Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: thats not logical at all. If those 'terrible signings' were the key to get us getting high draft picks why would the team record be better? The only trade that is hurting the team right now is Loui, and lets see if Jim fixes that next week. No, the Terrible signings were not the key because we could have been just as bad by playing expired vets and the farm like we should have and kept all of our draft picks. Trading away picks for no reason set us back for sure. I just hope the Miller trade doesn’t end up setting us back even more, yet again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 6 hours ago, -AJ- said: I think the idea that he's a bad trader is heavily overstated. I'd say that he's probably an average trader. I think his greatest weakness is free agent signings, so I will agree on that point. His drafting is excellent, his trades are average, and his free agent signings are below average. Other than Eriksson how are his free agent signings below average? Gagner was a bottom 6 guy. Schaller, a bottom 6 guy, and really those are the only notable bad signings and it wasn't like 2 of those 3 crippled the team going forward. Even the Eriksson signing won't cripple this team going forward. Vrbata was great in 1 of his 2 seasons. Miller was great in all 3 of his seasons. Bartkowski is whatever, one year deal. MDZ got us Schenn and a 6th. All things considered was a whatever signing. Beagle and Roussel were great signings imo. Roussel fills a role nobody else really does. And Beagle is Sutter lite. If anything his signings are average, since he's only had three real notable ones. Vrbata was a short term deal and one of those two years was great. Miller played great for us and provided leadership. Eriksson sucked. Beagle and Roussel are great pick ups. Everyone else is forgettable and/or are nothing signings. I think his "bad" free agent signings are overstated. If the worst case scenario from his free agent signings is bottom 6 reclamation projects not panning out and one bad big-ish contract I'd say he's doing pretty good. His signings are so hard to judge cause they were mostly all bottom six/3rd pair d-men signings. His big moves he is 2 for 3 imo. Hard to give him a negative rating in free agents when none of the big names have ever really considered us as a real destination cause of our rebuilding status. Short term deals on bottom 6 players not panning out is not enough for me to ding him in the free agent department. The next couple off seasons though, this will be a real test for his ability to bring in free agents. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: No, the Terrible signings were not the key because we could have been just as bad by playing expired vets and the farm like we should have and kept all of our draft picks. Trading away picks for no reason set us back for sure. I just hope the Miller trade doesn’t end up setting us back even more, yet again. OK but what part of "mandate" is being lost on you? Its clear that ownership and Linden didn't want a tear down. Jim was supposed to do it anyway? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: The draft system is not truly fair, as you suggest. It does not give the best odds to the poorest teams. As a result if this unfairness, JB has been drafting (mostly) outside the top five. He’s done a brilliant job, considering that fact. Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin are arguably three of the best players in their draft classes. JB wasn’t picking as high as other teams, and he’s done better. That, to me, is doing an excellent job. Top 5 for 5 years should be enough to keep that system working. At least that’s probably what the GM’s thought at the GM meetings when they voted for it. I agree that it really should be revisited if it alters the original intention of the system. But that’s another story. But 5 years of super high drafting really should be enough to improve our fortunes considerably. What I suspect hurt us more than losing the lotteries were trading away all our picks for unnecessary pieces. I know you believe Dorsett was necessary but I don’t see how he was in anyway shape or form. He didn’t bring us closer to a cup, only thing he probably did was hurt our draft ranking to be honest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodCanadianKideh Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Brian Burke traded 2 first-round picks and a second round pick for a winger...while the team was awful. People recently lost their minds that Benning traded a lottery protected first round pick for a winger, while the team is looking like it is making progress. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Let’s see how Benning does at trades when we have some tradable assets and a contending team. Burke traded Toronto’s 2 first-round picks to Boston which were used to select Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. An all-star centre and a top pairing, right-shot defender. This is a great article that does an in-depth look at the trade: https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/revisiting-the-original-phil-kessel-trade-where-nobody-is-a-winner-today/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: OK but what part of "mandate" is being lost on you? Its clear that ownership and Linden didn't want a tear down. Jim was supposed to do it anyway? Yes. Nonis tenure was so short because that’s exactly what he did. He said he wasn’t going to hurt the team to keep his job or something to that effect. Let me try and find the quote. Yes he paid for it in his career but that is the type of GM you want. That would fight the owners a bit. Edited June 30, 2019 by Tomatoes11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Just now, Tomatoes11 said: Yes. Nonis tenure was so short because that’s exactly what he did. He said he wasn’t going to hurt the team to keep his job or something to that effect. Let me try and find the quote. Yes he he paid for it in his career but that is the type of GM you want. That would fight the owners a bit. honestly I think you're being very unreasonable and unrealistic. Re-casting Nonis that way is a bit much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoodCanadianKideh said: Brian Burke traded 2 first-round picks and a second round pick for a winger...while the team was awful. People recently lost their minds that Benning traded a lottery protected first round pick for a winger, while the team is looking like it is making progress. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Let’s see how Benning does at trades when we have some tradable assets and a contending team. Burke traded Toronto’s 2 first-round picks to Boston which were used to select Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. An all-star centre and a top pairing, right-shot defender. This is a great article that does an in-depth look at the trade: https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/revisiting-the-original-phil-kessel-trade-where-nobody-is-a-winner-today/ Um. Kessel was legit. He was right because I think the pens lose maybe 1 or 2 of their dynasty cups without all the huge goals from Kessel. Miller us nowhere near as top end as Kessel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck-lifer Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I'm on the JB blind fan club by any means, but on key trades he has been very focused on getting his guy and than has simply been unlucky on the injury front. Sutter and Dorsett are 2 good examples. Sutter, when healthy was ( and still may be) an excellent shutdown 3rd line center to stabilize our younger core. He can go up against any top center and effectively shut them down most of time. He was pretty healthy before coming to the Canucks but that changed awfully quickly and you know the rest. Dorsett same thing, slightly over paid but extremely valuable bottom 6 guy that we sorely needed. This combined with having no assets to trade, and players not including the Canucks on their trade list due to no fault of JB is another problem he has had to face. Now that we have Petey, Brock and Hughes we're a more desirable teams for players to join, but this is really just the last year if that. Key UFA signings Vrbata- B Miller- B Gagner- F MDZ- F Eriksson- F Roussel- B Beagle- C Vanek- B This is the big concern IMO. He's pushing hard to ice a playoff team and may sign players that end up being bad contracts when we need the cap the most. Although he has made some decent signings, we're still not a playoff team, so although we have the young horses, we may still need to over pay for a guy like Myers which will only slow our true build. Stralman, or a second tier RD, and possibly a Tanev upgrade would be the preference for this move. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: Top 5 for 5 years should be enough to keep that system working. At least that’s probably what the GM’s thought at the GM meetings when they voted for it. I agree that it really should be revisited if it alters the original intention of the system. But that’s another story. But 5 years of super high drafting really should be enough to improve our fortunes considerably. What I suspect hurt us more than losing the lotteries were trading away all our picks for unnecessary pieces. I know you believe Dorsett was necessary but I don’t see how he was in anyway shape or form. He didn’t bring us closer to a cup, only thing he probably did was hurt our draft ranking to be honest. I don’t disagree. We should have kept our second round picks, while in the rebuilding phase. Now though, with this new young core looking so good, it’s time to support them the best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodCanadianKideh Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: Um. Kessel was legit. He was right because I think the pens lose maybe 1 or 2 of their dynasty cups without all the huge goals from Kessel. Miller us nowhere near as top end as Kessel. Kessel was good for the Pens, but he was not a good fit for the Leafs during their rebuild. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Just now, GoodCanadianKideh said: Kessel was good for the Pens, but he was not a good fit for the Leafs during their rebuild. Kessel is a complimentary player. He can't be relied on to do the "heavy lifting". He's good when he has Crosby and Malkin to take the defensive pressure off. He might get good numbers in Arizona, but the team will keep spinning its wheels. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spur1 Posted June 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2019 Can't wait for Aqua to do the right thing and give JB his extension. These JB bash threads are getting to be silly. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, spur1 said: Can't wait for Aqua to do the right thing and give JB his extension. These JB bash threads are getting to be silly. Maybe JB is the one who is not wanting an extension? Aquilini and his meddling might be a cause for guys with experience (which JB now has on every level of management) to steer clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 boy, there sure seems to be a lot of bored peeps on here lately, give it up Jim Benning is not going away, he gets paid the big bucks to run this team, its not like any of us could even pretend to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Lol...come on now. I think overall Benning has done a good job but to classify the Gagner signing as anything but bad is hilarious. Horrible player dealt for a guy we had to buy out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 good luck going forward benji. looking forward to the rest of your rebuild. i for one appreciate your efforts so far. you could have done better but you took a bad situation and have been doing your best to build something we’ll all be proud to call our own. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said: Heck no. Not Burke. He is not the guy to help things in Vancouver. May I ask why you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 My thoughts on this (trading and signings) are early on he seemed to have to add to get his guy, don’t know if it was just a rookie GM thing or he circumstances around each trade ...not McAan and Kassian has dressing room issues ... UFAs are fine IMO, they are always going to be paid for past production and you pay a premium for reliability. LE is the outlier, bad signing I’m sure he regrets. His RFAs so far have all been signed to fair or even team friendly contracts (Horvat), don’t know how well he’s going to do with the core guys given the recent spike in costs for RFAs... Now that the team he’s built is young with a bright future I wonder if the market has changed enough to make it a little less costly for trades and signings in general, for guys that have to waive etc will they come here? Marleau didn’t want to, be choose CAR instead. I definitely hope he’s at least given a chance to manage a team on the rise that he’s built. MG ran the club from a position of power. UFAs lined up for a chance at a cup. Doubt we will be there anytime soon, but sure you get what I mean. Overall id give him a B. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: May I ask why you think that? @Phat Fingers was attacked by a porcupine? Edited June 30, 2019 by Alflives 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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