A Tale of Two Bennings

[IBatch]

Enjoyed this read.   Without our past under JB we wouldn’t be enjoying one of the best starts ever.   Maybe he was a mad genius and fooled us all with his “team of Granlunds.”  In the end the Sedins retired and the new team arrived right away.   Awesome.  What’s also awesome is seeing guys that were critical (and fairly so) turn around and join in on the fun.   Wonder how the Gaurdian feels about things now...

[Nuxfanabroad]

Thread has legs, cos' JB understands JB.

[Dr. Crossbar]

27 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Maybe he was a mad genius and fooled us all with his “team of Granlunds.”

The way I see it, people were fooled. He was literally putting in higher caliber placeholders and reclamations to meet the "competitive" quotient. He was experimenting! That's what mad geniuses do! 

 

The team of Granlunds were a bridge to the future. As were Megna and Chaput. It was all temporary yet being judged as if they were permanent pieces.

 

Early on Benning set a new standard with guys like Hutton, Baertschi, Granlund ... they took us to the next level over the Corrados and Shinkaruks. Benning didn't settle for that level of talent and made unpopular moves. 

 

And yeah, Prust didn't work out nor did guys like Etem ... but look at how pivotal Ryan Miller was in the transition and to Markstrom's development. 

 

Benning was indeed mad genius'ing this thing together and he should be given more respect!

Edited November 5, 2019 by Dr. Crossbar
.

[MrCanuck94]

4 hours ago, RonMexico said:

Disagree on this point.

 

You learn on the job as AGM. Then when you take over, you already know all the ins and outs. Granted his mentor was clearly suspect but you don't fall backwards into a Cup.

 

I do agree that learning by doing is a fundamental aspect of human activity but in this case, I think doesn't 100% apply. There are a few things you will learn on your own but by and large you gotta have a really good idea if you were an AGM first.

 

To my eyes, I saw a team in disarray and he tried to plug the holes of a sinking ship. Sure there were more misses than hits in the early going but that's par for the course in this business.

Disagree. Assuming that the structure follows general business roles and responsibilities, an AGM in this circumstance is not shadowing the GM to take over as a succession plan while they are on the job therefore they are not learning GM duties first hand (other circumstance being the AGM needing to shadow the current GM due to them leaving/retiring, therefore needing to understand the job of a GM thoroughly). They have their own set of duties. Yes they are aware of the GM's duties but personally I would assume that until one is in that position with the pressure and responsibilities to make those decisions, it cannot count as experience. I agree that they get an idea of the job however, but actually doing the job is its own beast.

[FijianCanuck]

I think the real genius is the real JB.. Judd Brackett

[MrCanuck94]

HFBoards is crazy, there is a tank thread and just posts in general have the vibe of wanting this team to fail. It seems they would rather lose the opportunity to win a Stanley Cup if it meant that it would have JB fired, ridiculous. Many of them have lost touch with reality.

 

I never agreed with JB's strategy fully, but I understood what he was doing. He may not be the strongest GM out there, but he has a great hockey mind and knows how he wants his team to look. His drafting ability along with putting together a strong staff is great too. It's great that he's learning on the job and hopefully it means sustained success for us moving forward.

 

[Dazzle]

4 hours ago, RonMexico said:

Disagree on this point.

 

You learn on the job as AGM. Then when you take over, you already know all the ins and outs. Granted his mentor was clearly suspect but you don't fall backwards into a Cup.

 

I do agree that learning by doing is a fundamental aspect of human activity but in this case, I think doesn't 100% apply. There are a few things you will learn on your own but by and large you gotta have a really good idea if you were an AGM first.

 

To my eyes, I saw a team in disarray and he tried to plug the holes of a sinking ship. Sure there were more misses than hits in the early going but that's par for the course in this business.

This doesn't make sense because as a GM, you're CONSTANTLY learning. One of the things he must have learned is how FAST the game has become. I don't agree that you don't learn as a GM.

[hammertime]

I think he's in tough (JB)

 

It takes huevos to say hey Frankie we bout to flip this switch member those top 5 picks we been playing for the bast few seasons ya were done with that sh.. And to prove it I'm a trade one of the next 2. 

 

 I still don't think this team is as good as the record suggests however where credit is due I have to respect the man and I cheer for him to succeed.    

[ilduce39]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

The way I see it, people were fooled. He was literally putting in higher caliber placeholders and reclamations to meet the "competitive" quotient. He was experimenting! That's what mad geniuses do! 

 

The team of Granlunds were a bridge to the future. As were Megna and Chaput. It was all temporary yet being judged as if they were permanent pieces.

 

Early on Benning set a new standard with guys like Hutton, Baertschi, Granlund ... they took us to the next level over the Corrados and Shinkaruks. Benning didn't settle for that level of talent and made unpopular moves. 

 

And yeah, Prust didn't work out nor did guys like Etem ... but look at how pivotal Ryan Miller was in the transition and to Markstrom's development. 

 

Benning was indeed mad genius'ing this thing together and he should be given more respect!

Agreed.  Critics played (play) both ends of the coin when it comes to Benning.  

 

The team was never good enough and because of that the drafting wasn’t good enough because... if the team isn’t good, you should be all in on the tank/draft strategy.  
 

What JB did from day one was try to improve the team.  Not at all costs - he kept his 1sts and most of his picks - but the “sea of granlunds” ensured we had enough internal competition that we wouldn’t rush guys like we did with Virt and McCann.  He kept trying to cycle high character guys though the room.  He never let the team use the “rebuilding” excuse to stop trying to win. 
 

This is hopefully the season our top end talent finally caught up to the culture being cultivated.  We don’t have any outlier players.  No problem children.  Just a good, solid team that plays the right way.  
 

That’s not a fluke or accident and despite all of JB’s well documented missteps, I think (along with drafting, obviously) it’s the big difference between us being relevant for our young core’s prime and stumbling for a few more seasons trying to find that identity.  
 

Of course, I’m biased because I’ve been pushing that angle for awhile... but it’s feeling pretty good right now.

[JamesB]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Great, interesting thread. 

 

Most expensive rebuild ever. 

All part of the plan... that’s where my perspective will differ from most on here. 

 

I can forgive all of it because JB changed the character and style of play/players on the Canucks and for that, I graciously bow in respect. 

 

I like the style of game being played way more than I did the Sedin years, for instance. This franchise is no longer mired in disrespect and the circus routine it had become. 

 

Two Bennings is right, the one who listened to his boss and the other who was given the green light, I assume. 

 

I love this team. 

I wasn't going to say this, but I was thinking it. The 2011 Canucks were a great team, The Sedins were great but so were Edler, Hammer, Ehrhoff, Burrows, and others. And the Lu-Schneider combo in net was great. But I like the style of the current team better. It has more speed and more toughness, and I really like the way they play. As I have mentioned before, Henrik is the greatest Canuck of all time but EP is ahead on a pro-rated basis and I think he will surpass Henrik.  And I like Horvat way better than Kesler. I also like the fact that every line has some toughness. 

 

44 minutes ago, FijianCanuck said:

I think the real genius is the real JB.. Judd Brackett

Great point. I was going to mention Judd Brackett in the OP. I do not really know the split between Brackett and Benning in terms of decision-making, but from the brief draft videos we have seen and various interviews it seems like Brackett calls a lot of the shots. I am surprised he has not been given a promotion to AGM. I think the Canucks are very fortunate to have him. However, I think he has also learned a few things from Benning. Anyway, they seem to work well together. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by JamesB

[Ghostsof1915]

It was the best of times....it was the blurst of times.....

[fanfor42]

Hey OP the only thing that matters is the teams record this year.  Next year the only thing that matters is the teams record next year.  

Analysis of what coulda shoulda woulda over the past 4 years becomes as meaningful as termites living in a tree now. Bunch of wriggling. 

Proof is in the pudding. I'm not wrong. 

[Westcoasting]

4 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Supposedly that's because he burned a lot of bridges as a player agent before he became GM.

 

I don't blame Mike Gillis for having to deal with that BS during his tenure, but I do think he mishandled the coaching (keeping AV too long) and goaltending (letting Luongo languish) situations for which he deserved to be canned.

Its because he continually asked too much in a one sided trade... it takes two to tango!

[Nucksfollower1983]

2 hours ago, Unknown1995 said:

I totally agree. 

 

I think things could have gone really sideways considering how bad MG was at drafting and that our players were on the older side. MG basically left Benning very little to work with, (with the exception of Horvat and Markstrom).

 

Benning has done a really good job drafting in the last three years and trading for good young players. He totally deserves a lot of the credit for picks such as Petey, Hughes, Demko and Boeser. Also some good news is that ownership is really buying into what Benning is doing and not pressuring him to "WIN NOW" like at the start of Benning's tenure. This is why I think he had to sign Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata at the start. You can read the letter ownership sent out to season ticket holders and evidently see that ownership and Benning are on the same page which is always good to see. 

 

If things continue like they are right now, we might start selling out games again and many fans will jump back on bandwagon. In BC, 80% of the fans are bandwagon fans so that's a big deal. 

have you done research to prove this or are you just pulling "facts" out of your ass?

Edited November 5, 2019 by Nucksfollower1983

[King Heffy]

21 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Agreed.  Critics played (play) both ends of the coin when it comes to Benning.  

 

The team was never good enough and because of that the drafting wasn’t good enough because... if the team isn’t good, you should be all in on the tank/draft strategy.  
 

What JB did from day one was try to improve the team.  Not at all costs - he kept his 1sts and most of his picks - but the “sea of granlunds” ensured we had enough internal competition that we wouldn’t rush guys like we did with Virt and McCann.  He kept trying to cycle high character guys though the room.  He never let the team use the “rebuilding” excuse to stop trying to win. 
 

This is hopefully the season our top end talent finally caught up to the culture being cultivated.  We don’t have any outlier players.  No problem children.  Just a good, solid team that plays the right way.  
 

That’s not a fluke or accident and despite all of JB’s well documented missteps, I think (along with drafting, obviously) it’s the big difference between us being relevant for our young core’s prime and stumbling for a few more seasons trying to find that identity.  
 

Of course, I’m biased because I’ve been pushing that angle for awhile... but it’s feeling pretty good right now.

You summed up how I feel a hell of a lot more eloquently than me.  And we still have a LOT more good players ready to force their way onto the team.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Nucksfollower1983 said:

have you done research to prove this or are you just pulling "facts" out of your ass?

A ESPN article ranked us 12th in regards to the BandWagon effect. Also from my experience a lot of people in Vancouver tend to tune in only when the team makes the playoffs. 

 

The people on this board are not in any way indicative of that though. I should rephrase the statement to "There are a lot of bandwagon fans in Vancouver". 

[TGokou]

20 minutes ago, Nucksfollower1983 said:

have you done research to prove this or are you just pulling "facts" out of your ass?

96.5% of "facts" are made up..

[Nucksfollower1983]

7 minutes ago, Unknown1995 said:

A ESPN article ranked us 12th in regards to the BandWagon effect. Also from my experience a lot of people in Vancouver tend to tune in only when the team makes the playoffs. 

 

The people on this board are not in any way indicative of that though. I should rephrase the statement to "There are a lot of bandwagon fans in Vancouver". 

You should. There are a lot of bandwagon fans in any market for any sport. Never saw the ESPN article, what was their criteria?

[Nucksfollower1983]

Just now, TGokou said:

96.5% of "facts" are made up..

can confirm this 100%

[Timråfan]

Drafting is Bennings best tool. 

Regarding how the team is configurated it's like Benning has been on this forum and took the best ideas here. 

If Benning learns the diplomatic skills needed for a GM he can be great.