Louie Eriksson and Jake Virtanen and Jim Benning

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Right there I can agree on, as I have said many times if Loui was making $3M this wouldn't even be a discussion. Obviously at the time and his production from the past it said he was a little more than that, but he was also starting to decline the problem was committing to him that long and banking on that he will still produce like he had in the past at that value was a big risk that failed, and Benning was also hoping for the chemistry with the Sedins with him. 

 

With all that said, Eriksson and his agent signed that contract because they felt he was worth that much, well maybe play like it and if you can't which clearly is the case better get used to being held accountable for your poor play if you think you're worth that much, rather sign a defenseman at that value instead of Loui if all he's going to be good is for defense at that value.

LE's play isn't bad, it just isn't what he was brought in to do.  Now that we know he can be a solid defensive player and a guy who can fill spots when needed, no one shoyuld have a problem with him.

[Tystick]

Great post, perspective is everything.

I honestly would have not have taken any of those other free agents, I preferred Eriksson. 

It's too bad he dropped off in production so soon but the league is getting so fast, I personally believe players will start phasing out of the league closer to 30.

The young talent is just getting too fast and exciting.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Just now, stawns said:

LE's play isn't bad, it just isn't what he was brought in to do.  Now that we know he can be a solid defensive player and a guy who can fill spots when needed, no one shoyuld have a problem with him.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

do you think it is?  I don't.......it might not be the role he was brought in to play, but he is a solid defensive player and a good player to have in the bottom 6.

[erkayloomeh]

2 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

You honestly think that a team with a lot of cap space in a hockey market Canadian city like Vancouver would have been like hey Jim you had 7 forward options in free agency and you just said pass.  OK thats fine Jim...keep on keeping on....Not a chance.  He would have been absolutely roasted.

 

This isn't a video game.  This is a professional sport franchise with humans playing for the team.  You cant just tell the entire team hey guys we are going to be 20 mil under the cap for the next 5 years because we are going to accumulate draft picks and "give young guys a look see."  I am sure the squad would be like hey that sounds great.  The average NHL career is something like 5 years.  I will dedicate the next 5 years of my life being bottom 5 in the standings and just to make sure we TANK for the top picks.

 

Are you for real?  

 

I would never ever want a player that would be ok with that kind of situation.  That player is not a winner and will never be one.  You can't build a winner by establishing a culture of loosing.  You just wake up in 2022 on a beautiful July 1st and say hey time to flip the switch.  We are going to be a winner now.  Everyone lets play to win now!

Are you trying to say he signs players just for the sake of appearances......using up cap space. That's what it sounds like. 

And even with LE where did we end up ?  Gotta sign those high price ufas so we don't end up bottom 5 right.  Uh.  We did 

All I'm saying is that I don't like signing high priced ufas when they are aging and to linger terms.   Even if we got a couple good years out of Loui surely one could see that the balance of that contract would not be good.  

Edited April 15, 2019 by erkayloomeh

[CanadianRugby]

4 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

I think the majority of Jim Benning hate or dim Jim thoughts are primarily around these two moves. 

That's not true.  Majority of hate for Benning was his insistence of making another Cup run with the Sedins.  Blowing assets to do it and letting players wither and lose value instead of trading them for assets that would be helping the team right now.  

 

Eriksson was a bad move but everyone makes bad moves once in a while, it's the overall plan that got Benning the hate with fans and throughout the hockey world.  

 

You can argue that YOU liked the plan, or that you didn't.  But it's not correct that it was a bad signing and a bad draft pick that got Benning all his hate. 

4 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

Ollie Joulevi over Tkachuk is by now definitely a miss, but that's like saying why didn't the team draft Barazal or Pastarnak or whatever.  The smaller dealers are absurdities.  OMG he added an extra 6th round pick to a trade that has a 3% chance of being a 3rd line hockey player for 400 games.  

 

So to Louie, in order to be angry about this deal you have be in favor of choosing an alternative.  There were a lot of solid forwards available during free agency that year.  Ladd, Okoposo, Nielsen, Backes and Lucic.  I am probably forgetting someone else.  

As far as Virtanen & OJ picks.  It's not the same as Barazal or Paternak.  People here (if you go back to the draft forums you can see this) wanted specific players in Tkachuk & Ehlers over Virtanen & OJ.  So it's not hindsight.  

 

The alternate of Louie would be to sign players like we did last offseason.  Role players, good locker room guys.  Not throw a boatload of money for SIX years at an aging player in a hopeless attempt at another Cup run with a past their prime core. 

 

As far as making fun of Nylander and calling him soft, saying Virtanen is better suited for the playoffs.  You could say the same stupid thing about Pettersson, or Hughes.  

Nylander scores 0.66 PPG in the playoffs and has a 60.8 FO% better numbers than Kesler.  

[Viper007]

6 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

That's not true.  Majority of hate for Benning was his insistence of making another Cup run with the Sedins.  Blowing assets to do it and letting players wither and lose value instead of trading them for assets that would be helping the team right now.  

 

Eriksson was a bad move but everyone makes bad moves once in a while, it's the overall plan that got Benning the hate with fans and throughout the hockey world.  

 

You can argue that YOU liked the plan, or that you didn't.  But it's not correct that it was a bad signing and a bad draft pick that got Benning all his hate. 

As far as Virtanen & OJ picks.  It's not the same as Barazal or Paternak.  People here (if you go back to the draft forums you can see this) wanted specific players in Tkachuk & Ehlers over Virtanen & OJ.  So it's not hindsight.  

 

The alternate of Louie would be to sign players like we did last offseason.  Role players, good locker room guys.  Not throw a boatload of money for SIX years at an aging player in a hopeless attempt at another Cup run with a past their prime core. 

 

As far as making fun of Nylander and calling him soft, saying Virtanen is better suited for the playoffs.  You could say the same stupid thing about Pettersson, or Hughes.  

Nylander scores 0.66 PPG in the playoffs and has a 60.8 FO% better numbers than Kesler.  

To me, it looks like most fans are fine with Benning.  And who cares bout he rest of the hockey world, although I do believe most hockey people believe he's doing a decent job (ie Burke).

[CanadianRugby]

4 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

To me, it looks like most fans are fine with Benning.  And who cares bout he rest of the hockey world, although I do believe most hockey people believe he's doing a decent job (ie Burke).

Yup, but we're talking about why people dislike him.  Not, how many people dislike him. 

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, CanadianRugby said:

That's not true.  Majority of hate for Benning was his insistence of making another Cup run with the Sedins.  Blowing assets to do it and letting players wither and lose value instead of trading them for assets that would be helping the team right now.  

 

Eriksson was a bad move but everyone makes bad moves once in a while, it's the overall plan that got Benning the hate with fans and throughout the hockey world.  

 

You can argue that YOU liked the plan, or that you didn't.  But it's not correct that it was a bad signing and a bad draft pick that got Benning all his hate. 

As far as Virtanen & OJ picks.  It's not the same as Barazal or Paternak.  People here (if you go back to the draft forums you can see this) wanted specific players in Tkachuk & Ehlers over Virtanen & OJ.  So it's not hindsight.  

 

The alternate of Louie would be to sign players like we did last offseason.  Role players, good locker room guys.  Not throw a boatload of money for SIX years at an aging player in a hopeless attempt at another Cup run with a past their prime core. 

 

As far as making fun of Nylander and calling him soft, saying Virtanen is better suited for the playoffs.  You could say the same stupid thing about Pettersson, or Hughes.  

Nylander scores 0.66 PPG in the playoffs and has a 60.8 FO% better numbers than Kesler.  

Petterson is a very fiesty guy.  He maybe small but I have seen him hit with purpose and get involved physically more often than he should.  Nylander is on a stacked offensive team getting powerplay time.  He doesn't score goals in the playoffs and doesn't do much else.  He is also on a huge contract limiting his team from bringing on the type of players that could actually improve the roster.

 

Ehlers and Nylander at current contracts and playoff prowess are a hard pass for me over Virtanen straight up.

 

OJ and Tkachuk like I said is a miss.  But it isn't that easy of a call, there are plenty of people who wanted other players.  Tkachuk wasn't consensus anything.

 

How do you know what Jim Bennings plan actually was?  How do you know what the owners influence, if any, was?

 

Blowing it up is such an easy thing to say.  You assume you can get a bag full of riches for older players that you yourself don't want.  You can't say tanking is the only way to build a contender and then say you can improve a team by trading Chris Higgins for a 3rd pick that has a 10% chance of being a 3rd line hockey player.

 

This is all because Lou got all of those picks for the Leafs a coupe of trade deadlines in a row.  I genuinely would like to know which of those 2-7th round picks are on the roster now.  None of them matter.  

Morgan Reilly, Matthews, Nylander, Marner all 1st round picks.  You cant turn Chris HIggins, Kevin Bieksa and Alexandre Burrows at their ages into 1st round picks.  This isn't EA sports.  Raymond, Ballard and a 2nd does not get you a 1st round pick.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, erkayloomeh said:

Are you trying to say he signs players just for the sake of appearances......using up cap space. That's what it sounds like. 

And even with LE where did we end up ?  Gotta sign those high price ufas so we don't end up bottom 5 right.  Uh.  We did 

All I'm saying is that I don't like signing high priced ufas when they are aging and to linger terms.   Even if we got a couple good years out of Loui surely one could see that the balance of that contract would not be good.  

No he made a choice of one out of 6 players.  He got it wrong.  But not really as all of the other choices were bad in hindsight.  He made an attempt to improve the team.  That is his job.  Saying that he shouldn't have used the cap space which is meaningless at that time with 6 different options available is non-starter strategy.  How is it improving your time by not trying?  Lets just go out and sign nothing but college free agents.  Tank hard and then in 5 years you will have 5 first overall picks.  Easy done....

 

You are not wrong by saying that high priced UFAs rarely pay off, but what you are missing is that the alternative was to do nothing.  How would that have been better?  It wouldn't have been at all.  At absolute best its a meaningless difference.  Then why be mad either way?  If the team is the same with or without Louie these last 3 years why does it matter?  Why is it a black mark on Jim's performance if the other options didnt work out either and doing nothing means exactly that nothing.

 

I mean it sucks that I don't get paid 6 million per year to play a game I love, but that's life.  Some people are luckier than others...it doesn't have to be fair.

[Nuxfanabroad]

All this bickering & p*ssing in the wind. Might also be infiltrated by 'HFHater' types

 

The PROBLEM mostly boils down to Van's drafting, from about 2006-2012..go through such a drafting black hole, & you're destined to pay for it, sooner or later. JB & Brackett's fine work has almost put that debacle in the rear view. Patience.

 

Btw, good one OP!

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

do you think it is?  I don't.......it might not be the role he was brought in to play, but he is a solid defensive player and a good player to have in the bottom 6.

If you're basing your opinion on him not being bad just because of his defense then yes I don't. The rest of his game is trash, no way it makes up for the rest imo to say he's good or not bad.

[higgyfan]

6 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

I think Dim Jim is the worse GM we had in ages but it’s not because of Eriksson or JV. Far from it. I actually have very little issue with Eriksson besides the same reason I had issue with Miller. I don’t think we need these guys in a rebuilding team that hasn’t completely tore down yet. They do nothing except ruin how high our pick is. Thankfully Eriksson hasn’t actually won us games or given us unnecessary loser points like Miller did. How much Miller helped demko or markstrom is either non-existent or completely unnoticeable so that 6 million was a waste just like Eriksson is.

 

That said, Its just cap space though, so it’s not the end of the world. 

 

How he handles the rest of our assets is absolutely horrible though but it shouldn’t come as any surprise considering who his mentor/teacher was, Peter Chirelli.

 

We seriously need to move him before what happened in Edmonton happens. 

Yeah but Miller brought some toughness to the team and protected the youth.

[Chris12345]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

do you think it is?  I don't.......it might not be the role he was brought in to play, but he is a solid defensive player and a good player to have in the bottom 6.

I agree he is a good bottom six forward but so is the rest of the team.

 

They have 3 top six forwards. That's not Loui's fault but he takes the brunt of fans frustration for the lack of top end talent.

 

 

[ButterBean]

The stats don’t tell the whole story when you compare Loui to those guys who brought more intagibles. He was brought here to bring offense and failed. His biggest issue is effort and it’s very rare when you actually see him skate with speed, just like Goldy. Idc if he’s good defensively, there are a ton of guys in the NHL who can do that for a fraction of the price. You are not winning in the playoffs with guys like that. And just because other teams signed FA’s to similar deals does not excuse signing a player of his age to that term. It’s not entirely JB’s fault but playoff calibre teams hit on those signings. 

[kingofsurrey]

8 hours ago, ohmy said:

Yeah your right we suck!  nor do we have a top 5 farm system at the moment 

Nearly fell off my chair laughing at that point.......

[hammertime]

I really wanted Okposo as OP said that was never an option. 

 

I also wanted Ladd for more money shorter term. Felt he would be good for Bo and future kids comming through the ranks.

[ButterBean]

5 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

Petterson is a very fiesty guy.  He maybe small but I have seen him hit with purpose and get involved physically more often than he should.  Nylander is on a stacked offensive team getting powerplay time.  He doesn't score goals in the playoffs and doesn't do much else.  He is also on a huge contract limiting his team from bringing on the type of players that could actually improve the roster.

 

Ehlers and Nylander at current contracts and playoff prowess are a hard pass for me over Virtanen straight up.

 

OJ and Tkachuk like I said is a miss.  But it isn't that easy of a call, there are plenty of people who wanted other players.  Tkachuk wasn't consensus anything.

 

How do you know what Jim Bennings plan actually was?  How do you know what the owners influence, if any, was?

 

Blowing it up is such an easy thing to say.  You assume you can get a bag full of riches for older players that you yourself don't want.  You can't say tanking is the only way to build a contender and then say you can improve a team by trading Chris Higgins for a 3rd pick that has a 10% chance of being a 3rd line hockey player.

 

This is all because Lou got all of those picks for the Leafs a coupe of trade deadlines in a row.  I genuinely would like to know which of those 2-7th round picks are on the roster now.  None of them matter.  

Morgan Reilly, Matthews, Nylander, Marner all 1st round picks.  You cant turn Chris HIggins, Kevin Bieksa and Alexandre Burrows at their ages into 1st round picks.  This isn't EA sports.  Raymond, Ballard and a 2nd does not get you a 1st round pick.

Have to disagree about Pettersson. He may go to the dirty areas and play fearless but he by no means hits with purpose or plays fiesty.

[Gator]

15 hours ago, apollo said:

It was a no brainer to go after Loui that year. 

 

Everyone and their dog thought he'd light it up with the twins. 

 

Can't blame Jim for the signing... You can argue he's been much better than Lucic and Backes this year. 

 

Hopefully no mistakes are made this free agency year. 

 

This. I was over the moon excited thinking he may be that piece the Sedins needed to have 1 more shot. Any GM would have made that move with the aging Sedins

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Anyone can build the farm sucking for that many years. In reality, we should be much much better off right now if he was even half way competent.

Man you can’t see the forest for the trees.  Yes he drafted high because we sucked, and have to suck to get a new core...and the lottery screwed him every step of the way.  But based on ADP, he still out drafted 22 GMS in the league if all things were equal.  So that remark is naive and ignorant.  Not anyone can build, there are a lot of examples out there of teams that have and have not and maybe he’d be one of them if he batted .500 with his firsts and found nobody outside of the first round.    Quin was loved and rightly so, go back and see how well he did with his first picks, some big misses, even back to back.  Bure was a coupe no doubt, Linden an obvious pick at the time...Nedved was ok too.   Would you throw rotten tomatoes at him too?