coastal.view Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 what the past 1 year has clearly shown to nhl fans is that top notch nhl talent require a premium in contract value to play for the leafs this problem, which appears to be on par with what many players require to play for the oilers and jets, is puzzling the centre of the universe is not able to attract quality talent at fair market value contracts is the city that awful to live in? are the fan there that intolerable? is mike babcock that demanding of a coach? is the past half century performance of that franchise that big of a stain? so many quality nhl players are born and raised in ontario and one would think they'd be happy to return "home" to play for the leafs but this really does not appear to be the case despite my comment above, even mcdavid reportedly refused a higher value contract from the oilers and insisted on a team friendly aav of 12.5 million we hear none of this coming from the better leaf players looking for answers here our local team is able to sign good players at team sensible value contracts leafs are not please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Player agents are behind it more than the players I would think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I believe Tavares turned down better contracts to play with the Leafs. As for Marner, Matthews and the other guy, I think the Leafs overpaid, and the agents knew they could make that happen. I have a feeling that wouldn't have been the case if Lamoriello had still been in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 They probably have the richest owners in Canada if not the rest of the league. Also they know they'll have no chance at winning a cup so.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted October 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2019 It's the LOSER LEAFS, so who really cares? Just so long as they suck forever, and their fans suffer, that's all that really matters. #screwtheloserleafsandtheirsmellycity. 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tre Mac said: They probably have the richest owners in Canada if not the rest of the league. Also they know they'll have no chance at winning a cup so.... but statistical odds would indicate all things being equal that in a 30 team league a team should be able to win a cup in a 50 year span and also make it to an additional cup final where they lose the nucks are a prime example of this...3 finals in 50 years, no cup victories yet though and that is with a 30 team league, there were less teams over the past 50 years toronto's success is limited to what? 1 conference final in 50 seasons? rich owners should make little difference now given the salary cap it equalizes the financial things between teams the leafs problem is that in a cap system they are severely hampered having to pay a significant salary premium to retain their best players i appreciate the tavares signing is a little different maybe i should have focused my comments on the rfas drafted and recently re-signed by toronto it is clear that in the nba landscape toronto is not a desired destination maybe the reasons nba players express can be applied to nhl player views about toronto? Edited October 28, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 -lack of anonymity -media intensity -tax -weather 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yung1 Posted October 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2019 I think it's a product of player agents realizing the Dubas has very little negotiating skill. 1 1 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) It's an interesting question. I'm sure that high income tax + cost of living contributes. Will be interesting to see what happens with Petey and Hughes, as well as Brock once his bridge deal is done... Vancouver income tax rate isn't that far behind Ontario and I'm sure cost of living is same or higher. Edit: also there's the "i have to live in Toronto" tax. very important to consider. Edited October 28, 2019 by awalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Yung1 said: I think it's a product of player agents realizing the Dubas has very little negotiating skill. Excellent point. Dubass messed up the Leaf's internal cap with the AM extension and the JT signing. Then he had to over pay for WM and MM. The Leafs are totally screwed going forward. They need to trade AM, but (with the pants down character issue, and his cap hit and coming to UFA so quickly) does AM have a lot of value? Would Arizona trade OEL for AM? I don't think so. Those high cap hits for their four top forwards makes it so those guys would be extremely hard to trade, and get back equal player value. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Heffy Posted October 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2019 Because their GM couldn't negotiate his way to a free donut at Tim Horton's with a coupon. 3 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, awalk said: It's an interesting question. I'm sure that high income tax + cost of living contributes. Will be interesting to see what happens with Petey and Hughes, as well as Brock once his bridge deal is done... Vancouver income tax rate isn't that far behind Ontario and I'm sure cost of living is same or higher. Edit: also there's the "i have to live in Toronto" tax. very important to consider. i agree that those things are not yet known well except for brock perhaps he was a rfa who signed a bridge deal that is very different what the leaf players signed but there does not seem to be the same hardline approach here that is being displayed in toronto and except for marner, who made it clear he really wanted to stay in toronto and still demanded a clear premium to remain there the indications from canucks players is that they really want to be here and appear to really want to play with their team mates again, we are not hearing those sorts of comments coming from players in toronto matthews demanded a contract that results in him being an ufa at the end of that deal and nylander simply left the team and stayed in europe while his team mates played almost 3 months of hockey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Because their GM couldn't negotiate his way to a free donut at Tim Horton's with a coupon. you are saying he'd rather pay 150% of the listed price for the donut before he'd agree to take it ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, coastal.view said: you are saying he'd rather pay 150% of the listed price for the donut before he'd agree to take it ? And he'll even give back his roll up the rim cup. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) I think the rabid media is a big factor. Guys like Matthews and Marner are depicted as Gods, their agents seem to have all the leverage. Matthews got the exact money and term he wanted, it's as if Dubas didn't even negotiate. And because Marner has arguably been just as good (if not better, or at least healthier) he had every right to ask for similar numbers. Can't help but think that Lou would have played hardball and done a much better job at the negotiations than Dubas. His view on hockey was probably more in line with their current coach's, as well. Wouldn't be shocked if there were some major changes if they get bounced early again this year. Edited October 28, 2019 by kanucks25 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, kanucks25 said: I think the rabid media is a big factor. Guys like Matthews and Marner are depicted as Gods, their agents seem to have all the leverage. Can't help but think that Lou would have played hardball and done a much better job at the negotiations than Dubas. His view on hockey was probably more in line with their current coach's, as well. Wouldn't be shocked if there weren't some major changes if they get bounced early again this year. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: I think the rabid media is a big factor. Guys like Matthews and Marner are depicted as Gods, their agents seem to have all the leverage. Matthews got the exact money and term he wanted, it's as if Dubas didn't even negotiate. And because Marner has arguably been just as good (if not better, or at least healthier) he had every right to ask for similar numbers. Can't help but think that Lou would have played hardball and done a much better job at the negotiations than Dubas. His view on hockey was probably more in line with their current coach's, as well. Wouldn't be shocked if there were some major changes if they get bounced early again this year. your views accord with what the majority appear to be saying but this does assume a somewhat distorted business market in toronto why would a sophisticated business entity overpay for player services this same operation runs an nba team as well which has been very prudent with contract values the majority view is that the distortion is due to a rookie gm who can be pushed around but he is overseen by a president and board that would need to approve such massive deals and they are approved seems to me there is in fact more going on and these contract premiums must be due to something else they seem to indicate a reluctance of top young players to re-sign with the leafs without a bump above market value in pay so what is this negative value in the toronto hockey operations that requires a premium payment be made as an enticement so that top young talent will re-sign with the team? Edited October 28, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownky Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Can't help but think that Lou would have played hardball and done a much better job at the negotiations than Dubas. His view on hockey was probably more in line with their current coach's, as well. The Islanders have had Lou for a short time and made huge strides. They have a players coach and an "organizational" GM, where there's an instant identity and players to match that. They look pretty good this year so far, when on paper you might pick them for cellar dweller with a couple great players. Contrast to the Leafs where they're a rudderless team in a storm helmed by an "owner" who bought the boat at above asking and a captain who wanted a different boat. Meanwhile the deckhands are all getting paid mad whether they catch anything or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostsOf1994 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 If a star player goes to either ontario team they are overpaid..... why else would any playetr settle to live in that swamp that's called ontario? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenspear Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, coastal.view said: is the city that awful to live in? are the fan there that intolerable? is mike babcock that demanding of a coach? is the past half century performance of that franchise that big of a stain? I haven't been to toronto, but I would assume so based on what I've heard from people who lived there. Yes, the fans are epicly terrible, but I'm sure you already knew that. All pro sports coaches are demanding. Longest skidmark in NHL history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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