(GDT) Nucks @ kings

[Ossi Vaananen]

Pouliot with his first as a Canuck.

 

Canucks win 1-0 in a snoozefest.

 

[DIBdaQUIB]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't think it's the losses that are bringing the fan base down, as much as it is the effort level, and the supplanting of younger players for older, less effective players.

 

When the Canucks lost games two weeks ago, they were in them essentially until the end. The games were exciting and a real glimpse of the future. The effort was there. The last two games have shown a considerable drop in effort and chemistry. Not sure what to correlate that to, outside of the return of Edler and Eriksson.

 

The team has had a day off, and a practice. Personally, I'd like to see the same effort level that the team had against the Penguins and Capitals. If the Canucks can put that out there, and stay in the game, it'll be worth watching.

 

 

Following the Pittsburgh game - last good game the team played- green was grilled over the 9 minutes of twins ice time.  He said he had spoken to them about it and next game, and each game since, they have been in the 14 minute range..  the team's style of play and overall tenacity and speed has diminished along with their increased ice time.  With their minutes and pp opportunity, their production is abysmal.  

They are becoming the anchor dragging down the  ship of change  jb speaks of.  

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Following the Pittsburgh game - last good game the team played- green was grilled over the 9 minutes of twins ice time.  He said he had spoken to them about it and next game, and each game since, they have been in the 14 minute range..  the team's style of play and overall tenacity and speed has diminished along with their increased ice time.  With their minutes and pp opportunity, their production is abysmal.  

They are becoming the anchor dragging down the  ship of change  jb speaks of.  

Totally. There is literally no reason to give two declining 37 players that much of an increase in ice time, when the minute dispersal before was perfect and allowed the team to not only match Pittsburgh and Washington, but beat them.

 

Outside of Eriksson being on a line with them, which in and of itself is a horrible idea, I can't see any other legitimate reason to give the Sedins more minutes. Maybe it's a case of fallin' for Dahlin? Otherwise, it looks like the Sedins may have "requested" more icetime.

[Hypocritical Cranium]

Good team vs. hard working team. With a few bounces we could win this game. Without a few bounces it could be very bad. 

 

Good bounces: 3 - 2 Canucks

No Bounces: 4 -1 Kings

[Bo fan]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't think it's the losses that are bringing the fan base down, as much as it is the effort level, and the supplanting of younger players for older, less effective players.

 

When the Canucks lost games two weeks ago, they were in them essentially until the end. The games were exciting and a real glimpse of the future. The effort was there. The last two games have shown a considerable drop in effort and chemistry. Not sure what to correlate that to, outside of the return of Edler and Eriksson.

 

The team has had a day off, and a practice. Personally, I'd like to see the same effort level that the team had against the Penguins and Capitals. If the Canucks can put that out there, and stay in the game, it'll be worth watching.

 

 

The return of LE and Edler - slower players , lack of interest in making the roster(pretty much guaranteed they play) - chemistry I believes comes from playing with the same players over time.  So until we see Travis sitting a vet so one of the youth can play - I don't see things changing very fast.. When Green 1st talked at the beginning of the season about earning ice time - and even went so far as to say it applied to the vets as well - I think people  truly  believed him. So - I know I would like to see that brought to fruition. And I totally agree with you - if they played with the same  effort that they did against the Pens and the Caps I would take the loss without complaint. The lack luster effort is a hard pill to swallow as a fan

[NHTyrany]

2 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Following the Pittsburgh game - last good game the team played- green was grilled over the 9 minutes of twins ice time.  He said he had spoken to them about it and next game, and each game since, they have been in the 14 minute range..  the team's style of play and overall tenacity and speed has diminished along with their increased ice time.  With their minutes and pp opportunity, their production is abysmal.  

They are becoming the anchor dragging down the  ship of change  jb speaks of.  

Interesting correlation you draw. The anchor will soon be lifted. At least dragging the ship this year gives us a better chance at an elite pick. I would prefer the team falter because of the vets vs. the current youth. I fully support lifting the anchor next year but think we will see additional vets coming in.

[Boudrias]

6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Totally. There is literally no reason to give two declining 37 players that much of an increase in ice time, when the minute dispersal before was perfect and allowed the team to not only match Pittsburgh and Washington, but beat them.

 

Outside of Eriksson being on a line with them, which in and of itself is a horrible idea, I can't see any other legitimate reason to give the Sedins more minutes. Maybe it's a case of fallin' for Dahlin? Otherwise, it looks like the Sedins may have "requested" more icetime.

Fans wanted the Twins this season and many even wanted them resigned. I certainly do not blame them for this slide. The slide was inevitable as the roster does not have enough offense. That lack of offense puts pressure on the defense as opposing teams can be more aggressive on the forecheck and offensively realizing any errors will not translate to goals against. 

 

Again IMO fans are ignoring the reality of where this team is. Acquisition, development,  evaluation, TDL deals and Draft 2018, those are the priorities this season. Benning can let the Twins play out their contracts and then retire. What was going to happen otherwise? 

[billabong]

4-2 kings

 

the tank continues 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Bo fan said:

The return of LE and Edler - slower players , lack of interest in making the roster(pretty much guaranteed they play) - chemistry I believes comes from playing with the same players over time.  So until we see Travis sitting a vet so one of the youth can play - I don't see things changing very fast.. When Green 1st talked at the beginning of the season about earning ice time - and even went so far as to say it applied to the vets as well - I think people  truly  believed him. So - I know I would like to see that brought to fruition. And I totally agree with you - if they played with the same  effort that they did against the Pens and the Caps I would take the loss without complaint. The lack luster effort is a hard pill to swallow as a fan

Well said. I think, based on the drop in ticket sales that plenty of Canucks fans are tired of watching these vets do little and accomplish nothing. As you say, until Green puts the "competition for roster spots" mantra into actual use by sitting an underachieving veteran for a hungry and willing younger player, this tired dance of trying to get blood from a stone will continue.

 

Personally, I'm really happy with the amount of youth that's now on the team. I can only hope that the next step is to free up at least four roster spots from veterans for next season, to complete the rebuild.

[Green Building]

Todd Bertuzzi with some interesting things to say on the radio this morning. Worth a listen as he talks Vancouver media, NHL media, Canucks PP, and a few other things.

 

 http://www.sportsnet.ca/650/sportsnets-starting-lineup/bertuzzi-talks-negative-media-latest-hall-famers-canucks-weak-power-play/ 

[DIBdaQUIB]

4 minutes ago, NHTyrany said:

Interesting correlation you draw. The anchor will soon be lifted. At least dragging the ship this year gives us a better chance at an elite pick. I would prefer the team falter because of the vets vs. the current youth. I fully support lifting the anchor next year but think we will see additional vets coming in.

I totally understand the argument you make but I struggle to accept just writing off another year to appease the egos or show respect for players who are no longer earning their spot.  This team has needed a major shift in attitude for years and earning ice time and playing players who personify the new style is crucial to that.  Continuing to play vets because of past service, when they are not producing or playing the new style is the opposite of having vets mentor youth in playing the right way. 

Yes, we need vets with the kids but those vets need to be deployed in a way that reflects their state of play and abilities.  To continue to put the twins, Edler and Loui in key roles they are failing at, is not mentoring nor is it advancing the new culture JB says he is creating.

[J-23]

Granlund - Sutter/Henrik - Virtanen line please. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Sedin Sedin Eriksson?

Insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Somebody please whisper Green in the ear that Granlund did well with the Twins.

actually it was basically the same level of production with either Loui or Granny (http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_profiler.php?sent=go&players=1515&games=2016-2017:R). 

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Fans wanted the Twins this season and many even wanted them resigned.

Well it is the final year of their contracts, so they were due to come back regardless. Re-signing them would be a mistake. Letting them resign? Not so much.

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I certainly do not blame them for this slide. The slide was inevitable as the roster does not have enough offense.

I don't blame the Sedins either. Ole Father Time has come knocking and is seeking payment for all those years of mileage. That's the cause of the slide, not the lack of offense from the roster.

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

That lack of offense puts pressure on the defense as opposing teams can be more aggressive on the forecheck and offensively realizing any errors will not translate to goals against. 

The defense has played remarkably well in the face of injuries and overwhelming odds earlier on in this young season. The loss of Tanev seems to have been a much harder blow to the team than Edler ever was.

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Again IMO fans are ignoring the reality of where this team is. Acquisition, development,  evaluation, TDL deals and Draft 2018, those are the priorities this season. Benning can let the Twins play out their contracts and then retire. What was going to happen otherwise? 

There is no argument regarding the Sedins being here. They signed a contract with Gillis, which the team owes them the entirety of until the end of this season.

 

It's the increase in icetime that's a problem. They haven't played well enough to increase their icetime. At all. I truly hope that Benning sees the writing on the wall, and moves forward without the Sedins. It's time. The upcoming draft and the need to bring up more players to populate the roster for the future is far more important than maintaining some sentimental attachment.

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, combover said:

Hopefully my effort isn’t more than the Nucks tonight..lol.

we are due for some scoring hopefully the kings look past us and open up a bit.

 

 

thanks for starting this thread

and i hope you are right that scoring will break out

 

with the sedins clearly no longer the 1st line

i am concerned we are seeing the continuation of a trend that was apparent in the last part of last season

bo is being targeted by other teams and is basically being shut down

his whole line is being shut down

the offense has dried up entirely on this team now

we have no primary or secondary scoring now, the d are no longer as involved either now

 

high shot volume is not the answer if the quality of those shots is meh

green needs to adjust the canucks approach

and it is a tad disappointing that the team appears to be steering towards a more defensive/conservative style of play which is beginning to contain shades of the system last season

 

i want to be wrong, hope i'm wrong, but i fear the blush is off the rose in terms of the new approach initiated by green

teams have figured out how to deal with this team rather quickly

and there is no meaningful response

 

so i will be watching for any adjustments that might be entering the team strategy

if the bo line is relatively ineffective tonight it needs adjustment to the line

i am rather clueless why ericksson has spent almost no time playing with bo

 

at the start of last season i expressed an interest in burrows playing with bo

that finally happened and worked pretty well for the first half of the season

a solid 2 way veteran scoring winger is what is needed on that line

if dorsett had more offensive upside i'd advocate him being on that line

but i think he should remain playing with sutter

green is a bit stuck with his line combos presently .. only adjusting the sedin line

and sometimes double shifting bo

 

anyway go canucks go

prove my concerns invalid and unfounded

and that the team was just in a funk that it is able to climb out of

i want my eyes to be wrong about my observations

 

[Rush17]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Virtanen sits again, but Gagner, Vanek, and the Twins play.  If not for Bo and Brock, I wouldn’t even watch.  

Virtanen is sitting for days.  gg.

 

maybe green wants him to watch his teammates get beaten and bruised by LA to show him why he is needed. 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Well said. I think, based on the drop in ticket sales that plenty of Canucks fans are tired of watching these vets do little and accomplish nothing. As you say, until Green puts the "competition for roster spots" mantra into actual use by sitting an underachieving veteran for a hungry and willing younger player, this tired dance of trying to get blood from a stone will continue.

 

Personally, I'm really happy with the amount of youth that's now on the team. I can only hope that the next step is to free up at least four roster spots from veterans for next season, to complete the rebuild.

I guess he thinks its too early to sit Loui, this will be game 6 of the season so I think a reasonable amount of time for that hasn't passed yet, but soon. For me (probably the biggest Loui supporter on CDC, I got the lumps to prove it ) I think if Loui is goalless in 10 games then yes, as crappy as that is for trying to move him he needs to sit out a game or two. But I can understand why management wont want to see that, it guarantees no return for him in any kind of trade. I'd rather see him stay in and you can at least sell his defensive play as part of a potential deal but at some point I guess you have to do something drastic and bench him, maybe at the end of the eastern road trip coming up if its still a big "0" on the goal sheet. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

2-1 Canucks.

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

actually it was basically the same level of production with either Loui or Granny (http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_profiler.php?sent=go&players=1515&games=2016-2017:R). 

Forgive me for questioning this, but maybe I don't read this correctly:

But nearly twice as much time with Loui compared to Marcus, just yielded 3 % more (1 goal) ? 

 

Did I miss something?

 

Even Strength Line Combinations

Freq	Line Combination
34.8%	ERIKSSON,LOUI - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK
19.3%	GRANLUND,MARKUS - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK
18.9%	SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK - SUTTER,BRANDON
15.7%	HANSEN,JANNIK - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK
11.2%	CHAPUT,MICHAEL - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK

Even Strength Line Production (30)

Pts	%Total	Line Combination
7	23.3%	ERIKSSON,LOUI - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK
6	20%	GRANLUND,MARKUS - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK
4	13.3%	SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK - SUTTER,BRANDON
3	10%	HANSEN,JANNIK - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK
2	6.7%	GOLDOBIN,NIKOLAY - SEDIN,DANIEL - SEDIN,HENRIK

[coastal.view]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess he thinks its too early to sit Loui, this will be game 6 of the season so I think a reasonable amount of time for that hasn't passed yet, but soon. For me (probably the biggest Loui supporter on CDC, I got the lumps to prove it ) I think if Loui is goalless in 10 games then yes, as crappy as that is for trying to move him he needs to sit out a game or two. But I can understand why management wont want to see that, it guarantees no return for him in any kind of trade. I'd rather see him stay in and you can at least sell his defensive play as part of a potential deal but at some point I guess you have to do something drastic and bench him, maybe at the end of the eastern road trip coming up if its still a big "0" on the goal sheet. 

hey i have appreciated your ongoing support of ericksson

most of what you have said in the past has been valid

the posters are often very reactionary on here and look to scapegoat players

i do think loui had a decent game last game . .well certainly compared to many of his team mates

he is still a quality player (if you ignore his contract and bring no expectations to his production based on his pay)