AHL and European Leagues(also world cups or any other related NHL events) while under a SPC. The 10 games rule is specifically for "Sliding" ELC's for 18/19 year olds. 

 

Tryamkin will be in the same situation next summer. Oddly, KHL is a mystery if it counts as an accrued season because the CBA says "European leagues" and who the hell knows if that means KHL. Same mystery as the expansion, most likely.

 

Then again, the CBA is an absolute mess with much too complicated RFA/UFA rules, and I'm completely wrong.

There are so many different definitions in the CBA that it does get complicated.

 

Here's the article from the CBA that confirms his 2013/14 season doesn't count as a pro year and therefore he is not eligible for an offer sheet.  He signed at age 20.  He was an NCAA player and played only one game in 2013/14 burning one year of his ELC but it did not count as a pro-year because less than 10 games.  They allowed him to burn a year on his ELC because they didn't want him to go to UFA in August. 

 

10.2 Restricted Free Agents. 

(a) Group 2 Players and Free Agents. 

First SPC Signing             Eligible for Group 2 Free Agency

Age 18 - 21                       3 years professional experience

22 - 23                              2 years professional experience

24 or older                        1 year professional experience 

For the purposes of this Section 10.2(a), a Player aged 18 or 19 earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more NHL Games in a given NHL Season, and a Player aged 20 or older (or who turns 20 between September 16 and December 31 of the year in which he signs his first SPC) earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more Professional Games under an SPC in a given League Year. 

[Alflives]

23 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

I believe it is because he doesn't qualify as a group 2 free agent (for the reason you stated). Many different factors make you not qualify for group 2.

 

For the 3 years experience that you mentioned(the amount of years depends on age), it is just accrued seasons, which(at Gaudreau's age) is 40 or more games on an active roster of the NHL, AHL and European Leagues(also world cups or any other related NHL events) while under a SPC. The 10 games rule is specifically for "Sliding" ELC's for 18/19 year olds. 

 

Tryamkin will be in the same situation next summer. Oddly, KHL is a mystery if it counts as an accrued season because the CBA says "European leagues" and who the hell knows if that means KHL. Same mystery as the expansion, most likely.

 

Then again, the CBA is an absolute mess with much too complicated RFA/UFA rules, and I'm completely wrong.

Accepting the CBA is a given.  However, as great (and exciting) a player Goudreau is, I don't understand why the Flames don't sign the guy to 8x8.  He's worth that!  IMHAO, of course.  I think if he was on our team, we would all be wanting that.

[Art Vandelay]

7 minutes ago, mll said:

Here's the article from the CBA that confirms his 2013/14 season doesn't count as a pro year and therefore he is not eligible for an offer sheet.  He signed at age 20.  He was an NCAA player and played only one game in 2013/14 burning one year of his ELC but it did not count as a pro-year.  They allowed him to burn a year on his ELC because they didn't want him to go to UFA in August. 

 

10.2 Restricted Free Agents. 

(a) Group 2 Players and Free Agents. 

First SPC Signing             Eligible for Group 2 Free Agency

Age 18 - 21                       3 years professional experience

22 - 23                              2 years professional experience

24 or older                        1 year professional experience 

For the purposes of this Section 10.2(a), a Player aged 18 or 19 earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more NHL Games in a given NHL Season, and a Player aged 20 or older (or who turns 20 between September 16 and December 31 of the year in which he signs his first SPC) earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more Professional Games under an SPC in a given League Year. 

Like I said. I'm completely wrong.

 

Why do they have different definitions of a professional season for different types of free agents? or even rookie consideration... Complicated just to be complicated.

[Nuckles80]

48 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Accepting the CBA is a given.  However, as great (and exciting) a player Goudreau is, I don't understand why the Flames don't sign the guy to 8x8.  He's worth that!  IMHAO, of course.  I think if he was on our team, we would all be wanting that.

Read my point (previous) on this. They are buying 'prime years of his ufa status', so if Calgary is asking for 8 years a 6mil (which is my guess), his agent 'gets it'. With 8 years at 6 mil, sure he's paid fairly now, but when he turns 28 or so and is in his prime, and assuming he continues to improve (and the cap goes up), well as a ufa he'd be commanding 10 mil (by then with the likely moves in cap and salary comps and his skill - again assuming everything goes in the manner I described). So what happens is, Calgary gets him for 'fair value' for 4 years but then is arguably underpaying him 3-4 mil over the next 4 years = 16 mil bucks!

 

Those ufa years are HUGE leverage for players, we often here GM's talking about "buying up UFA" years, in fact Benning talked about if for Sbisa - you have to pay a premium for the reasons described above as a player is giving away his leverage to max his value. Now there is value in security and long term (less pressure, certainty, which all adds value to the player so its not asymetrical- as a result, the player understands they won't get as much $ as they would as a UFA. So its a negotiation for both sides to find a happy medium. Player gets 'solid money' to offset some of what he's giving up (leverage) but gets certainty (as what happens if he busts - Johnny won't but it matters in leverage - ie this is why paying that premium for Sbisa was unnecessary), and the team gets salary certainty and pays less than they would if they allowed him to go UFA and had to compete to retain him. Its has to be a win win however.

 

It really all depends on what the term Calgary is asking for. If they are asking 6 mil x 5 years, then Johnny and his agent are being stupid and greedy (my guess is there's no way they want to have to try and re-sign him at 28 with UFA status lol - so probably want 8). If they are offering that number 6 mil at 8 they are being unrealistic and Johnny is doing what's right.

 

Calgary won't want a bridge, they are trying to 'back end' a discount on this kid, and his agent is clearly smart enough to see it.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Nuckles80 said:

Read my point (previous) on what they are buying too. They are buying 'prime years of his ufa status', so if Calgary is asking for 8 years a 6mil (which is my guess), his agent 'gets it'. That, sure he's paid fairly now, but when he turns 28 or so and is in his prime, and assuming he continue to improve (and the cap goes up), well as a ufa he'd be commanding 10 mil (by then with the likely moves in cap and salary comps and his skill - again assuming everything goes in the manner I described). So what happens is, Calgary gets him for 'fair value' for 4 years but then is arguably underpaying him 3-4 mil over the next 4 years = 16 mil bucks!

 

Those ufa years are HUGE leverage for players, we often here GM's talking about "buying up UFA" years, in fact Benning talked about if for Sbisa - you have to pay a premium for the reasons described above as a players is giving away his leverage to max his value.

 

It really all depends on what the term Calgary is asking for. If they are asking 6 mil x 5 years, then Johnny and his agent are being stupid and greedy (my guess is there's no way they want to have to try and re-sign him at 28 with UFA status lol - so probably want 8). If they are offering that number 6 mil at 8 they are being unrealistic and Johnny is doing what's right.

 

Calgary won't want a bridge, they are trying to 'back end' a discount on this kid, and his agent is clearly smart enough to see it.

Maybe this issue has to do with Goudreau coming out of college a bit older than if he came from junior?  

[Nuckles80]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe this issue has to do with Goudreau coming out of college a bit older than if he came from junior?  

Less about age and more about production and term. Even if Johhny was 20 vs 23 and had produced as he has, those 8 years still take him into prime UFA earning years.

[stawns]

12 hours ago, Toews said:

I hope that we have reached a stage in CBA negotiations where neither side feels that there is enough to be gained from a lockout. The only issue that imo needs to be fixed in the next CBA is the bonus structure on contracts. 

and the ahl-chl agreement, imo.  each should be able to put 1-2 Jr aged players in the ahl.

[Warhippy]

12 hours ago, Toews said:

Players don't go easy on anyone no matter what they look like. Players like Gaudreau and Kane have the agility to make lining them up much harder. The newer crop of undersized prospects like Marner and Aho are following the same template. 

 

The owners seem think the system is working quite well according to Bill Daly.

 

“I don’t think on our side there is anything major that would need fixing. I think there’s a general satisfaction with how the system is working. From time to time, tweaks are needed. I think the sign of any healthy collective bargaining relationship is, particularly when you’re talking about tweaks, you try to deal with them mid-term and try to make adjustments. I think we’ve been successful with the Players’ Association, at least during the first four years of this agreement, in being able to do that – on both sides of the table. Where there are things that might not be working well for the players that aren’t kind of fundamental to the operation of the system we’ve been able to reach accommodations, and I think the same is true from their side of the table."

 

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-t...louds-horizon/

I shot a wedding for Paul McLeans son in July.  Present were numerous scouts and staff from Ottawa, Arizona and Anaheim.  As well as one Don Maloney and George McPhee.

 

I asked point blank about another lock out.  They all said very simply.

 

Owners are spending themselves in to another lockout, players at age 27 are finding themselves without jobs so that owners can replace them with cheap labour.

 

Owners will demand better cap protection for salaries, players will demand job security.  It's inevitable.

 

Whether it's a threat or a lockout losing the pre season or parts of a season.  it's coming.

[Me_]

Watch Gaudreau fade away in a couple of years. Too much money; not enough incentives; too small for the game. He will wear out faster than the regular height player.

[Rush17]

11 hours ago, Stelar said:

Because when all is said and done, they play to make a living. Not to win the cup.  Short career. 

 

11 hours ago, ajhockey said:

Yeah, and it's unfortunate that not enough of them know how to handle their money properly enough to accept lower salaries. 

Wish I could make the the 900k some of these players make out of the gate.  You don't need 8 million over 7 million unless your wanting to blow the cash or make your kids spoiled little brats.  Could you imagine how life would be if you knew you would one day inheriant 20+ million?  Yeah it sounds lovely but what type of person would you be. After a few generations often the message is lost and the kids become problems.  

Championships, Legacy, and self fulfillment should be the goal.   Not leeching every last cent out of a team that gave you the opportunity to become the player you are.  I don't blame it on the players though.  It's those gross and nasty agents that are trying to get a bigger payday by increasing their salary.

[Camel Toe Drag]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

Watch Gaudreau fade away in a couple of years. Too much money; not enough incentives; too small for the game. He will wear out faster than the regular height player.

I think it's miraculous how Gaudreau has been able to play the game at such an elite level and a style that puts him out of harms way. This obviously limits his use and utility on the ice seeing he's probably not going to be blocking shots or killing penalties but with the numbers he puts up I think that makes up for it (Much like Kane). We see in all sports undersized players come in that are criticised at first for their stature but then blow us away with their high game IQ. Its totally doable you just need to be more aware and play different than everyone else. Speaking as an undersized player I think the world of Johnny and what he's been able to prove in the sport and I think it goes to show if you have the passion for something you can achieve it no matter your body size.

 

Now do I think he's worth 8 Mill, hard to say. You can make the argument Monahan and Gaudreau are a poor mans Toews and Kane which I think is fair in term of what they bring to the table (minus 3 cups of course). But both Kane and Toews make the same, why not Sean and Johnny.

[Hairy Kneel]

I think Calgary should pay it!!!!!Hehehehe

[Stelar]

49 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

 

Wish I could make the the 900k some of these players make out of the gate.  You don't need 8 million over 7 million unless your wanting to blow the cash or make your kids spoiled little brats.  Could you imagine how life would be if you knew you would one day inheriant 20+ million?  Yeah it sounds lovely but what type of person would you be. After a few generations often the message is lost and the kids become problems.  

Championships, Legacy, and self fulfillment should be the goal.   Not leeching every last cent out of a team that gave you the opportunity to become the player you are.  I don't blame it on the players though.  It's those gross and nasty agents that are trying to get a bigger payday by increasing their salary.

Are you bitter much? Maybe when you become an NHL player you can decide how much you want to make. In the mean time, join the rest of us in the real world....

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

14 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

Could look something like this...

The reaction from all the fans is priceless.

[Hortankin]

15 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Sometimes I wish Pronger still played, 1 big hit and this kids done.

Tryamkin and Gudbranson my friend

[Monty]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

Watch Gaudreau fade away in a couple of years. Too much money; not enough incentives; too small for the game. He will wear out faster than the regular height player.

Like Martin St Louis, right?

[You Mad Bro?]

[Phat Fingers]

13 hours ago, Stelar said:

Because when all is said and done, they play to make a living. Not to win the cup.  Short career. 

One year of NHL average pay and I am set. By the way, he should still be able to work after the NHL. Salaries are outrageous. Still live the game, but hate what they are paid. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, You Mad Bro? said:

I thought that was Giroux grabbing some ass there.