867-five-309 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I really want to see Nilsson. He had a very good end to last season. Markstrom is horrible. Don't think he even lasts his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: I did. And yes we were. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Ronaldoescobar said: It helps when you have 5 cups and when anyone tells you how bad you are currently you can point to them and say: "well yeah but we have 5 cups what does Vancouver have??... Thought so.." So not really any comparison... Although I do agree that people need to have patience and there will be a great deal of short term pain coming. For sure. A win in 2011 sure wouldn't have hurt. Probably wouldn't change the ridiculous fan base reaction right now though. And regardless, doesn't really matter how 'best' of a team we were, right now we're rebuilding. Not sure why people are acting all surprised about being bad lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, 867-five-309 said: I really want to see Nilsson. He had a very good end to last season. Markstrom is horrible. Don't think he even lasts his contract. Markstrom isn't horrible. He was pretty good through the first two starts. And then he started trending downward. Which is kinda interesting, considering we've seen this before. Canucks Army looked at goalie performance based on rest and number of starts per rolling 10 day period. This was mostly about addressing Ryan Miller being overplayed. But it's nonetheless interesting to see how our goalies saw a dramatic drop in performance when they started more than two games in 10 days. With Miller it was more about age and managing fatigue. With Markstrom, I have to wonder whether it's a question of confidence and technique. Markstrom seems to be a guy who benefits from regular time with a goalie coach. He's shown a tendency over his career to lose confidence and get away from successful technique. I have to wonder whether or not he'd be better served getting more space between his starts, so he can review games, focus on positives and negatives from previous starts, get a little more support time from his coaches, and practice maintaining technique. On the other hand, the Canucks want him to be a starter and probably feel like they need to throw a bunch of games at him and allow him to sink or swim. Maybe he settles down, gets on a roll, and helps carry the team to some wins. It's a nice idea anyway. But most of what I've seen written about goalie performance suggests that the #1 goalie model (where the starter plays every game except back-to-backs) isn't really all that successful. Especially when there's not much separating the quality of your starter versus your backup. Certainly, there are several top level goalies in the league who can be workhorses and perform quite well player 60-65-70 or more starts per season. And even when their performance dips, these elite guys still likely offer a better chance at winning than their backups. But is that really the case in Vancouver? Seems to me, the best approach would be to try to split the starts between Markstrom and Nilsson. Allow for plenty of rest for both. Allow for plenty of practice time for maintaining technique. And allow for plenty of time for "mental" work where the coaches can talk things through and help these guys stay focused and confident. Obviously it's early. But it seems interesting that Marky has played 4 games in a week and basically his performance charts much the same as the data we saw from Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butters Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 10/14/2017 at 10:16 PM, Chandymen said: Remember when we had two of the best goalies in the league at the same time and they STILL weren't good enough for this fanbase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-five-309 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Markstrom isn't horrible. He was pretty good through the first two starts. And then he started trending downward. Which is kinda interesting, considering we've seen this before. Canucks Army looked at goalie performance based on rest and number of starts per rolling 10 day period. This was mostly about addressing Ryan Miller being overplayed. But it's nonetheless interesting to see how our goalies saw a dramatic drop in performance when they started more than two games in 10 days. With Miller it was more about age and managing fatigue. With Markstrom, I have to wonder whether it's a question of confidence and technique. Markstrom seems to be a guy who benefits from regular time with a goalie coach. He's shown a tendency over his career to lose confidence and get away from successful technique. I have to wonder whether or not he'd be better served getting more space between his starts, so he can review games, focus on positives and negatives from previous starts, get a little more support time from his coaches, and practice maintaining technique. On the other hand, the Canucks want him to be a starter and probably feel like they need to throw a bunch of games at him and allow him to sink or swim. Maybe he settles down, gets on a roll, and helps carry the team to some wins. It's a nice idea anyway. But most of what I've seen written about goalie performance suggests that the #1 goalie model (where the starter plays every game except back-to-backs) isn't really all that successful. Especially when there's not much separating the quality of your starter versus your backup. Certainly, there are several top level goalies in the league who can be workhorses and perform quite well player 60-65-70 or more starts per season. And even when their performance dips, these elite guys still likely offer a better chance at winning than their backups. But is that really the case in Vancouver? Seems to me, the best approach would be to try to split the starts between Markstrom and Nilsson. Allow for plenty of rest for both. Allow for plenty of practice time for maintaining technique. And allow for plenty of time for "mental" work where the coaches can talk things through and help these guys stay focused and confident. Obviously it's early. But it seems interesting that Marky has played 4 games in a week and basically his performance charts much the same as the data we saw from Miller. Well maybe I shouldn't say he sucks but what I have seen out of him this year has left me absolutely unimprssed to the point I don't think he qualifies as an NHL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 and a number one D man and a number one centre and ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Markstrom needs to find this extra gear ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickels Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Who cares that he’s 27 years, old, that means literally zero in terms of goalie development Talbot didn’t become a starter until he was 28 Dubnyk didn’t become a true #1 until he was 28, Smith didn’t become a starter until he was 29 Craig Anderson didn’t become a starter until he was 28 Rinne didn’t play over 10 NHL games until he was 27 Crawford didn’t play over 20 NHL games until he was 27 Markstrom has played more games in the NHL than Schneider did at the same age As I said "There's no sense arguing about it...time will tell" You feel he will develop into a successful/legitimate # 1 goalie.... and I do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 6 hours ago, butters said: and they STILL weren't good enough for this fanbase Fortunately teams don't manage players with fans opinions in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickels Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: Fortunately teams don't manage players with fans opinions in mind. Ya...its unfortunate that we're not considered in contract negotiations though... Go check the posts the day 3 yrs ago Sbisa and Dorsett were signed to their deals Every person in here said it was an over payment.....our GM did not think so. So...they don't always know better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 For the OP and all those complaining about Markstrom (and Nilsson), do you have a better solution? Do you remember the last time we didn't have an established #1 like Luongo or Miller in net? Do you remember the last time we didn't have an established #1 behind a team in the middle of a rebuild? It's four games into the season. Pause, take a deep breath, then let it out. Your happiness doesn't revolve around hockey, and the decisions a team makes that are well beyond your control. Find a silver lining, or move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 hours ago, elvis15 said: For the OP and all those complaining about Markstrom (and Nilsson), do you have a better solution? Do you remember the last time we didn't have an established #1 like Luongo or Miller in net? Do you remember the last time we didn't have an established #1 behind a team in the middle of a rebuild? It's four games into the season. Pause, take a deep breath, then let it out. Your happiness doesn't revolve around hockey, and the decisions a team makes that are well beyond your control. Find a silver lining, or move on. 3 years ago - "Why did they waste money on Miller? Should have gone with Lack and Markstrom" Last year - "Markstrom should be the starter, he's ready. Let Miller play backup" Now - "We need a number 1 goalie". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I will reserve harsh judgement on Markstrom. He's hardly been a starter for long. Gawd Blake and Serkeres were giving him the business all afternoon. Lu had streaks where he'd let in one soft goal a game, Give the guy some slack. I think realistically you have to give him 6 months to fully acclimatize to being a number one before you can even judge him. Unless he has a complete melt down but I don't see that happening. I still have faith in Marky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 This is quite funny to read.... For years people were crapping on Luongo. Then it was the Miller is way to expensive... Cmon now.... Let it roll. Markstrom needs to play, and so does Nilsson. We need to know, what we have got, and this is definitely the season to figure it out... Whether he will sink or swim remains to be seen, but without letting him run with it, we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysACanuckFan Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, spook007 said: This is quite funny to read.... For years people were crapping on Luongo. Then it was the Miller is way to expensive... Cmon now.... Let it roll. Markstrom needs to play, and so does Nilsson. We need to know, what we have got, and this is definitely the season to figure it out... Whether he will sink or swim remains to be seen, but without letting him run with it, we will never know. 1 hour ago, kilgore said: I will reserve harsh judgement on Markstrom. He's hardly been a starter for long. Gawd Blake and Serkeres were giving him the business all afternoon. Lu had streaks where he'd let in one soft goal a game, Give the guy some slack. I think realistically you have to give him 6 months to fully acclimatize to being a number one before you can even judge him. Unless he has a complete melt down but I don't see that happening. I still have faith in Marky. Its only 4 games into the season with Marky being a starter and I'm not about to lose faith or worry about him. There are other things to worry about at the moment like the PP and scoring. I believe the more he plays as a starter the more confident he becomes and eventually get into a groove. Thats what I'm hoping for anyway but only way to find out is to let him run with it. So I too will reserve harsh judgement at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I'll start criticising our goalie when the rest of the team actually start scoring goals and getting shots on target. I said it was a mistake letting Miller leave (maybe it could not be avoided) but it's far too early to get on Markstrom's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 15/10/2017 at 1:10 AM, King Heffy said: This was obvious going into the season. We aren't contenders and the goalies we do have are buying time for the real prospects, who are still in junior/AHL. There is zero sense in using assets to get a slight upgrade (teams with #1 goalies won't want to trade them) in order to pick a couple spots lower in the draft. Markstrom was considered the best prospect in his position for years in the world, a regular top three in the future watch, much more touted than Demko, off the charts compared to Diepetro. Hopefully one of them stick when they get their turn but it's not a foregone conclusion. Was stoked when Benning took a goalie, he should be taking more in the coming years too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70seven Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 We also need 3x top line players and 2x top pair dmen. Thats why the league laughs when someone mentions the Vancouver Canucks. The other bottom dwellers have players filling some of these roles. We have exactly zero... and despite a better prospect pool, it still ain’t looking very good. All in for Dahlin. Trade assets at deadline for picks/spects. Rinse and repeat for another 3 seasons. Oh yah, and stop cr@pping the bed with our top 10 picks. What’s in the past is in the past... but you can’t tell me that a good 80% of the fan base would have taken nylander/ehlers and tkachuk... if we had... we’d be a hell of a lot further into this rebuild than we are. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Listen, goaltending is the least of our worries now. It's the lack of goals and struggling PP!!! Fans are not paying $ just to see a good #1 goalie. We need Boeser and Virtanen to do well or we'll see attendance down to 12,000 soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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